How did you discover K&C? (1 Viewer)

[binder001]

Re: Louis, it's me again...

Hi Louis, sorry to badger you about this BUT, go to:

http://www.knox.army.mil/center/ocoa/ArmorMag/

This is the homepage for Armor magazine, it's THE professional magazine for Armor officers in the US Army. At the lower left, under "back issues", click on "2001", click on "September-October", download that issue and read the article "Tank Myths" by Charles M. Baily on pages 36-38. He addresses EXACTLY what we were discussing, starting on page 37, with full references and annotations. If you read that, then I promise not to waste any more of your valuable bandwidth on this and I'll go back to talking about my toy soldiers.

Gary Binder

 

[Louis Badolato]

Dear Gary,

I read the article you recommended. In discussing (correctly) that the Christie suspension was not the only reason the T34 was a great tank, the article claimed that the M4 Sherman was equal to, not inferior, to the T34. Without going into the details in the article itself that show how ridiculous that claim is (the superior speed, track width, sloped armor, lower profile and higher velocity 76mm gun of the T34) I read on to the point about Belton Cooper. I then pulled out my copy of Belton Cooper's book (pages 22-28) and compared. Your article claims that Belton Cooper cites to two "excellent biographies" of Patton in support of his assertions, and that Cooper refers to events in 1943 shortly after the slapping incident. Neither of these assertions is correct. First, his report on the demonstration at Tidesworth Downs, according to Cooper, is based on the first hand reports of his fellow maintenance officers from the 3rd Armored Division, who, being stationed at nearby Codford St. Mary, were involved in the tests, and who told him what happened immediately after the tests. There is no reference to the two biographies of Patton. Second, the demonstration at Tidesworth Downs occurred in January, 1944, not as the article claims, in mid-1943, shortly after the slapping incident. Patton had long since skated off the thin ice, and was by this time actively involved in the very important misinformation compaign to convince the Germans he was commanding an invasion force ready to attack Callais. The post records of Tidesworth Downs reference that the demonstration took place in January 1944 as Cooper claims. The article you cite to appeared, quite frankly, to be the kind of revisionist history it accuses Cooper's book of being. It completely lost credibility with me when it alleged that the Sherman was the equal of the T34. One of my best friends, United States Army Captain Christopher Sybert, a gulf war veteran who taught and will soon again be teaching armor tactics at Fort Knox, when he returns from a tour in South Korea in a couple of months, laughed when he received my e-mail about this assertion. As to its reference to the Korean War, the United States was using the "Super Sherman" by then, a totally redesigned version of the Sherman which was upgunned, uparmored, and had a totally different motor and suspension system. Not really an accurate basis for a comparison. Sorry, but I remain unconvinced.

 

[Warbuff26]

All I wanted was a Patton Command Car for my desk...I swear!!

 

[jazzeum]

Slightly off the mark, but a couple of these Patton cars sold a the recent Valley Forge show for $100 each . No, I'm not kidding.

 

[binder001]

Louis,

Thanks for reading the article. I think that we'll just have to agree to disagree. I do respect you for having a well thought out and for having done some research on your position. Someday if I get to OTSN we'll have to meet for an adult beverage and continue this in person.

Gary

 

[Louis Badolato]

Gary,

I look forward to that. As I mentioned to a friend of mine while discussing the circumstances, I wish there was some documentation to review about what really happened at Tidesworth Downs. In a sense, while Cooper's sources claim to be first hand, the whole discussion is really hearsay, which is not necessarily the most appropriate means of drawing conclusions about a national hero like Patton.

See you at the show,

Louis

 

[Fullyautomatic]

Well I'm finally back to internet access after the move and boy there was a lot of Forum reading to catch up on.Welcome to a few new members and old members from the other board that have come over.Great to have you all here.
K&C was discovered by me through e-bay by chance.After purchaseing some Britians sets I found a couple of Arnhem K&C pieces.At the time the prices were still affordable and I won them.The rest is history.Linking up with Maitland's Toy Soldiers in Canada I found a dealer that was close to my old stompin grounds.On a visit to my parents back in Ontario I met Ron at his store and seeing his display of K&C I quickly bought a few more sets.Moving farther into the states,shipping charges were starting to really be costly.Prior to the 2003 OTSN show an online search found me TreeFrog Treasures which provided an answer to my shipping woes($4 any size order).I finally got to meet Shannon and Pete at the show and I also met George from Minuteman.Two great dealers that provide great customer service and along with fine products.Last year I got to meet Gary(gK)and his wife at the OTSN show.I was lucky Gary had to leave early or he would have had me spend more of my money.Actually, Gary has helped me establish alot of what I have today in terms of retired items.Thanks buddy!
Please don't jump all over me when I make this comment but could we please try and stick to the topics of toy soldiers in this forum.I guess thats why I had come to this new board because the other board was starting to turn into a political point of view of who new more or who was right and who was wrong.Granted everyone has their own opinion but lets stick to the topic of collecting toy soldiers.We need to keep the interest of Andy and the rest of the major players here at this forum.Like I said try not to put me in front of the firing squad for saying this.
Out of ammo...

