I think GREY will sell. (1 Viewer)

wayne556517 said:
I know Andy isn't a fan but if these are anything to go on,GREY will walk out the door...................^&grin

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120812687726?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120812729267?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Item # 120812687726 and 120812729267
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So how long were you drooling over the pic's on ebay wayne? My money is on 30 minutes each! {sm4}

Even though im not a big fan of grey either (unless winterized), they look good.

Tom
 
TomNT said:
So how long were you drooling over the pic's on ebay wayne? My money is on 30 minutes each! {sm4}

Even though im not a big fan of grey either (unless winterized), they look good.

Tom
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They have both been on before and yep had a few looks and a few plans to grab them,but i have something in the works will post pics when its done.............:)
And im pretty confident a GREY Opel is on its way,cant sat to much......:wink2::wink2:
 
Surprised they did not sell the first time!!! Grey is the best for AFV's IMO
Mitch
 
Not so fast. The period grey was in use is quite short - far shorter than many people think. Solid grey came into use in late 1939 and it was factory applied. But many of the Panzer I and Panzer II and even the early Panzer III and Panzer IV built in 1939 and earlier were 75% dark grey and 25% dark brown or dark Green. In February 1943, the Dark Grey was replaced by dark yellow. So dark grey was the base colour for only a little more than 3 years 1940, 1941 and 1942. However, in Spring 1942, AFVs sent to southern Russia were painted in tropical colours and many of the all grey vehicles in central and northern Russia had field applied dark brown or dark green camo patches.

So you might want to consider whether your AFV should really be all grey before you get the brush out. If you looked closely, I'll bet many of the grey AFVs by K&C and the AFVs people have been repainting weren't all grey at all.


Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
Not so fast. The period grey was in use is quite short - far shorter than many people think. Solid grey came into use in late 1939 and it was factory applied. But many of the Panzer I and Panzer II and even the early Panzer III and Panzer IV built in 1939 and earlier were 75% dark grey and 25% dark brown or dark Green. In February 1943, the Dark Grey was replaced by dark yellow. So dark grey was the base colour for only a little more than 3 years 1940, 1941 and 1942. However, in Spring 1942, AFVs sent to southern Russia were painted in tropical colours and many of the all grey vehicles in central and northern Russia had field applied dark brown or dark green camo patches.

So you might want to consider whether your AFV should really be all grey before you get the brush out. If you looked closely, I'll bet many of the grey AFVs by K&C and the AFVs people have been repainting weren't all grey at all.


Terry
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It snows in France...................^&grin
 
I like grey AFVs as much as anyone, but there were far fewer all grey AFVs than people think, especially in France 1940 when most were 25% dark brown or green or in 1942 Russia when they had field applied brown/green patches over the grey. Many Ausf. of AFVs were never all grey. So IMO, too much all grey is just as bad as not enough all grey AFVs.

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
I like grey AFVs as much as anyone, but there were far fewer all grey AFVs than people think, especially in France 1940 when most were 25% dark brown or green or in 1942 Russia when they had field applied brown/green patches over the grey. Many Ausf. of AFVs were never all grey. So IMO, too much all grey is just as bad as not enough all grey AFVs.

Terry
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What proportion of Panzer IV's were Grey then Terry?

Rob
 
Rob said:
What proportion of Panzer IV's were Grey then Terry?

Rob
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Panzer IV is a good example to use as they were produced from before the war right through the war to the end and had many Ausf. Less than 20% were all grey. Of 8900 Panzer IV, less than 300 were pre 1940 and were grey with brown/green camo (Ausf A-D).. Just under 2000 P IV were produced 1940 - 1942 in the all grey era, but some of them had desert camo and many of the Russian front ones had field applied brown or green patches. This is when all of the all of the Ausf E, F1 and F2 and some of the Ausf G. were produced so if you want an all grey P IV, it should be from these Ausf. During 1943- 1945 had 75% of the P IV produced (most Ausf G and all Ausf H and J) and grey was no longer a base colour.

It really is amazing how few AFVs were all grey, especially if you consider the pre-war AFVs were grey & brown/green and 1942 AFVs in Russia had brown/green field applied. And consider 75% of AFVs on average were produced after base yellow replaced grey in Feb 1943. The most likely place to have all Grey AFVs was in France in 1940 and Russia in the first year or two of Barbarossa.

