Is competition good for King and County? (1 Viewer)

[desk11desk12]

We know it’s good for the collector, but is it good for King and Country?

If so, why? If not why?

Carlos

 

[DMNamiot]

I think this is a loaded question but here goes.

I will say that it is good for them if the competition is on par with them for quality and has a lower cost. Of course this remains to be seen but I think that King and Country by going to the larger size makes them the standard for the other companies that aspire too (much like Britains is for 54mm). So if the folks at Honour Bound and New Model make a good high quality offering and have a more reasonable price range it will get more new people and some old to look at them a little closer and in my case give them a chance to sell me on their sized sets. Right now I have no King and Country and that is mainly due to the size difference I have virtually all 54mm but I am willing to give the new companies out there a look and who knows maybe I'll be sold too.

Dave

 

[Louis Badolato]

I think Andy welcomes competition and recognizes that it is good for K&C. One of Andy's favorite stories (which he tells collectors all the time) is how the success of Frontline's focus on the Charge of the Light Brigade inspired Andy to focus on WWII. I think the competition will only inspire Andy to improve the one area where he has remained complacent: his polystone vehicles. Honour Bound's better quality similarly priced tanks will surely inspire a reaction from Andy, and I expect that the reaction will knock our socks off.

 

[jazzeum]

I think competition is good for anybody, whether it's in this industry or any industry. If you're the only player in town, you have no incentive to improve a product, charge high prices, etc. Now this doesn't apply to Andy because he has consistently improved his product and maintained a good price. Competition as a rule will also foster innovations: how can I make a product better than my competitor? Competition can also lead to lower prices. If there are two manufacturers making the same thing of equal quality but one charges more, the consumer will necessarily gravitate to the lower priced manufacturer. So, competition can never be a bad thing.

 

[Steven Chong]

I think Andy welcomes competition and recognizes that it is good for K&C. One of Andy's favorite stories (which he tells collectors all the time) is how the success of Frontline's focus on the Charge of the Light Brigade inspired Andy to focus on WWII. I think the competition will only inspire Andy to improve the one area where he has remained complacent: his polystone vehicles. Honour Bound's better quality similarly priced tanks will surely inspire a reaction from Andy, and I expect that the reaction will knock our socks off.

I think it is both good and bad for K&C. Louis aptly described the good aspects i.e. makes K&C strive harder to improve its product, but there is a bad aspect to competition. I believe there is a finite amount of money being spent by collectors on toy soldiers and military miniatures, with all manufacturers chasing after the same pot of money. If collectors on a budget choose to buy a competitor's set and not K&C, then competition negatively impacts K&C. With stock not selling as quickly, dealers will have less reorders and will not pre-order as many new sets the next time. Of course, this may mean a slow down in the pre-order frenzy that has left some sets "sold-out" before they ever arrive at the dealers.

 

[sceic2]

I think it is both good and bad for K&C. Louis aptly described the good aspects i.e. makes K&C strive harder to improve its product, but there is a bad aspect to competition. I believe there is a finite amount of money being spent by collectors on toy soldiers and military miniatures, with all manufacturers chasing after the same pot of money. If collectors on a budget choose to buy a competitor's set and not K&C, then competition negatively impacts K&C. With stock not selling as quickly, dealers will have less reorders and will not pre-order as many new sets the next time. Of course, this may mean a slow down in the pre-order frenzy that has left some sets "sold-out" before they ever arrive at the dealers.

I think that Steven has said it very aptly. While competition does have its upside for both the consumer and the producer, it can have an industry falling out or thinning of the herd so to speak.

I don't know at what point the two issues intersect on a graph but it is something that a graduate MBA should be able to use for a thesis. Perhaps even a PhD candidate could determine the most cost effective ratio of competitive producers to prospective consumers in the toy soldier market. One would have to further determine the potential for not only the change in the market share, but also the growth of the actual market. I think that a major factor is the changing quality of the merchandise and the ability of the market to absorb price increases to compensate for that increase in quality. Add in the secondary market and perhaps a change in the quantity of items produced would significantly or insignificantly change the market.

The aging of the population of toy soldier collectors is an issue. What is the trend for that aging? Are there younger or are there older with traditionally greater levels of disposable income entering the market or remaining in the market. One of the most important questions a marketing survey should determine is the highest price the market can accept or the lowest price the market can accept while still providing the manufacturer with a reasonable profit or cash-on-cash return on their investments.

This question is one that has but one answer. Yes competition is good. But the combination of variables to get to that answer is as wide and varied as the market is wide and varied.

As an economic development professional, I believe that competition is the lifeblood of the market economy. Don't get me started on the so-called world wide free market; it simply does not exist despite all of the rhetoric from the politicians. Michael

 

[Louis Badolato]

Wow. Macro-economics on the toy soldier forum. I didn't get this subject in college, and it's just as confusing to me now.