 

[johngambale]

My Dad was a Paratrooper at the Bulge, with the Fame 101st " Screaming Eagles ",502nd Infantry, and he told me that many Sherman Tanks were Deathtraps; and was no Contender against the Panther's, and the Tiger's! But when the M-18's came into the War things start to change in favor of the Americans! My Dad had Destroyed a Panzer IV Tank, from the Rear, using a Bazooka! I told Andy, that he's the Figure in BA02-( Bazooka Handler ), and got awarded the Silver Star, along with saving a Comrade under heavy Pinned down German Machine Gun fire! The Person who my Dad saved was a Son, of a very Rich Furniture Company Conglomerate in the USA! Thank God, My Dad is 82 Years Old and still kicking! I'm very Proud of him!

 

[jazzeum]

I think politics creeping into some discussions, based on my experience with other boards (jazz) is inevitable and it's not such a bad thing as long as it doesn't get too raucous. Actually what I saw Louis and Gary discussing was not politics but history and I, for one, found the whole thing enlightening.

 

[Fullyautomatic]

I think politics creeping into some discussions, based on my experience with other boards (jazz) is inevitable and it's not such a bad thing as long as it doesn't get too raucous. Actually what I saw Louis and Gary discussing was not politics but history and I, for one, found the whole thing enlightening.

I agree with your comment and am not totally opposed to good debates or topics on history.I just don't want this board to start to stray into a I'm right,your wrong kind of thing.I love to hear stories from veterns or factual information on the history of war.Maybe that could be started in a brand new thread.My job affords me the opportunity to speak with many WWII vets and some love to talk about their stories and others just don't.I should start taping some of their conversations,its amazing what they have to tell...
Anyways once again I didn't mean to offend anyone(Gary,Louis,Jazz or others).Please keep me in the Band of Brothers

 

[Njja]

My daughter graduated from Law School in 2000 and got a job in New York City. On a trip to visit her I discoved King & Country in a small shop on Sullivan St in the Village. Some of the early stuff was a little crude but other items were terrific. I couldn't find it anywhere else for a couple of years until I found this nice site. Now 85 sets later I'm going strong.
JA

 

[bsager]

I came across my first K&C set 4 1/2 years ago sitting on the net one night while my wife was out. My life was changed from that day on.

I have just about every set from Arnhem froward and am now starting on the earlier wooden tanks and planes. That will take forever
Any sellers out there?

Thanks,
Bill Sager

 

[Louis Badolato]

Nija, When you come to New York to visit your daughter, please contact me, I would love to take you out to dinner, introduce you to the local collectors, and show you some of my collection. By the way, my wife and I are both attorneys here in New York. I do appeals, and my wife is a medical malpractice defense attorney representing physicians.

 

[Njja]

Why thank you very much Louis, I will certainly take you up on your kind offer. My Daughter Heather Adivari and son-in-law Robert Riva and both real estate attorneys with DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Kerry on Ave of the Americas in the city. I'll drop you a note when we come back up. We just spent a week house sitting for them a short time ago.
We plan to relocate shortly back to New Jersey, my daughter lives in Princeton. I would love to meet you and some of the other collectors after 30 years in the deep south I can't wait to come HOME!
John A

 

[LASHLC]

I collect Conte civil war sets. One day I saw a ad in our neighborhood
paper from a local toy soldier dealer. I went to his store looking to add
to my Conte collection. In the store he had all of the current King and
Country world war 2 sets at that time. I was amazed at the quality
of those sets. When I left the store I had three King and Country sets
(WS32, DD27, AK23) and no Conte.

That was 3-16-04. Since that day I have acquired 96 King and Country
sets all world war 2 with 42 of them retired sets versus 4 Conte
civil war figures. I still collect Conte civil war but it is definitely on the
back burner to King and Country.

 

[jazzeum]

John,

I would love to meet you as well. I also live in NJ about 45 from Princeton so I look forward to your coming up to NYC.

 

[glossman]

*
I found this old thread while doing a search on the forum.

The title of the thread is rather interesting, as are some of the posts.

So one day, the newbies will also say..........and the rest is history.

Raymond.

 

[Desertkiwi]

Nice thread mate, thanks for re-igniting it!!

My first intro to K&C was winning a set from the Toy Soldier magazine, which was donated by Bill Sager of "Sager's Soldiers" in the US. That was back in early 2004. I can't thank both the magazine and Bill enough!!

It was truly a magic moment when out of the blue this fantastic set (SF4) Special Forces, suddenly arrived in my PO Box with absolutely no warning.

The 4x figures still sit pride of place in my small but very full display case.

Till then K&C were just to expensive to even contemplate purchasing.

However having seen them first hand, i thought stuff it and ended up selling off most of my Britains plastic collection.

The rest is history.....

Cheers Toddy

 

[hoogri]

I discover K&C on at the londonshow but i collect only britain and taw.
In the year 1999 i buy my first K&C set at a toyshow at the Netherlands .
It was the set DD 22 Patton Command Car Set

richard .

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I had been collecting Minichamps 1:35 tanks, Corgi 1:50 armour and finally 1:72 Dragon. But Minichamps introduction of new vehicles was very slow and after a few years of good production, Corgi virtually stopped making armour. Dragon just did one repaint after another, and I wasn't too happy with 1:72. I liked the Minichamps 1:35 size the most. So I had virtually stopped collecting tanks when a friend mentioned the King & Country collection. So I began collecting only the few armour pieces I really liked - no figures or dioramas.

Terry