How far is too far? (1 Viewer)

[Spitfrnd]

...."...So how to explain the relatively colder winters we've had in the latter half of this decade? Goddard attributes them to La Niña, a cyclical pattern of cold sea-surface temperatures in the Pacific Ocean. La Niña in the first half of 2008, followed by a neutral period in the latter half, likely had something to do with it, Heim says, but adds that global warming is about long-term, rising temperature trends over time. "It's kind of like a drunk driver," Heim says. "The car is weaving back and forth, but it's still progressing forward."
.."

Well he is entitled to his opinion, as long as he does not impose his view on others. I guess he won't be signing this petition of scientists then.
http://www.oism.org/pproject/

 

[Scott]

Now I gotta straighten Confederate reenactors on Darwin.

I hope not. It's flawed.

"The National Academy of Sciences has objected strenuously to the format of the paper, on the grounds that the Petition Project deliberately used the NAS Proceedings format to create the impression that the NAS was involved. However, the Proceedings format has headers and footers clearly identifying the publication; the circulated paper contained no suggestion at all that it was associated with the NAS."


http://www.energyadvocate.com/petiproj.htm



Global Climate Coalition

Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine

The Marshall Institute co-sponsored with the OISM a deceptive campaign -- known as the Petition Project -- to undermine and discredit the scientific authority of the IPCC and to oppose the Kyoto Protocol. Early in the spring of 1998, thousands of scientists around the country received a mass mailing urging them to sign a petition calling on the government to reject the Kyoto Protocol. The petition was accompanied by other pieces including an article formatted to mimic the journal of the National Academy of Sciences. Subsequent research revealed that the article had not been peer-reviewed, nor published, nor even accepted for publication in that journal and the Academy released a strong statement disclaiming any connection to this effort and reaffirming the reality of climate change. The Petition resurfaced in 2001.

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warmin...rming_contrarians/global-warming-skeptic.html

 

[nmrocks]

http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second...old-winter-doesnt-mean-global-warm-2009-02-12


"..Global warming is responsible for the overall upward temperature trend, and any snow outside our window shouldn’t convince us that Earth has stopped heating up, says Richard Heim, an NCDC meteorologist. "Most of the top 10 warmest years have happened in the last decade and a half," Heim tells ScientificAmerican.com. "Global warming does not mean every year will be warmer than the previous year. Global warming means there's an increasing frequency of warmer temperatures and a decreasing frequency of cooler temperatures, and that’s definitely what we're seeing.".."



"...So how to explain the relatively colder winters we've had in the latter half of this decade? Goddard attributes them to La Niña, a cyclical pattern of cold sea-surface temperatures in the Pacific Ocean. La Niña in the first half of 2008, followed by a neutral period in the latter half, likely had something to do with it, Heim says, but adds that global warming is about long-term, rising temperature trends over time. "It's kind of like a drunk driver," Heim says. "The car is weaving back and forth, but it's still progressing forward."
.."

Scott,
Respectfully, I still don't buy it, all it takes is one large volcanic event and the debris in the atmosphere cools the earth for years.
#2 the data they base these "heating trends on are based on technological equipment that until recently was barbaric at best and I question the reliability of records from 1898.
#3 the earth is Billions of years old and we say in twenty years we know it all? Remember, as late as 1979 these same know it alls predicted the next ice age.
I believe in the earth, not in mans predictions to back there self importance.

 

[Scott]

Thanks. I remember the "global cooling" of 79 too. Without hashing it all out here, I've been impressed by the science. Throwing self-satisfied jokes at Al Gore doesn't advance anything.

The EPA has data going back millenia so there must be methods of gathering it.

http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/pastcc.html

NOAA seems to able to take measurable data.

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html

The issue seems to covered in Scientific American.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=science-behind-climate-change


So now I'm going back to the CW Reenactor's Forum to straighten out the Confederates.

 

[Gideon]

Scott,
Respectfully, I still don't buy it, all it takes is one large volcanic event and the debris in the atmosphere cools the earth for years.
#2 the data they base these "heating trends on are based on technological equipment that until recently was barbaric at best and I question the reliability of records from 1898.
#3 the earth is Billions of years old and we say in twenty years we know it all? Remember, as late as 1979 these same know it alls predicted the next ice age.
I believe in the earth, not in mans predictions to back there self importance.