 

[nmrocks]

There is ALWAYS a market for a better mouse trap. This simply comes down to who's got it?
Ray

 

[Eazy]

On the age of collectors issue, I seem to remember that last time this question was asked there was a lot of guys here in their 30's with young families.
This is the group, including me, that seem to be getting into it in a big way having only just got involved fairly recently.
I think it's our refuge from wives and shouting kids.


As for comptition being a good thing. Absolutely.

K&C are going to have to improve their vehicle tracks and suspension and gun barrels. Their painting is already top notch so no problem there.

The other issue that K&C may have to look at is providing more full body figures with their vehicles.

It also wouldn't be a bad thing if competition and market growth bought prices down.

 

[jazzeum]

I think the linchpin of Steven's arguments is the base of collectors. If the base keeps growing and if it's a young base it's not a problem. Conversely, if the base is shrinking and the base is old, then of course it's the reverse. From what I see, the base is growing. I also don't think new entrants are going to bother coming in if they see an aging shrinking base.

 

[Joey]

Competition is good for every business. It motivates the companies to keep on improving, and giving the best available. When a company doesn't have any major competitors, it will take the costumers ( here the colectors) for granted.

Also, price is a good argument. Concurrence is the best for the consumers, because you'll have to be the best one with the lowest prices as possible. But I don't think prices that are too low are good to the market either. We collectors expect an increase in value, a good quality product,etc. When prices are too low people will automatically think that your product doesn't meet the standards. The costumer will not buy the products, just because the so called quality product is too cheap.

Also, too much competition on a market like this one is bad too. When you have too much competition, it's hard to survive on a market like this. Companies with a vibrant history will be destroyed, tradition will be lost. This will become a cold, hard business like everything else, it won't stay a close, select group were everybody knows each other...

 

[CannonFodder1971]

I can't add much more to the foregoing, other than perhaps to say that I hope it doesn't result in K&C pulling out of certain eras and theatres of conflict to specialise on the more profitable ranges. As things stand we are getting a very good deal with the standard pricing of a 4-piece set, as clearly the WWII and other profitable ranges are cross-subsidising other areas, and probably some sets within the DD and WS ranges wouldn't have happened had there been a cut throat competition to face off a competitor with endless plain vanilla combat sets. (Some of my favourites are the patrols).

 

[Louis Badolato]

I think the base for traditional glossy Britains style collectors is getting older and shrinking, but I think matt K&C figures attract a different, younger crowd. I think the collector base for these matt figures has been steadily growing, as is evidenced by the influx of new collectors joining the forum, most of whom have indicated they are only interested in the more realistic, matt figures. Accordingly, I think that the competition will be healthy for K&C, as it may draw even more of these younger collectors into the hobby.

 

[OzDigger]

There is no doubt that significant competition usually has more negative impacts on a business than positives. However at present King and Country have few serious competitors in this scale as the incumbents are operating at relatively low production levels. Therefore the competition won't do much in the way of financial harm to K & C unless larger companies decide to expand into the 60-65 mm arena. And or, the present competitors raise production significantly, then we may see some fur flying.

Meanwhile I suspect it will be business as usual for K & C. Perhaps (hopefully) with some detail improvements in their neglected polystone vehicle range, as well as some tweaking here and there across the board. So at this stage we could only say that competition is good for King and Country as it keeps their ball rolling and provides range improvements for the consumer.

 

[Panzer]

Meanwhile I suspect it will be business as usual for K & C. Perhaps (hopefully) with some detail improvements in their neglected polystone vehicle range, as well as some tweaking here and there across the board.

Oz, I'm not seeing the neglect in the vehicle range. In fact the vehicles keep getting more improved with better attention to detail each year.

The new AK transport with see-through windshield has many improvements over the earlier AK20 Hanomag which is still quite good and still one of my favorites. Even the paint job on the new AK sets is better and more realistic than the 2002 released AK rolling stock.

The museum miniature quality of the Strictly Limited Winter Tiger and now the new Panther show vast improvement over earlier models.

I've bought over 60 K&C vehicles in the last 10 months including several retired models (year 2000 and above) and I can clearly see the improvements with each succeeding year.

Semper Fi!
Rick

 

[OzDigger]

Oz, I'm not seeing the neglect in the vehicle range. In fact the vehicles keep getting more improved with better attention to detail each year.

The new AK transport with see-through windshield has many improvements over the earlier AK20 Hanomag which is still quite good and still one of my favorites. Even the paint job on the new AK sets is better and more realistic than the 2002 released AK rolling stock.

The museum miniature quality of the Strictly Limited Winter Tiger and now the new Panther show vast improvement over earlier models.

I've bought over 60 K&C vehicles in the last 10 months including several retired models (year 2000 and above) and I can clearly see the improvements with each succeeding year.

Semper Fi!
Rick

Hi Rick, imo the polystone range has been neglected as the improvements haven't kept pace with the detailing improvements to their figures. It's only in recent times that we have seen 'minimum standard' detailing such as clear windscreens and moveable tank cannon appear.

