king and country tiger 1 wittmann (1 Viewer)

Great discussion. The depth of knowledge and detail that our forum members have is unreal. I salute you all.:D -- Al
 
For us novices,

Zimmerit is a nonmagnetic coating us to prevent magnetic mines. Is this correct?


Does anyone have a close up picture of each type of wheel being discussed.

I am enjoying this discussion very much, it is very informative.

Brian
 
Would you guys like to see another 007?
I'd quite like to see his Tiger from Villers Bocage. I think that was 222 though I get my info from Dragon Armor!

I beleive there is some speculation on that number too.
 
Eazy said:
Would you guys like to see another 007?
I'd quite like to see his Tiger from Villers Bocage. I think that was 222 though I get my info from Dragon Armor!

I beleive there is some speculation on that number too.
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Collector's Showcase made a very fine example of this very Tiger 222. Should still be available from dealers. -- lancer
 
Though it's a nice model I think the zimmerit seems to be a bit too pronounced on the CS version.
It'd be nice to see a K&C or Figarti version I think.
Could make a good dio with the new tommies, the Bedford truck and the Cromwell being confronted by 222. Ouch! :eek:

Then to complement that have 007 confronted by the Figarti Firefly and the K&C Sherman! Yay! :)
 
Deitz said:
For us novices,

Zimmerit is a nonmagnetic coating us to prevent magnetic mines. Is this correct?


Does anyone have a close up picture of each type of wheel being discussed.

I am enjoying this discussion very much, it is very informative.

Brian
Click to expand...

That's correct Brian.

http://www.panzerworld.net/zimmerit

Late (Steel Wheel)

http://www.alanhamby.com/late.shtml

Mid (Rubber Rimmed Wheel)

http://www.alanhamby.com/mid.shtml

The Late Steel Wheel variant omitted the outer set of road wheels so the wheels look recessed relative to the edge of the track.
 
FMETHORST and TULLOCK,could you provide us with the source of your interesting info on 007,the model type of 007 has been debated for many years on many forums,with many different "Experts" arriving at different "Expert" conclusions and here we are offering the "Definitive Answer"on this forum,quite amazing really.Cant imagine what Jean Restayn and Patrick Agte would think of the info you both provided,since neither of these Authors could provide the same info in their renowned works on the same subject,in particular Mr Agte whose 568 page book on "Michael Wittmann And The Tiger Tank Commanders Of The Leibstandarte",could not provide this interesting info,Mr Restayn was so confident of his info he provided an "Authorative" colour plate in "Tiger Tanks On The Western Front" of 007 as a steel wheeler.Your info seems on the surface,to cast doubt on previously deemed "Authorative Published Information" on the subject and it would be useful to see your source of information.
 
FORLONHOPER.I don't know about fmethhorst but I obtained my info on 501 ss from the original MELDUNG(strength charts) for 14th October 1943 to June 1944 and the delivery tables for the same period.I also consulted the definitive work on this subject....TIGERS IN COMBAT by Wolfgang Schneider which also lists all deliveries and variants among the tigers of SS 501.It really is a pity that 'EXPERTS' like Jean Restayn and Patrick Agte couldn't indulge in proper research into this fascinating subject.Is it not also most coincidental that both FMETHORST'S findings and mine are identical!
Your servant Jeff
 
My primary source for unit information in this case was Tigers in Combat II by Wolfgang Schneider (original hard cover version). His sources include the Bundesarchiv (Militararchiv) in Freiburg. There is a certain irony that while scanning the credits of this excellent book I discovered that all color artwork and the cover art were produced but none other than Jean Restayn.

Also if you read the acknowledgements in the back of "Tiger I on the Western Front" and "Tiger I on the Eastern Front" (I have both of these as well) Jean acknowledges the contributions of Wolfgang Schneider so the discrepency seems odd because these guys appear to talk to one another.

As for technical information on the Tiger tank itself I refer to the excellent three book series by Thomas Jentz and Hilary Doyle "Germany's Tiger Tanks - D.W. to Tiger I: Design Production and Modifications", "Germany's Tiger Tanks - VK45.02 to Tiger II: Design Production and Modifications" and lastly " Germany's Tiger Tanks - Tiger I & II Combat Tactics".
 
With regard to Tigers it may be of interest to forum members how many ancillary vehicles just one Tiger battalion needed to remain active in the field.On 1st June 1944 SS 501 had the following.....
28 officers
262 NCO's
701 Privates
46 Hiwis (Russian ex-POWs)
45 Tiger 1s
8 251 Armoured halftracks (radio,engineer and medical vehicles)
5 250 Armoured halftracks (recce vehicles)
4 Kettenkrads
16 Motorcycles with sidecars
20 Solo motorcycles
31 Cross-country type field cars (VW, Horche etc)
34 Civilian type cars (commandeered vehicles)
21 Maultiers (Semi-tracked trucks)
36 Cross-country type trucks
88 Ordinary trucks
7 One ton prime-movers
16 Heavy prime-movers (7-18 tonnes)
3 sdkfz 7/1 (quad flak)
2 Bergepanthers
29 Light MGs (not tank mounted)
4 Heavy MGs
1144 rifles and pistols
Stocks of ammunition were put at....2140 A/T shells(88mm),580,000 MG rounds and 36,000 rifle and pistol rounds.
The Battalion also reported a lack of 4 mechanics,3 radio operators,3 drivers,2 medical staff and 8 softskin vehicle drivers.

