Is it the end of polystone? (2 Viewers)

[Fitzgibbon]

My only answer is this : M E T A L

people should ask themselves one question and only one :
why are manufacturers producing AFVs in resin, plastic, polystone, etc instead of metal ?
because metal cost more and is much heavier so higher shipping fees.

me i want the best and will always buy metal kits from now on. something i know will withstand the fall of time.

cheers

alex

Good on you Alex; someone who knows their own mind and the reasons behind the choices they make. I too have a number of high quality metal figurines and a rather large all metal wargames army collected over years, all individually hand-painted by myself. I recall changing to metal from a popular plastic figurine producer because the plastic flexed during gaming and the paint then flaked away. I still purchase metal figure kits for conversion because, having done the job once, I don't like to be constantly repairing. With finished products for passive collecting, the detail is the thing, not the material. It's a matter of horses for courses.
But I also have friends who don't collect military miniatures and one of them carries a fine china cup and saucer with him wherever he goes - always drinks from it - curious behaviour but we all accept it. The cost of this piece would leave you thinking that K&C really is about mere toys; I was told by my favorite TS supplier that there is a shop next to K&C Hong Kong that sells similar products. Anyway, he dropped it accidentally some time ago, and it refused to bounce - shattered into a thousand pieces on the concrete floor. He never even swore! But within a week he had one exactly the same; paid hundreds for it without flinching. And I'm thinking that the simple and universal answer is "to each his own" - there is no accounting for the taste of others. None here desires to behave according to the opinions of others; we just need to be comfortable that we have thought through our own choices and done the best we can. It's our own choice, not the opinion of another, that we rely upon.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Minichamps made some good 1:35 scale matal tank models. But they weren't dedicated to the line. And there were some drwbacks - the tanks were factory fresh (no weathering) and the tracks were made of plastic and sometimes came apart.

https://www.minichamps.de/index.php...s=&showroom_user=&noresults_showroom=&reset=0

Terry

 

[Panzer ace]

Minichamps made some good 1:35 scale matal tank models. But they weren't dedicated to the line. And there were some drwbacks - the tanks were factory fresh (no weathering) and the tracks were made of plastic and sometimes came apart.

https://www.minichamps.de/index.php...s=&showroom_user=&noresults_showroom=&reset=0

Terry

Granted they are not weathered but I love my Minichamps tanks (and half-tracks and 88's etc.). My enjoyment has nothing to do with the materials involved, I just like the detail and the name.

As far as weight goes otherwise? What something weighs is quantitative. How much something feels like it weighs is subjective.

 

[uksubs]

Minichamps made some good 1:35 scale matal tank models. But they weren't dedicated to the line. And there were some drwbacks - the tanks were factory fresh (no weathering) and the tracks were made of plastic and sometimes came apart.

https://www.minichamps.de/index.php...s=&showroom_user=&noresults_showroom=&reset=0

Terry

As you know Terry I had a lot of minchamps armour and beside the factory fresh paint job there were brilliant and miles more detail for the money but for me dragon 1/35 pre built tanks are the pick of the bunch as the paint job are spot on , I think one of the main reason company use poly stone is it a cheap materiel to buy and work with

 

[Jack]

Good on you Alex; someone who knows their own mind and the reasons behind the choices they make. I too have a number of high quality metal figurines and a rather large all metal wargames army collected over years, all individually hand-painted by myself. I recall changing to metal from a popular plastic figurine producer because the plastic flexed during gaming and the paint then flaked away. I still purchase metal figure kits for conversion because, having done the job once, I don't like to be constantly repairing. With finished products for passive collecting, the detail is the thing, not the material. It's a matter of horses for courses.
But I also have friends who don't collect military miniatures and one of them carries a fine china cup and saucer with him wherever he goes - always drinks from it - curious behaviour but we all accept it. The cost of this piece would leave you thinking that K&C really is about mere toys; I was told by my favorite TS supplier that there is a shop next to K&C Hong Kong that sells similar products. Anyway, he dropped it accidentally some time ago, and it refused to bounce - shattered into a thousand pieces on the concrete floor. He never even swore! But within a week he had one exactly the same; paid hundreds for it without flinching. And I'm thinking that the simple and universal answer is "to each his own" - there is no accounting for the taste of others. None here desires to behave according to the opinions of others; we just need to be comfortable that we have thought through our own choices and done the best we can. It's our own choice, not the opinion of another, that we rely upon.

