K&C collectors (1 Viewer)

[UK_BOD]

Hi,

A few months ago I asked a question as to weather there was enough collectors out there to support what was then an increasing number of manufacturers and generally the answer back was yes. However, as far as I know there is still only about a dozen or so Brit contributors to this forum and about 280 in all (mostly Americans). With King and Country announcing that they were increasing their advertising budget, (I believe so any way - information was from this forum) have they noticed an increase in first time customers. I would also be interested in what K&C UK say, as they have the European market.

Hopefully, in ten years time K&C, will have grown further along with the other Toy Soldier manufactuers and I would have the honour of sharing this excellent forum with over a thousand other collectors in a very stable hobby..

By the way, Mr Neilson thank you for your forthcoming Crusaders line, I now have yet another line of figures to collect. Please don't do a trebuchet as I would have to spend yet more money on my collection (very cheap reverse psychology at its worse).

So what am I looking forward to over the next few months? The K&C Crusaders line, any new WWII and possibly the Alamo range, Britains WWI and ACW (big order already awaiting postie) and looking at both NMA and Honour Bound products. Possibly Conte and their upcoming(???) new ACW releases. Also must see J.G. Miniatures at Xmas London Show.

What would I like to see forthcoming (Firefly) in the Toy Soldier world, nothing really, there is a lot of good companies and figures out there, just not enough money.

Last thing, great win for Liverpool today! Prediction for the Premiership........ I have no idea, I just don't want to put down what my head says instead of my heart.

Your Never Walk Alone

Andy

 

[Gideon]

I am noticing more and more that the manufacturers are battling tooth and nail over the same customers.

I've been saying for quite a while that the hobby as a whole is shrinking - I notice it all the time.

There are certainly fewer people attending the toy soldier shows from when I was a kid 20 years ago - there are fewer shows, there are fewer shops catering to the market, etc. For every one hobby shop that opens - 3 to 4 close.

The hobby used to be more of a mainstream one but there seems to be a shift taking place within the global culture, and, maybe, there is a discomfort with the subject matter over the past couple of years. Kind of like the rejection of toy soldiers in the decade after WWI which forced Britians to produce gardening and other more civilian sets during the 1920's.

Maybe it's a cycle or maybe the moms finally took over - that is bad for toy soldiers sales overall (with some exceptions - I am not making a complete blanket statement). Maybe Andy could make Rosie the Riveter figures or a series of women test pilots of the WWII era.

Any which way you slice and dice, there are certainly fewer people collecting than there were 20 years ago.

Just some observations here.

 

[desk11desk12]

Gideon,

Oh how I hope you're wrong. If not, then we're headed towards some dark days ahead for our hobby.

If you're right, why are there so many manufacturers in the market place producing so many products at every increasing rate? It would seem folly and financially disastrous wouldn't it. I'm confused, maybe they're privy to market data we're not or perhaps new collectors (under 50) are getting they're product more and more from shows and the Internet and less from stores. It’s just a guess but look at Shannon's survey shows that many collectors are under 50.

That's a good sign right? Okay maybe the survey isn't quit scientific or representative of the market but if it is, maybe there is still hope and maybe the hobby is healthy but less so for dealers that generate most of their sales almost exclusively from their store or mail order catalogs.

Just a guess and in time we'll see what happens.


Carlos

 

[Gideon]

There were many companies producing TOY SOLDIERS in vast quantites- - not the type collected today. Britains, Johillco, the American Dimestore figures, Timpo, etc. Then you had only a handfull of guys producing the top quality figures that collectors of today would recognize - people like Richard Courtenay, Roy Selwyn Smith, Freddie Ping and, today, Peter Greenhill and the Russian companies.

When the toy soldier hobby for children ran out and as the toy soldier evolved (think GI Joe dolls and action figures) the little lead guys began to dwindle - not because they were expensive but because lead in childrens toys was banned and the shift to plastics was underway.