Later,for the Ardennes offensive,the battalion would recieve a total of 5 bergepanthers and 8 Flakpanzers.

Jeff
 
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Many thanks for your source info,like you both said its a pity restayn and agte could not do their job ,iam just pleased the 007 poduction version has been settled on this forum,when it couldnt be settled on any forums dedicated to Tigers,even after years of discussion,there will be many a disgruntled scale modeller out there,whose modeller 007 as a steel wheeler thanks to Restayn,cant help wondering why all the "Experts" didnt consult the info you both have,especially if Restayn and Schneider were in consultation with each other on the subject,may never know the answer to that or i may contact the publishers of their work with that question,would be interesting to hear their input on this,i will of course quote your reference material in evidence,many thanks from an armour enthusiast.
 
It really is a question only Mr. Restayn could answer.

To quote the caption of the color plate from Restayn's "Tiger I on the Western Front":

"...Tiger 007 and 008 were equipped with steel-rimmed road wheels whereas 009 still has the rubber lined wheels..."

What is really quite odd is there is a color plate in Schneider's "Tigers in Combat II" drawn by Restayn depicting 009 as a steel wheeler AND the Schneider book was released 3 years prior to the Restayn book.

Here is a picture of 009

Tiger_009.jpg
 
Now that the rubber rimmed wheels on 007 are believed to be correct on the K&C model, I wonder why there was no zimmerit. As far as I can tell, only one K&C model prior to Wittmann's Last Tiger had zimmerit, and it was pretty crude. It was WS015 Tiger Tank With Michael Wittmann. I wonder if not having the zimmerit on 007 was a production decision?

Terry
 
fmethorst said:
It really is a question only Mr. Restayn could answer.

To quote the caption of the color plate from Restayn's "Tiger I on the Western Front":

"...Tiger 007 and 008 were equipped with steel-rimmed road wheels whereas 009 still has the rubber lined wheels..."

What is really quite odd is there is a color plate in Schneider's "Tigers in Combat II" drawn by Restayn depicting 009 as a steel wheeler AND the Schneider book was released 3 years prior to the Restayn book.

Here is a picture of 009

Tiger_009.jpg
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As with any history book filled with old photos and lots of data, things can get reversed, errors made and not caught on proffreading. The sentance could easily have been intended to say "...Tiger 009 was equipped with steel-rimmed road wheels whereas 007 and 008 still had the rubber lined wheels..."

Terry
 
Phantom Warrior said:
Now that the rubber rimmed wheels on 007 are believed to be correct on the K&C model, I wonder why there was no zimmerit. As far as I can tell, only one K&C model prior to Wittmann's Last Tiger had zimmerit, and it was pretty crude. It was WS015 Tiger Tank With Michael Wittmann. I wonder if not having the zimmerit on 007 was a production decision?

Terry
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WS015 might be crude but it got a number of things correct for 205. Late model (Steel Wheels), zimmerit and red numerals outlined in white

WS015 and WS043
 

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fmethorst said:
WS015 might be crude but it got a number of things correct for 205. Late model (Steel Wheels), zimmerit and red numerals outlined in white

WS015 and WS043
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Yes it did portray the key features. By crude, I meant is it possible K&C had not yet perfected casting a zimmerit surface and deliberately had no zimmerit on 007?

Terry
 
K/C Wittmann 007 does not even compare to the Tunsian Tiger in detail and paint......Hopefully K/C will produce more Tiger Versions to keep with the times (in terms of quality, accuracy and detail).....I have very little desire to purchase older outdated K/C tiger tanks......the K/C Winter Tiger and the Tunsian were the best versions they ever produced.....I personnally hope to see more from K/C in the near future....but if not I am sure other manufacturers will step up to the plate and produce a 1:30 scale Tiger.
 
Vezzolf said:
K/C Wittmann 007 does not even compare to the Tunsian Tiger in detail and paint......Hopefully K/C will produce more Tiger Versions to keep with the times (in terms of quality, accuracy and detail).....I have very little desire to purchase older outdated K/C tiger tanks......the K/C Winter Tiger and the Tunsian were the best versions they ever produced.....I personnally hope to see more from K/C in the near future....but if not I am sure other manufacturers will step up to the plate and produce a 1:30 scale Tiger.
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I agree with you, however other manufacturers have made Tiger tanks - the Figarti tiger matches the small size of the K&C winter and Wittmann Tigers, and CS ha a 1/30 scale Tiger. I agree that the Tunisian Tiger is K&Cs best so far but the Winter Tiger is the best looking IMO.

Terry

Terry
 
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