Terry
 
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Blowtorch said:
I don't think I've seen any grey repaint that was a mistake; I'm not seeing your point
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The point is that only about 20% of German AFVs were all grey and many Ausf of AFVs were never all grey or had any grey camo. Something like 75% of german AFVs were produced 1943-1945 when grey was no longer used as a base colour. The first Tigers were produced in 1942 were all grey (some had field applied disruptive camo), but mid-production and late-production Tigers were not.

Terry
 
Personally on the topic of Grey id like to see some plain grey uniformed waffen SS infantry men- the smocks and camo jackets
much like what this custom 1/6 scale figure is wearing.Waffen-SS_03.jpg
 
Terry....

What is the source you are using foir the disruptive camo patterns over grey?? I also have stuff relating to field applied camo but, many of the AFV's that I have looked at and, repainted were all grey. The Grey area is a strange one as many documents state that grey was being phased out or, not used at all, yet, the pictures tell another story. I spoke with a friend recently who works for the german archives who sent me a lot of stuff on the Jagdpanther as I am undertaking two repaints. some of the first tanks dispatched to the training depot were supposed to be in grey. He has found some factory records which now back this up that they were transported in grey. The question why they did this is yet to be found but, its down that they did. He has photo's from what he said look grey but, they are not yet pinpointed down to that particular time. I mean, even with colourways for this AFV there is arguments. Was there a base coat dunkelgelb with no camo patterns used some say yes some say no. For me, as a painter, a grey Jagdtiger would look stunning and far better than the camo versions

I agree that a lot had dunkelgelb camo on top of grey and, others had brown and green applied but, I thought this varied from tank to tank and unit to unit.

Its interesting this topic coming up as I am repainting some tigers this camo colour and done some work on colours The famous ''Tiki'' Tiger 1 has been stated by some as a brown base coat with dunkelgelb camo and, others as a grey basecoat and, a dunkelgelb camo

The books even the most respected (or seen as) often contradict each other and, the records sometimes don't help when added.

It is an intersting area and, one that causes me lots of extra work!!!!
Mitch
 
Mitch said:
Terry....

What is the source you are using foir the disruptive camo patterns over grey?? I also have stuff relating to field applied camo but, many of the AFV's that I have looked at and, repainted were all grey. The Grey area is a strange one as many documents state that grey was being phased out or, not used at all, yet, the pictures tell another story. I spoke with a friend recently who works for the german archives who sent me a lot of stuff on the Jagdpanther as I am undertaking two repaints. some of the first tanks dispatched to the training depot were supposed to be in grey. He has found some factory records which now back this up that they were transported in grey. The question why they did this is yet to be found but, its down that they did. He has photo's from what he said look grey but, they are not yet pinpointed down to that particular time. I mean, even with colourways for this AFV there is arguments. Was there a base coat dunkelgelb with no camo patterns used some say yes some say no. For me, as a painter, a grey Jagdtiger would look stunning and far better than the camo versions

I agree that a lot had dunkelgelb camo on top of grey and, others had brown and green applied but, I thought this varied from tank to tank and unit to unit.

Its interesting this topic coming up as I am repainting some tigers this camo colour and done some work on colours The famous ''Tiki'' Tiger 1 has been stated by some as a brown base coat with dunkelgelb camo and, others as a grey basecoat and, a dunkelgelb camo

The books even the most respected (or seen as) often contradict each other and, the records sometimes don't help when added.

It is an intersting area and, one that causes me lots of extra work!!!!
Mitch
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Snippets from various sources - no single major piece of work. The one that sticks in my mind is Panzer Colours in Auchtung Panzer. The adding of dark brown or green splotches in Russia seems to have been to enhance the camo and was a throwback to the pre-war colours of 75% dark grey with splothes of brown or green.

And there was a lot of variation in the field and did vary by unit at times. The base info is from the painting orders from OKH which were the official colours but not always followed. And the Germans tended not to repaint older AFVs in the field but just overlay new camo colours. The first Tigers were all grey but survivors did acquire disruptive camo colours over time.

And as for Tiki - I researched that tank and there were at least two with that name in different units and possibly three. The original Tiki may have been transferred to another unit when it's original unit was sent back to refit with King Tigers. And there is some info that one of the Tikis was a replacement tank for the original. Although the info is very sketchy, it appears that over time, there was more than one tank commander for the tank. I spent a lot of time on it and never did clear it up. I posted some of the info to threads on Treefrog - probably best to search for Tiki

Terry
 
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