I'm certainly not the only collector that believes that as collectors see more and more better detailed vehicles from the new manufactures their expectations of K & C will continue to rise. For example you said on another thread recently: "Just received my Limited Stuart and have to say that Figarti just raised the industry quality scale on armored vehicle models."

And Louis who has been collecting K & C for many years said earlier on this thread: "I think the competition will only inspire Andy to improve the one area where he has remained complacent: his polystone vehicles. Honour Bound's better quality similarly priced tanks will surely inspire a reaction from Andy, and I expect that the reaction will knock our socks off."

Imo King and Country still have a way to go before they acheive real museum minature quality with their polystone vehicles, but they wouldn't look out of place in an art museum as the painting is usually top quality

 

[jazzeum]

I think the primary area where King and Country may not be satisfactory to some are the tracks. From my perspective, Figarti and Honour Bound have appeared to raise that bar. However, I believe that there is a significant difference between first polystone vehicles and the more recent ones, e.g. the first Tiger and the Winter Tiger. I also think for the K & C fans, it's not that huge an issue since we see and can expect to see constant improvements. If anything, Andy is not complacent. Usually in the absence of competition in any field, you do not see improvement or innovations as there is no pressure to do so. King and Country appears to be the exception to the rule.

With respect to Louis' comments, you have to know that Louis loathes, actually a stronger word would be hate, polystone. In fact, it's an almost every gathering it's become sort of a joke. He much prefers the wood.

Aside from the tracks, it will be interesting to see how the HB and the K & C Panther will compare.

 

[maddadicus]

I think the primary area where King and Country may not be satisfactory to some are the tracks. From my perspective, Figarti and Honour Bound have appeared to raise that bar. However, I believe that there is a significant difference between first polystone vehicles and the more recent ones, e.g. the first Tiger and the Winter Tiger. I also think for the K & C fans, it's not that huge an issue since we see and can expect to see constant improvements. If anything, Andy is not complacent. Usually in the absence of competition in any field, you do not see improvement or innovations as there is no pressure to do so. King and Country appears to be the exception to the rule.

With respect to Louis' comments, you have to know that Louis loathes, actually a stronger word would be hate, polystone. In fact, it's an almost every gathering it's become sort of a joke. He much prefers the wood.

Aside from the tracks, it will be interesting to see how the HB and the K & C Panther will compare.

I am not at all impressed with the switch to metal positionable, guns, which are not positionable except for always pointing down, because of the weight. Also, I have always liked most things resin/polystone. The K/C trackwork actually is not terrible, when compared to the primitive quality of the Britains/Contes line...Michael PS got to admit ,the new guys Panther turned out to be a very detailed piece

 

[OzDigger]

I understand they switched to metal canons on the tanks because they don't bend like the polystone barrels can do over time. On most models with metal canon there is usually something that you can tighten where it's attached to stop the barrel droping. If not, poke in some tacky wax or whatever between the gaps there to keep the barrel up more. It's not a problem exclusive to K & C this one as many of the long barrels on my old Solido tanks used to 'drop and stay'. To fix it I'd just tighten some screws or stick gum or whatever at the base of the barrel.

I agree with Louis about disliking polystone as it is overly heavy and doesn't allow for much detail if cast in to few pieces. However polystone does reduce production costs as there is less labor involved in casting polystone products, and these cost saving can be passed on to the consumer. I think it was a wise move of King and Country to change from wood to polystone as their customer base expanded because of the lower priced pieces.

Clearly the more pieces you have to assemble to make say a tank the more detail you will get, but also the labor costs rise. You have to strike a balance which varies with the size of your customer base. Wood is also less durable over time as it dries out, and countries such as the Phillipines have nearly used up all their trees, raising timber prices (maybe one day they'll wake up to the fact that all those mud slides in those countries are mainly due to the lack of tree cover).

Metal (diecast or slush cast) provides better detail but again you have more labor costs because of the assembly required so I guess Louis and I are stuck with polystone. But the detail on the polystone vehicles is improving and will match most of its competitors in time. I look forward to seeing some closeup pics comparing the K & C and HB panther.

 

[Panzer]

Oz, G'day mate.

I wouldn't equate my praise for the Figarti Stuart as slant against King & Country tracked vehicles. I have several and I'm happy with them. They keep getting better and better. Granted, there's always room for improvement even if you’re on the top. Those that don't believe that won't stay at the top long.

What attracts me to this hobby is the degree of realism in a figure or piece of rolling stock, regardless of who makes it. Not knocking the glossy figures but they just don't do it for me. I want something that I can set into a diorama to create a visual much like a David Pentland painting only in 3-D. Right now, K&C does this best.

Have you seen the new AK Desert Transport up close? In my opinion, this is one of the most realistic pieces I've seen.

On another note, just got back from a deployment to the Philippines. Got to work with 3 Aussie Officers and I'm telling you that I was impressed. Two of them are liaison officers assigned to the US Marines and one came over as an observer. These guys are top notch!

Semper Fi!
Rick