king and country tiger 1 wittmann (1 Viewer)

[jbonzo1]

This thread is a tremendous read. Thanks to everyone for sharing the info.

 

[nmrocks]

K/C Wittmann 007 does not even compare to the Tunsian Tiger in detail and paint......Hopefully K/C will produce more Tiger Versions to keep with the times (in terms of quality, accuracy and detail).....I have very little desire to purchase older outdated K/C tiger tanks......the K/C Winter Tiger and the Tunsian were the best versions they ever produced.....I personnally hope to see more from K/C in the near future....but if not I am sure other manufacturers will step up to the plate and produce a 1:30 scale Tiger.

I agree totally, thats why I had Alex (Alexdakar) do a repaint of the Tunisian Tiger to the early Wittman Version.
My favorite piece, can't recommend more highly, if you want something very special Alex is the man!

 

[Desertkiwi]

Fantastic read guys!! Learning heaps Thanks for sharing all the pic's and links too.....magic

Cheers Toddy

 

[wayne556517]

I agree totally, thats why I had Alex (Alexdakar) do a repaint of the Tunisian Tiger to the early Wittman Version.
My favorite piece, can't recommend more highly, if you want something very special Alex is the man!

WOW i want one.

 

[fmethorst]

I agree totally, thats why I had Alex (Alexdakar) do a repaint of the Tunisian Tiger to the early Wittman Version.
My favorite piece, can't recommend more highly, if you want something very special Alex is the man!

Alex's work is truly astonishing. This is a great repaint. Good choice nmrocks.

There is a picture of the entire crew standing in front of this tank with the barrel overhead displaying the 88 kill rings (the heavy ones are 10)

 

[nasirkasmani]

Brigadefuhrer Wisch (not pictured) and Jochen Peiper congratulating Wittmann and his crew on the 88 kills.

 

[Vezzolf]

I agree totally, thats why I had Alex (Alexdakar) do a repaint of the Tunisian Tiger to the early Wittman Version.
My favorite piece, can't recommend more highly, if you want something very special Alex is the man!

Very Nice re-paint.....enjoy......Why can't K/C do this??

 

[Blowtorch]

It really is a question only Mr. Restayn could answer.

You may want to look into After the Battle books regarding Wittman. Much original research gets published in those books & mags. iirc, Jean Paul Pallud, the guy who wrote the famous Bulge book also did work on Wittman.

 

[panda1gen]

You may want to look into After the Battle books regarding Wittman. Much original research gets published in those books & mags. iirc, Jean Paul Pallud, the guy who wrote the famous Bulge book also did work on Wittman.

I have some of those and 'Panzers in Normandy', which is also a super book (got it at the tank musem in Bovingdon UK), but the level of detail given here by you and other members is very helpful. We can't have all the books ourselves!

Thanks to all those who contribute.

 

[uksubs]

I have some of those and 'Panzers in Normandy', which is also a super book (got it at the tank musem in Bovingdon UK), but the level of detail given here by you and other members is very helpful. We can't have all the books ourselves!

Thanks to all those who contribute.

After the Battle books are great

 

[lancer]

If you are interested in Wittmann, you must get the 'After The Battle' title "Villers-Bocage Through the Lens of the German War Photographer" by Daniel Taylor done in 1999 and still available. It is a written and photo history of that action and pretty well is the final word on it. A great treasury of photos, in particular. You won't be let down. -- lancer

 

[Blowtorch]

I have some of those and 'Panzers in Normandy', which is also a super book (got it at the tank musem in Bovingdon UK), but the level of detail given here by you and other members is very helpful. We can't have all the books ourselves!

Thanks to all those who contribute.

Thanks, but what I meant is that the clues for Restayn's change in opinion might be contained in those books. If someone has them perhaps they could chime in?

 

[tullock]

I have some of those and 'Panzers in Normandy', which is also a super book (got it at the tank musem in Bovingdon UK), but the level of detail given here by you and other members is very helpful. We can't have all the books ourselves!

Thanks to all those who contribute.

The problem with 'Panzers In Normandy' is the strength charts which are wholly inaccurate.Where he obtained the info from I have no idea.However,as a basic guide to German Panzer units,it's a good starting point.
Jeff

 

[Blowtorch]

The problem with 'Panzers In Normandy' is the strength charts which are wholly inaccurate.Where he obtained the info from I have no idea.However,as a basic guide to German Panzer units,it's a good starting point.
Jeff

Yeah, I can't vouch for that but I can make a few general statements regarding ATB. Their primary focus is geography/photo/image research. The history portion of the publications might be weak because it is more cheap filling than the main course; a lot less effort goes into it.