If you put the output of all the little toy soldier companies producing right now together do you honestly think it would be anywhere near as close to what Britains was producing at any given point from the 1900's to the mid/late 1960's? That's all of the soldier companies of today put together.

It's just my 2 cents, but I have been watching internet keywords, search phrases, my web stats and conversion rates - everything points to a shrinking market.

 

[desk11desk12]

Well Gideon,

Again, I say I hope your wrong but I'll defer to your long experience (as a collector & dealer) since I'm a relative newcomer to the hobby.

Carlos

 

[Peter Reuss]

There are certainly fewer people attending the toy soldier shows from when I was a kid 20 years ago - there are fewer shows, there are fewer shops catering to the market, etc. For every one hobby shop that opens - 3 to 4 close.

I think Gideon and I will disagree on this one. I believe that a major shift in the market began when the internet became mainstream. While toy soldier collectors had one relied on the small shops and the shows for their 'monthly fix,' they now have it all at their fingertips and delivered to their door. Why drive all the way to a show (with gas at these prices) if you can have it delivered for next to nothing.

Another major shift is happening in the toy soldier world. We are moving away from simply selling 'collectibles' to selling works of art. Take Precious Moments for example. These are mass produced figures that probably cost little or nothing to develop. They toy soldiers today (i.e. from K&C, NMA, HB) are highly researched and detailed. The cost reflects not ony the collectability of the figures, it also reflects the painstaking detail that they have.

Precious Moments are geared at your everyday Grandma who likes figurines. Toy soldiers are geared towards a more exclusive audience. Let's be honest, many (if not most) people cannot afford a large collection. I do believe much of the toy soldier market is moving away from kids and focusing on middle aged adults who have the disposable income to purchase a nice collection.

Many of our customers are fairly new to the toy soldier world (I believe we asked this question of the Forum a while back). Some collected as kids and took quite a while off. Others were just blown away by the quality of the figures.

The new companies also are making more of a profit per set than in the past. A manufacturer has to sell a WHOLE lot of plastics to make the same amount of profit as one thing today.

My 2 cents worth ...

Pete

 

[jazzeum]

FWIW, I'll side with Peter and Carlos on this one. I am a relatively new collector (two years) and just from my ebay studies I see different people coming in all the time, at least on K & C. I can't speak for other parts of the hobby as I really don't know much about them. I don't think you'd have new entrants into 1/30 scale if it was a declining hobby. I think people like Ana and Daniel would be investing money into Honour Bound if they saw the market drying up.

 

[OzDigger]

Gideon is certainly correct in saying that toy soldier shops and collectable shops in general seem to be closing their doors at an ever increasing rate. However as Peter and others have said I feel it is not that the market is shrinking but evolving into a more internet based market. For example eBay now provides a huge sorce of collectables that are available world wide.

Many small store traders just can't afford to compete against internet sales because of ever increasing rent costs, together with freight, labor etc. Some savy sellers such as Treefrog have turned the internet to their advantage but not every store owner has the time, knowledge or resources to sell via the internet.

However there are two other factors that haven't been mentioned. The main point being that the global economy is slowing. And together with excalating wars, people are becoming a bit more careful about their spending. Of course hard core collectors will carry on as usual, but I think Joe Bloggs (that average guy in the street) is getting a bit nervous about spending to much on luxury goods. For example I know of a local diecast shop owner that started operating in a large mall but after five years had to move to a less exposed postion because of high rentals and the requirement to refurbish the shop every few years. His sales subsequently suffered in the new hard to find postion until he decided to close doors and own for a wage. Just another victim of 'progress' I guess.