Normally one has to climb a mountain to hear this kind of wisdom.

Well done!

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

To go back to Mitch’s original question… I think the answer, or at least mine is… no.

Best wishes and happy collecting!
Andy C.

P.S. Our new 25 pounder is polystone with some metal details attached… Hope this helps.

 

[TomNT]

Normally one has to climb a mountain to hear this kind of wisdom.

Well done!

I can imagine Bob at the top of mount Cootha! {sm4}

Tom

 

[Phantom Warrior]

So we have a market with many manufacturers using different resins from polystone to plastic and even diecast metal models ranging in price from $30 (21st Century), $70 Forces of Valor) into the low $100's (TGM) to the high $100's (CS, JJD) to the low $200's (Fig, K&C) to $300 for similar size AFVs. There must be more to it than weight for people to perceive value at all these price points. Why the price differences? One can't even say that diecast metal AFVs are always the best.

(Note that cats will always select the most expensive model to break)

Terry

 

[Peter Reuss]

Terry, I'm surprised that you haven't given us any information on polystone cats! Perhaps cats would be a better mixed medium...

 

[jazzeum]

I don't know if it's the end of polystone but sooooooooooner or later Pete may tell us it's the end of this thread! {eek3} ^&grin

 

[WBritain]

So we have a market with many manufacturers using different resins from polystone to plastic and even diecast metal models ranging in price from $30 (21st Century), $70 Forces of Valor) into the low $100's (TGM) to the high $100's (CS, JJD) to the low $200's (Fig, K&C) to $300 for similar size AFVs. There must be more to it than weight for people to perceive value at all these price points. Why the price differences? One can't even say that diecast metal AFVs are always the best.

(Note that cats will always select the most expensive model to break)

Terry

Dear Terry,
I think your question really is a general one, so I apologize in advance for posting this in the King & Country area of the forum!

All materials have their own merits depending on what criteria need to be met in the end. The project and the production size may determine what materials should be used if a specific price point is targeted.
I will not get into the details, but the suggested retail pricing will be largely determined by several factors for most of the companies in this industry:

Cost of product development
Cost of tooling
Cost of materials
Cost of manufacturing
Cost of packaging
Size of production run
And, which market is identified as the target audience.

The other important thing to remember is that all business models are not equal either, and this can also be an important factor in determining a suggested retail price.

Just some thoughts.
All the best,
Ken Osen

P.S.
You are absolutely spot on as to which items my cats seem to choose to play with!

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Dear Terry,
I think your question really is a general one, so I apologize in advance for posting this in the King & Country area of the forum!

All materials have their own merits depending on what criteria need to be met in the end. The project and the production size may determine what materials should be used if a specific price point is targeted.
I will not get into the details, but the suggested retail pricing will be largely determined by several factors for most of the companies in this industry:

Cost of product development
Cost of tooling
Cost of materials
Cost of manufacturing
Cost of packaging
Size of production run
And, which market is identified as the target audience.

The other important thing to remember is that all business models are not equal either, and this can also be an important factor in determining a suggested retail price.

Just some thoughts.
All the best,
Ken Osen

P.S.
You are absolutely spot on as to which items my cats seem to choose to play with!

Ken - I agree 100%. So when collectors say X is the best material, we need to ask best how? and what are the drawbacks to that material.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry, I'm surprised that you haven't given us any information on polystone cats! Perhaps cats would be a better mixed medium...

Peter

Terry won't be able to respond to your question on polystone cats. I've got his tongue.

Signed

The Cat (Le Chat)

 

[Mitch]

Not sure why at least this is about the hobby and rather pertinent issues. seems scale, colour, detail accuracy, don't interest some.

