Is it too much? (1 Viewer)

[Pierre]

I know that this question was already debated and that unanimity will never be reached ( because of the divergent interests of the manufacturers/dealers vs dealers ones) but I am now more convinced that 1 250 examplaries for a Strictly Limited Edition is really, really too much.

To my big surprise, I just found that a dealer is giving a WS077 for every order over $2000,00. He must still have in his possession a lot of them (unless he bought them for that specific purpose).

It will be very interesting to see how the BBA15 will sell.

Bonne journée,
Pierre.

 

[Combat]

The Sherman will sell better because of "Patton", but I agree that 1200 is too many. The Panzer Meyer is still on the shelf of all the dealers that I have visited - so no difference from a normal product except the price.

 

[Beaufighter]

I was very much in favor of a limited number of 500 sets similar to the K&C WS069; and a maximum number of 999 sets as with the K&C WS070 Winter Tiger . However, as is the always the case there are considerations beyond our immediate scope as in production costs & special packaging which translate to a higher run as it is a business for K&C & not only a hobby. In the end, I will take what I can get & buy what I love limited or not.

 

[nmrocks]

I'll be suprised if it sells any better than the other "Limited" sets, regardless of the Patton fig. I just don't see any evidence that personality figs. are enough to drive sales. Rommel, Hitler, Montgomery, Eisenhower, Custer and all the name german generals have never "sold out". I would not buy a $200 plus set for a Patton fig. which you know will re-appear at some point. The Tank had better be something I can't live without in order for me to spend that amount.
I love the HB stuff, but I have none, I very uncomfortable with the jump in pricing for the hobby in general. The trend toward smaller sets and individual figures is just to mask a general, fairly rapid rise in figure costs.
I personally will continue to fall behind the curve for these reasons and will be driven to be more and more selective.
Ray

 

[binder001]

I have one pre-ordered, but what sold me wasn't Patton (I already have several GSP figures) but I'm into the Sherman and the M4A3 76W is an item I've asked Andy to produce. So, I guess I'm not into it for its "collectible" value as much as he is producing a tank that I want and all the "new guys" in 1/30th seem to falling all over themselves making more Nazis. That makes Andy my prime source for US vehicles, limited or not!

Gary

 

[boot51]

I was very much in favor of a limited number of 500 sets similar to the K&C WS069; and a maximum number of 999 sets as with the K&C WS070 Winter Tiger . However, as is the always the case there are considerations beyond our immediate scope as in production costs & special packaging which translate to a higher run as it is a business for K&C & not only a hobby. In the end, I will take what I can get & buy what I love limited or not.

I have one pre-ordered, but what sold me wasn't Patton (I already have several GSP figures) but I'm into the Sherman and the M4A3 76W is an item I've asked Andy to produce. So, I guess I'm not into it for its "collectible" value as much as he is producing a tank that I want and all the "new guys" in 1/30th seem to falling all over themselves making more Nazis. That makes Andy my prime source for US vehicles, limited or not!

Gary

I'm with Beaufighter and Gary on this one, it seems like the 750 number on the Grief wasn't enought to satisfy demand and the 1250 number on the Panzer Meyer is too much for the current level of K&C WWII collectors, there's still plenty of them at the dealers. The 999 of the Winter Tiger appears to be about right, until there's a larger base of collectors of the WWII series 1250 seems be excessive. I'm buying the Sherman because I like it and the Bugle series needs American armor badly not because it's "limited" or because of the Patton-like figure. The Sherman and M10 will be welcome additions, I'd love to purchase muliples of the Sherman without the Patton-like figure and at a much lower price tag.

Fred

 

[gk5717]

What is the point of a "Limited Edition" in the first place?
If I like a piece I will buy it, I won,t buy it if it doesn,t interest me, limited edition or not.
If I thought I could sell 2000 of a piece why would I make 900.
Other than a marketing strategy, someone explain this to me.
Gary

 

[victory]

If you can sell half as many at twice the price, you still have achieved the same result.

 

[jazzeum]

I also think 1250 is too much and that 999 is a nice amount but one thing it does prevent is gouging so that may not be a bad thing. 999 is good because it guarantees that those who want it will get it and results that you get a nice healthy return if you go to sell it.

 

[OzDigger]

If you can sell half as many at twice the price, you still have achieved the same result.

Not entirely the same result, because you have saved yourself 50% in production costs by making half as many.

It is entirely logical that the more popular the set the better it will sell. The new Sherman set will be popular because it is an American tank, it will have the improved tracks, and seven figures, including a sort of famous general. And it's a peice of history because of the sandbagging. Hell, I might even get one myself. Actually I don't know why it isn't being issued as an official Patton set as I understand it only cost K & C $4,000 for the rights to the earlier single figure. Which seems a reasonable price to me, do we have any experts in this field.

I have said several times before that K & C got their sums wrong on the Rommel set. And they should be issuing the more popular SL sets (Rommel etc) in higher numbers and less popular sets (Russians etc) in lower numbers.

For example I feel a Strictly Limited set of say a Russian SU-100 or whatever would sell fast if issued as a set of 500 pieces. Yet it would sit on the shelf for some time if issued in larger numbers or as a part of the normal range. I bet the RA14 "Katyusha Rocket Launcher" would have sold out fast if issued as a Strictly Limited set of only 500 pieces. Instead, it is still siting on the shelves in most K & C stores.