But on the flip side, the Bundesarchiv has the lions share of the true data. Much of it wasn't photocopied at the US National Archives, so unless an author physically goes to Freiburg he will probably be missing out on a lot of good stuff. In my experience, most American & Brit authors avoid non-English archives. Frenchies on the other hand do use the BA-MA, and of course the ECPA in Paris which has more one of a kind resources on the German military not available anywhere else.

So if a Frenchie pulls a Crazy Ivan, I am always curious to find out why.

 

[forlornhoper]

Does anyone have a pre 8.8.44 photo of Tiger 007,it has been said on the historical accuracy thread that there are dozens of photos of 007 in existence ? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Does anyone have a pre 8.8.44 photo of Tiger 007,it has been said on the historical accuracy thread that there are dozens of photos of 007 in existence ? Any help would be appreciated.

I have looked but have not found any that show what version of tank it is. And to highlight the historical debate, here are 2 photos which show 007 as both a late tiger without zimmerit and with steel wheels and after it was destroyed, with zimmerit and what looks like rubber wheels.

However, both photos are dioramas done by expert modelers who obviously have not agreed on the same Tiger configuration. So if you see a definitive 007 photo, be careful it is not a model.

Terry

 

[forlornhoper]

Terry,i have tried the BUNDESARCHIV online without success ,i even searched under the chassis no 250802,if iam correct,and under Von Westernhagen,but i may have done it the wrong way,my computer skills are not great LOL.A recent entry on the TRACK LINK site shows 007 as a steel wheeler ,as do other entries on the sites gallery,so all we need is a definitive actual photo and we can put this to bed . ken ps check out my post in the Historical Accuracy thread.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry,i have tried the BUNDESARCHIV online without success ,i even searched under the chassis no 250802,if iam correct,and under Von Westernhagen,but i may have done it the wrong way,my computer skills are not great LOL.A recent entry on the TRACK LINK site shows 007 as a steel wheeler ,as do other entries on the sites gallery,so all we need is a definitive actual photo and we can put this to bed . ken ps check out my post in the Historical Accuracy thread.

I am pretty good at internet searches, but have never found anything close to a definitive, documented 007 photo. As for the Track Link modelers, there are lots of Tiger models called early, mid or late which have features not found on the actual tank - so there is some historical inaccuracies or contradictions even among those expert modelers. I think part of the problem, is that 007 was not Wittmann's usual tank so there are really few photos of it - perhaps none other than after it was destroyed.

For now, I am going to accept the research of fmethorst and tullock as the most compelling evidence I have seen.

Terry

 

[fmethorst]

Terry,i have tried the BUNDESARCHIV online without success ,i even searched under the chassis no 250802,if iam correct,and under Von Westernhagen,but i may have done it the wrong way,my computer skills are not great LOL.A recent entry on the TRACK LINK site shows 007 as a steel wheeler ,as do other entries on the sites gallery,so all we need is a definitive actual photo and we can put this to bed . ken ps check out my post in the Historical Accuracy thread.

I have not seen another photo of 007, at least not one showing the whole vehicle, other than the one we have all seen.

Now you mention Fahrgestell (chassis) number 250802.

Germany's Tiger Tanks - D.W. to Tiger I: Design, Production and Modifications has this to say on the subject of steel wheels:

"Starting with Fgst.Nr.250822 in February 1944 Pz.Kpfw.Tiger, Ausfuehrung E were outfitted with gummigefedetern Stahllauftrollen (rubber-cushioned steel-tired roadwheels)"

There is also a production chart that shows the last chassis number produced in December 1943 was 250723 and the last chassis number produced in January 1944 was 250816. This places the production of 250802 in January 1944 prior to the introduction of steel wheels.

If 250802 is the correct chassis number then this presents a problem because the last delivery of Mid-Production Tigers for s.SS.Pz.Abt.101 arrived at Mons, Belgium Jan.9,1944 and is reported to have included two command tanks. Since this would have shipped earlier in January this gives no time for the tank to be produced.

Where did the chassis number 250802 come from?

 

[Blowtorch]

both photos are dioramas done by expert modelers who obviously have not agreed on the same Tiger configuration. So if you see a definitive 007 photo, be careful it is not a model.

Terry

The lower model (turret in the field) is based on a real photo which is on page 183 of the ATB book "Panzers in Normandy". If there is one photo, there are probably more in the file. Email the editor at ATB & I'm sure he will tell you where the file can be located.