The other less important factor is that large shopping centres, or malls as you guys call them, continue to encourage shoppers into large complexes and thus away from the family owned stores in the street. You used to only see malls in cities, now every country town seems to have one or more. And these malls only seem to have franchise type shops whose rents are even higher than shops in the main street.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I can't speak to the hobby as a whole, but it would appear to me (based on production run numbers, and the new companies) that the interest in matt metal toy soldiers has skyrocketed from just a few hundred in 1995 to at least 1000 today. If Andy's increased advertising budget reaches the right audience (thirty and forty-somethings with disposable income and an interest in military history) I think the hobby will increase exponentially. I can tell you that every other lawyer who came into my office and saw my soldiers always asked about them, and spent time looking at them. If the audience watching the Military Chanel or the History Chanel find out about quality historical miniatures, vehicles and diorama materials at affordable prices available at local shops or via the internet, there will be new collectors, of that I have no doubt.

 

[nmrocks]

I Have heard the reference to this "Increase in advertising but, can anyone tell me where I can see this new Increase?
Frankly I haven't seen anything new in any of the places I would expect, military magazines, T.V. , etc.
Has anyone seen this advertising in any form that isn't really "Preaching to the chior"?
I'd like to see some of it?
Ray

 

[Fubar]

Said it before and I'll say it again. If you want more enthusiasts, then get them when they are young.There are many kids that appreciate History and like miniatures. They simply can no way afford the expensive metals.
Right, us older middle aged guys with some disposable income can get our fix for metal.But , we get older, the hobby gets greyer.
Those youngsters will be middle aged someday and we'll be gone.Hopefully our hobby won't die off with us.

I would hope that some manufacturers would invest in { eeeegads} plastics or plastic kits simply to allow the younger folks a chance to join in the hobby.Certainly there are many that buy 1/72 plastics and 1/35 models.
As for myself, I only started buying the matte 1/32 sets about 4 years ago.
I cant see 15 year olds buying any at all.They just dont have the $$$$.

When I drag myslef to the ACW reenactments I see hundreds of kids , most in unifrom and guess what they buy from some of the vendors? Plastic figures.
I know they are out there!

Fubar

 

[vandilay]

I agree that their has probably been a large shift towards the internet.
I would not have got back into this hobby if not for that.The risk though
if too many shops close is that people just wont be exposed to toy sodiers
so wont begin collecting.
I had played with and collected as a kid [airfix,britains deetail and metal]
so the interest was always their, i just wasnt involved as a collector.
I dought if not for that ,even with an interest in military history I would
ever have become a collector [i still think its a fairly odd thing to do ].
I agree with fubars coment about kids ,if they play with them when thier young the seeds of a future collector are already their.
I think their will always be toy soldier collectors its just a matter of how
strong the hobby becomes.

 

[mitch292]

I agree being a 14 year old my self with my low pay from landscaping in my dad's friend's company it is very hard to pay for the soldiers that I want. I wish that they were more affordable but they are not and I can't help myself I love them to much so I pay with almost every cent I make.

from,
Mitch

 

[Joey]

Re: K&C collectorsng

I too face these kind of problems. It's just awful to choose four or five sets from all the ranges I wish to collect. But hey, I've learned to live with that. Toy soldiers are not the most important thing in my life, I have other things to do and finance...

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

I have to say I agree with the idea that the kids need to focused on so they have another generation of collectors groomed and ready to go when they are our ages. Thats why I am so excited about the plastics that Britians is doing my 4 year old is going to start getting the knights soon its what I started with only mine were Swoppet plastic (I wish I still had some) this of course transitioned to the wild west stuff then into WWII as I got older. It might be a really vicious circle.

Dave

 

[Combat]

So long as the quality of soldiers produced continues to improve and the prices stay more or less equivalent to where they are at, I think there will always be a relatively stable group of collectors that can support the hobby. The influx of new collectors is limited by price. A hundred dollars per set is not going to be affordable for most. There probably are some middle aged or military types who would be interested if they were made more aware. But I don't think there will ever be a huge influx or decrease in the total numbers. Also, I strongly believe the toy soldier bug is best caught when experienced in person. The site of the soldiers displayed for real beats the internet any day. Unfortunately, most folks rarely have that opportunity.