 

[Louis Badolato]

While I agree with all of the points made on this thread (and have made the same arguments against calling a set with an issue of 1250 "strictly limited") I think that, considering all of the right things K&C does (like improving the tracks, committing to issuing both warbirds and trucks with clear glass canopies and windshields and interior detail, and otherwise responding to our many requests and complaints) I think that we should just purchase what we like, and reserve judgment on his business decisions for a year or so. Andy always seems to be on top of things, and if his promised History Chanel advertising pans out, and draws in even a couple of thousand new collectors,1250 may seem very limited indeed!

 

[victory]

You do have a point Oz.

I agree with Louis, I just buy what I like and am content as long as I can get it at normal price. That said, and not to open a can of worms but the only thing I don't like about limited editions is the potential it leaves for unscrupulous dealers holding back to take advantage of the secondary market. Since there is nothing I can do about that though I just buy what I like and enjoy.

 

[nmrocks]

Your all probably right, for someone on a limited budget, over production does keep products on the market longer and at a reasonable price.
Ray

 

[jazzeum]

This issue seems to come up from time to time but ultimately the decision as to how many to issue will be made by the person who knows his business best, Andy notwithstanding what we may say. If the base expands, the amounts may actually increase, not go down.

 

[Pierre]

...Andy always seems to be on top of things, and if his promised History Chanel advertising pans out, and draws in even a couple of thousand new collectors,1250 may seem very limited indeed!

And if the advertising draws two thousands new collectors, will the SL Editions be 2 500? Why making them in a so high numbers because of the expectation of more customers? Why not making them in a number in respect of the capacity of the market to integrate them as they're supposed to be: less common and more valuable because of their rarity. That is that quality that makes early K&C products so hot. After all, we pay more money for a SL Edition than an ordinary one.

Pierre.

 

[OzDigger]

The present market is very different to what it was when K & C started out so you can't use those production levels as a base these days. Back then K & C was basically limited to people that already collected toy soldiers plus some professional types that had encountered K & C executive toys.

These days you can find K & C pieces in a variety of stores and with the improvements to the tracks etc there will be even more interest. For example the only thing that has stopped me collecting the tracked vehicles is the lack of track/wheel detail, and believe me, I'm not the only person that hasn't collected them because of that.

When the new KIng & Country tanks hit the stores I think you will find a significant increase in the demand for K & C sets. The vehicles will be caparable with Honour Bound and Figarti products but the present dealer network of K & C will give K & C a huge advantage in the market place. And this is likely to cause increased interest in the retired pieces, although I suspect most new collectors will prefer the better detail found on the more recent products.

 

[panda1gen]

For my tuppence worth, I find all this very interesting. I said when the brilliant HB stuff (better than the current KC tanks) came out that I looked forward to Andy's reply, and with the M10 and others, boy has he replied.

What has pleasantly surprised me however is the way the HB stuff has got so much better already (the bergepanthers and field kitchen in particular) and also models I would never have looked at before.

Take Figarti (no offence Rick) - I bought the limited edition 8th army Honey and crew from Shannon as Andy didn't make much desert armour, not even the 1/30 scale (LOL John Gambale) - Figarti are also setting new standards, see their new Tigers, not sure what to do about them yet.

Are we hitting the point where we collectors are getting or will soon get wallet fatigue? I started buying all the new KC ww2 stuff a while ago, but can I afford to continue to buy all the KC plus HB plus NMA plus plus plus any more - I don't think so, and certainly not indefinitely.

If choice does become the necessary situation, quality and perhaps real 'limited editions' may be more important in 'justifying' purchasing decisions of ever increasing lines of stuff. I buy them because I like them, but I also need to justify buying against all other pulls on the wallet - without the prospect of a resale value of sorts, not necessarily speculative value, they may come under pressure.

Unless that is I sell the wife and kids Only joking dear

 

[OzDigger]

I agree Panda, all this new product makes it difficult for us non-lawyer types as we don't have their deep pockets I suspect it is even worse for me because I collect a variety of subjects including rare military and hunting books together with a broad cross-section of military diecast in different scales, etc, etc.

 

[RWFigarti]

For my tuppence worth, I find all this very interesting. I said when the brilliant HB stuff (better than the current KC tanks) came out that I looked forward to Andy's reply, and with the M10 and others, boy has he replied.

What has pleasantly surprised me however is the way the HB stuff has got so much better already (the bergepanthers and field kitchen in particular) and also models I would never have looked at before.

Take Figarti (no offence Rick) - I bought the limited edition 8th army Honey and crew from Shannon as Andy didn't make much desert armour, not even the 1/30 scale (LOL John Gambale) - Figarti are also setting new standards, see their new Tigers, not sure what to do about them yet.

Are we hitting the point where we collectors are getting or will soon get wallet fatigue? I started buying all the new KC ww2 stuff a while ago, but can I afford to continue to buy all the KC plus HB plus NMA plus plus plus any more - I don't think so, and certainly not indefinitely.

If choice does become the necessary situation, quality and perhaps real 'limited editions' may be more important in 'justifying' purchasing decisions of ever increasing lines of stuff. I buy them because I like them, but I also need to justify buying against all other pulls on the wallet - without the prospect of a resale value of sorts, not necessarily speculative value, they may come under pressure.

Unless that is I sell the wife and kids Only joking dear

No Offence taken, glad you like Figarti products, as for the Tiger, it is a conversation piece that can sit all by itself nicely on your desk or just about anywhere. But make sure whatever you put it on holds 4.5lbs!

Thanks for the support.

Rick
RWFigarti

 

[panda1gen]

I do like the honey rick, saw one of your stuarts at the london show but it was the 'speculative' very limited edition from shannon that clinched it - good marketing there I think. It photographed very well in a diorama with the crew.