king and country tiger 1 wittmann (2 Viewers)

[stefanuccio]

hallo all
I recently came across to a k&c model of the famous M.Wittman tiger 1 tank 007 i am not sure if this tank is correct i seen photos of the real tank and it looks as a late production tiger 1 with zimmerit while the k&c depicts it as a mid production tioger without zimmerit
So i ask is the k&c model incorrect or it is there something i am missing ?!
thanks for your replais
stefano

 

[Phantom Warrior]

hallo all
I recently came across to a k&c model of the famous M.Wittman tiger 1 tank 007 i am not sure if this tank is correct i seen photos of the real tank and it looks as a late production tiger 1 with zimmerit while the k&c depicts it as a mid production tioger without zimmerit
So i ask is the k&c model incorrect or it is there something i am missing ?!
thanks for your replais
stefano

I'm not sure if it was mid or late production, but Wittma's last tank 007 definitely had zimmerit. You can see the 007 in white on the right side of the upside down turret. What feature of the tank made you conclude it was a late production Tiger? It had zimmerit typical of a late production Tiger. The other main visible clue would be if it had steel rimmed wheels instead of rubber rimmed wheels, but I don't have a photo of Wittmans tank that shows the wheels.

Terry

 

[Harry Faversham.]

Both the Tigers that Wittmann used at Villers Bocage and the one he was killed in were late production versions with Zimmerit and steel road wheels.

 

[fmethorst]

I'm not sure if it was mid or late production, but Wittma's last tank 007 definitely had zimmerit. You can see the 007 in white on the right side of the upside down turret. What feature of the tank made you conclude it was a late production Tiger? It had zimmerit typical of a late production Tiger. The other main visible clue would be if it had steel rimmed wheels instead of rubber rimmed wheels, but I don't have a photo of Wittmans tank that shows the wheels.

Terry

The first picture you posted shows Wittmann sitting on a Tiger with a T.Z.F.9c monocular gunsight which was introduced late March, early April 1944, making this a late variant. Question is which tank is this?

 

[stefanuccio]

thanks for your replaies gentleman
I am sure k&c did not get this tank correctly
FOV 1/16 tiger 1 of M.Wittman seems to be more correct as it is a late type with zimmerit and road wheeals of steel
ciao stefano

 

[Phantom Warrior]

The first picture you posted shows Wittmann sitting on a Tiger with a T.Z.F.9c monocular gunsight which was introduced late March, early April 1944, making this a late variant. Question is which tank is this?

I don't know which tank it is, but the picture is from the beginning of April 1944. The K&C tank model has no zimmerit and has rubber rimmed wheels - clearly a mid-production Tiger. But as I said, I don't remember seeing an actual photo of 007 clearly showing the steel rimmed wheels even though his company was certainly outfitted with late model tigers.

Terry

 

[Harry Faversham.]

If I recall correctly this was once discussed on the 'Achtung Panzer Forum'. 007 was identified as a late production Tiger by the spare aerial tube on the rear plate. One of the experten stated only late production Tigers had them.
I'm a bit new to this King and Country collecting lark and think their figures are very nice, can't say the same for the vehicles though. The Britsh 'Airborne' jeeps are poor and the 'Airborne' 6pdr. is laughable. If Wittmann's Normandy Tigger is depicted as a mid production model that's even worse!

​

 

[forlornhoper]

I can recall an article in AFV monthly on the subject of Wittman and 007,in the article there were pictures of parts retrieved from 007 and one of the items pictured was a single steel wheel,there were 5 tigers knocked out that day,so you may need to conjecture whether that steel wheel belonged to 007,records show that that 101 st batt,headquarters company received 1 steel wheeled tiger to add to its 2 older styled tigers in April 1944,we can conjecture that the battalion commander ,Von Westernhagen,would want the newer version for himself,if so the tiger assigned to him was numbered 007 and therefore a steel wheeled version,hope this helps.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I can recall an article in AFV monthly on the subject of Wittman and 007,in the article there were pictures of parts retrieved from 007 and one of the items pictured was a single steel wheel,there were 5 tigers knocked out that day,so you may need to conjecture whether that steel wheel belonged to 007,records show that that 101 st batt,headquarters company received 1 steel wheeled tiger to add to its 2 older styled tigers in April 1944,we can conjecture that the battalion commander ,Von Westernhagen,would want the newer version for himself,if so the tiger assigned to him was numbered 007 and therefore a steel wheeled version,hope this helps.

I don't know if the battalion commander took the first steel wheeled Tiger or Wittmann got it because of his record. I do have a photo of Wittmann sitting on the turret of a late model Tiger with zimmerit in this thread. The photo is dated April 1944, but who is to say it was Wittmann's tank - he could have just been posing on the first new late model Tiger they got.

I think stefanuccio and Harry Faversham are correct that Wittmann was in a late model Tiger. The photo of the destroyed 007 clearly shows zimmerit and the K&C model does not. As for whether it was a late model Tiger with steel wheels, it is hard to tell from the photo of the destroyed tank.

Terry

 

[debrito]

The first picture you posted shows Wittmann sitting on a Tiger with a T.Z.F.9c monocular gunsight which was introduced late March, early April 1944, making this a late variant. Question is which tank is this?