I have found the answers interesting and some illuminating
Mitch

I don't know if it's the end of polystone but sooooooooooner or later Pete may tell us it's the end of this thread! {eek3} ^&grin

 

[jazzeum]

Not sure why at least this is about the hobby and rather pertinent issues. seems scale, colour, detail accuracy, don't interest some.

I have found the answers interesting and some illuminating
Mitch

A sense of humor is a terrible thing to waste :wink2:

 

[Panzer ace]

Terry, I'm surprised that you haven't given us any information on polystone cats! Perhaps cats would be a better mixed medium...

That would be great but eventually someone would question the scale, historical accuracy or claim that you get better detail from a real cat. You add dog lovers into the mix and you might as well ban this topic now.

 

[Mitch]

must be the way ya tell em!!
Mitch

A sense of humor is a terrible thing to waste :wink2:

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Not sure why at least this is about the hobby and rather pertinent issues. seems scale, colour, detail accuracy, don't interest some.

I have found the answers interesting and some illuminating
Mitch

The debate over polystone vs resin vs plastic vs white metal vs diecast has gone on for years on this forum Famous quotes include "polystone junk" "cheap plastic" and the ever popular "why should I pay $200 for a polystone model (or $300 for a resin model) when I can get one with better detail from FOV for $50"

When the question of the 25 pdr being plastic came up because it was so light, I found it hard to believe, but didn't know much about model materials. I have never been good at telling what the model was made of, especially since many of them are now mixed media. So I checked into it making use of what little I learned in school about organic and synthetic compounds and long chain polymers. Surprise - polystone, resin, plastic are all resins and very closely related.

If someone made cubes of different compositions of polystones, synthetic resins and plastics and white metal, and painted them the same, I doubt any collector would be able to tell what the cubes were made of. Some would be heavy, some would be light, some would have a greasy feel, some would be plyable, some rigid. But polystone, resins, plastics and white metal could all have some of those characteristics depending on it's composition.

Debunk 101

Terry

 

[Mitch]

Terry...

I would say your right but, I was shocked at how light and fragile the 25ILB gun was compared to the older version. Traditional K&C has weight and if the materials are the same as Andy alluded to in terms of Polystone are we seeing a manufacturing change that is slim lining the amount of material used?

I suppose the next point would be if that were correct and these items I have highlighted (among a few other recent releases) are lighter in this would it not be plausible to think prices should actually be going south instead of monthly price increases?
Mitch

The debate over polystone vs resin vs plastic vs white metal vs diecast has gone on for years on this forum Famous quotes include "polystone junk" "cheap plastic" and the ever popular "why should I pay $200 for a polystone model (or $300 for a resin model) when I can get one with better detail from FOV for $50"

When the question of the 25 pdr being plastic came up because it was so light, I found it hard to believe, but didn't know much about model materials. I have never been good at telling what the model was made of, especially since many of them are now mixed media. So I checked into it making use of what little I learned in school about organic and synthetic compounds and long chain polymers. Surprise - polystone, resin, plastic are all resins and very closely related.

If someone made cubes of different compositions of polystones, synthetic resins and plastics and white metal, and painted them the same, I doubt any collector would be able to tell what the cubes were made of. Some would be heavy, some would be light, some would have a greasy feel, some would be plyable, some rigid. But polystone, resins, plastics and white metal could all have some of those characteristics depending on it's composition.

Debunk 101

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry...

I would say your right but, I was shocked at how light and fragile the 25ILB gun was compared to the older version. Traditional K&C has weight and if the materials are the same as Andy alluded to in terms of Polystone are we seeing a manufacturing change that is slim lining the amount of material used?

I suppose the next point would be if that were correct and these items I have highlighted (among a few other recent releases) are lighter in this would it not be plausible to think prices should actually be going south instead of monthly price increases?
Mitch

I don't know why this 25 pdr is so light. But in resins, cost doesn't necessarily equate to weight. It may be more to do with the cost of the materials used in that particular composition. It's possible the composition on the polystone in the 25 pdr is different from the composition of the polystone used in earlier tank bodies? I can't see Andy slim lining a part if it made it more fragile.

Terry