In the early 1990's there was a large eruption. One of the stated effetcts was that the debries would have a cooling effect on the planet.

I still think there is an increase in eratic weather patterns. Whether or not it has to do with cars, hairspary bottles and other emissions I do not know.

What I do know is that R&D into affordable ways to produce more environmentally friendly products and working on renewable fuel sources which move us away from having to give money to those who hate us and which creates new industries, new jobs, new incomes, new things to tax which will create revenue is a good thing. We can do it and it is being done. It just needs that kickstart to bring prices down and expand expertise. Other countries are well ahead of this. We just 8 years of pathetic government sponsored R&D.

Our way of life has got to be more flexible than just free market. Free market doesn't innovate unless it is helped by government and when the you know what hits the fan it's the government which may be the only "industry" able to spend while we re-tool the industries that keep our country moving. Even when companies are given money to re-tool and push advancements they tend not to. Remember Fiber? Telecom companies got money to move from copper to fiberoptic cable - billions. They have yet to convert much of the lines to fiber and actually charge us for the work being done. We already paid for it. This was back in the late 1990's, by the way.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Wow you guys are having the global warming debate again...

Well Ray ya know where I stand already so I'll spare you the usual wall of text.

 

[Combat]

I must say I feel like I'm living a George Orwell novel these days, all media is barely a step up from the National Enquirer! When did news become "All Politics All the Time!). All news is given thru the filter of opionion and you can't turn on any TV in the states, be it entertainment or news without seeing the shining face of our new leader.
Seriously, I think Goebbels would be busting his buttons with pride about the propaganda machine that is passed off as news these days.
Frankly I've given up on it all,
Ray

The big difference between our media and 1984 or the nazis is that there is no one behind this trend. It results from having numerous 24-hr news shows competing against each other with a lot of time to fill. They need ratings. So they dumb it down with hot babe anchors, stories about missing hot babes, live car chases from LA, over-the-top loud mouths, scandal etc. It becomes a race to the bottom on its own initiative.

 

[Louis Badolato]

Wow you guys are having the global warming debate again...

Well Ray ya know where I stand already so I'll spare you the usual wall of text.

Whether or not there is global warming, I can't imagine that requiring less polution won't benefit humans in some way, be it limiting cancer causing agents, cutting down on lung problems, not messing up the ecosystem or killing off parts of the food chain. Not to mention the fact that reducing our dependence on imported oil would certainly open up new and improved foreign policy options. So whether or not the jury is still out on global warming, I, the father of two young children to whom I would like to proffer an earth worth inheriting, prefer to act as though it is an established fact.

 

[nmrocks]

Wow you guys are having the global warming debate again...

Well Ray ya know where I stand already so I'll spare you the usual wall of text.

CS! Good to hear from you, you are an honorable man, I know we'll never agree on this subject, I'm just a little incensed right now as it looks like now this end of the world global warming junk looks like it going to cost trillions of dollars (going to fat cats like AlGore) and kill tens of 1000's of jobs and it won't make a bit of difference except to the life style of life of those that can afford it least.
All these people who advocate this and say we have to pay for it still fly around in private jets and heat there 10,000 sq. foot houses and olympic size swimming pools, it means nothing to them but it's a major hit to the wallet of the working man.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Whether or not there is global warming, I can't imagine that requiring less polution won't benefit humans in some way, be it limiting cancer causing agents, cutting down on lung problems, not messing up the ecosystem or killing off parts of the food chain. .....

Those are noble and worthwhile goals Louis. Unfortunately, the actions proposed to "attempt" to "positively affect" global warming go for beyond those goals and at Ray eloquently notes, are more likely to just cause economic dislocation and income redistribution for no good purpose. Yes CS we know where you stand. Pity though Ray that you had to mention Al Gore; it is too soon after breakfast and much too close to lunch for me.

 

[L Flowers]

Hey!! Don't bash King Hypocrite Al Gore. He invented the internet and without it, we wouldn't be able to have this great bulletin board.

 

[Spitfrnd]

Hey!! Don't bash King Hypocrite Al Gore. He invented the internet and without it, we wouldn't be able to have this great bulletin board.

Good point Larry, all due apologies to the King.

 

[kilted vampire]

I love it when someone tells me I can not say something. I give them the look and remind them of freedom of speech.

"I may not like what you say but will defend your right to say it to the death."