Question is which tank is this?[/QUOTE]


Tiger I

 

[forlornhoper]

Jean Restayn,is convinced 007 was a steel wheeler,in his book Tigers on the western front,there is a coloured plate of 007,comrades of Wittmann have stated he hated command tanks due to their limited ammo capacity and on the day of his death,he is attributed as saying he would meet his end on that very day,but that may be a soldiers tale?Interestingly all the photos i have seen from Wittmann 2nd Company in Normandy,show only steel wheelers.K&C should make a new more accurate Wittmann Tiger as a limited edition,to satisfy all the Wittmann enthusiasts.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Jean Restayn,is convinced 007 was a steel wheeler,in his book Tigers on the western front,there is a coloured plate of 007,comrades of Wittmann have stated he hated command tanks due to their limited ammo capacity and on the day of his death,he is attributed as saying he would meet his end on that very day,but that may be a soldiers tale?Interestingly all the photos i have seen from Wittmann 2nd Company in Normandy,show only steel wheelers.K&C should make a new more accurate Wittmann Tiger as a limited edition,to satisfy all the Wittmann enthusiasts.

Good idea. This one at a full 1/30 scale with zimmerit and steel wheels.

Terry

 

[fmethorst]

I can recall an article in AFV monthly on the subject of Wittman and 007,in the article there were pictures of parts retrieved from 007 and one of the items pictured was a single steel wheel,there were 5 tigers knocked out that day,so you may need to conjecture whether that steel wheel belonged to 007,records show that that 101 st batt,headquarters company received 1 steel wheeled tiger to add to its 2 older styled tigers in April 1944,we can conjecture that the battalion commander ,Von Westernhagen,would want the newer version for himself,if so the tiger assigned to him was numbered 007 and therefore a steel wheeled version,hope this helps.

Are you saying 1 steel wheeled Panzerbefehlswagen Tiger Ausf.E was delivered in April '44? This would have been part of the batch of 25 Tigers s.SS.Pz.Abt.101 received on that date. If that is the case then I have a picture of 009 with steel wheels which would account for the tank you mentioned.

This is consistent with an organizational chart I have for the unit from January 9 1944 which shows only 007 and 008 in the command section at that point.

Prior to April s.SS.Pz.Abt.101 received 10 Tigers in January '44 and 10 in October '43. Steel wheels appeared February '44 so they could only have been included in the batch of 25 from April '44.

Based on the evidence I would say 007 was a mid version.

 

[kilted vampire]

Jean Restayn,is convinced 007 was a steel wheeler,in his book Tigers on the western front,there is a coloured plate of 007,comrades of Wittmann have stated he hated command tanks due to their limited ammo capacity and on the day of his death,he is attributed as saying he would meet his end on that very day,but that may be a soldiers tale?Interestingly all the photos i have seen from Wittmann 2nd Company in Normandy,show only steel wheelers.K&C should make a new more accurate Wittmann Tiger as a limited edition,to satisfy all the Wittmann enthusiasts.

I'll buy one if the price is right.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Are you saying 1 steel wheeled Panzerbefehlswagen Tiger Ausf.E was delivered in April '44? This would have been part of the batch of 25 Tigers s.SS.Pz.Abt.101 received on that date. If that is the case then I have a picture of 009 with steel wheels which would account for the tank you mentioned.

This is consistent with an organizational chart I have for the unit from January 9 1944 which shows only 007 and 008 in the command section at that point.

Prior to April s.SS.Pz.Abt.101 received 10 Tigers in January '44 and 10 in October '43. Steel wheels appeared February '44 so they could only have been included in the batch of 25 from April '44.

Based on the evidence I would say 007 was a mid version.

So you are saying the K&C model is correct as a mid-production Tiger with rubber rimmed wheels, except for not having zimmerit.

Terry

 

[Vezzolf]

K/C needs to re-make a Wittman Tiger with kill rings on the gun.....Andy it's time for the tiger to roar.........An Eastern Front Tiger would also be most desireable

 

[fmethorst]

So you are saying the K&C model is correct as a mid-production Tiger with rubber rimmed wheels, except for not having zimmerit.

Terry

Yes, that would appear to be the case.

On January 9 1944 the unit consisted of the command section with 007 and 008 and an oversize 3rd Company with 18 Tigers, all of them with rubber rimmed wheels. After the delivery in April all of 2nd Company and two platoons of 1st Company plus the company command tanks for those companies were equipped with steel wheels. The 3rd platoon of the 1st Company consisted of the 4th Platoon from the previously oversized 3rd Company and thus had rubber rimmed wheels.

So I believe it breaks down like this:

Command section
007 - Mid
008 - Mid
009 - Late

1st Company
104 - Late
105 - Late
1st Platoon - Late
2nd Platoon - Late
3rd Platoon - Mid

2nd Company
204 - Late
205 - Late
1st Platoon - Late
2nd Platoon - Late
3rd Platoon - Late

3rd Company
304 - Mid
305 - Mid
1st Platoon - Mid
2nd Platoon - Mid
3rd Platoon - Mid

 

[tullock]

As of 1st june 1944 the Bn. Staff comprised 007 and 008 with rubber rims.009with steel.
1st Company....105-124 had steel.131-134 had rubber.
2nd Company....All 14 tigers had steel.
3rd Company.... All 14 tigers had rubber.

So Wittman's own command tiger '205' had steel wheels.The Bn.Staff Tiger he died in '007' had rubber.All igers had zimmerit.
Jeff

 

[tullock]

Drat Frank.You got there 2 minutes before me!!!

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Good info Frank and Jeff.

Terry