KING & COUNTRY Dispatches -- November 2018 (2 Viewers)

[PanzerAce1944]

Interesting comments on the "Crucifiction"set. How many times though have we seen this image on Holy crosses !
Hand Made History here....nothing more and nothing less !

Wayne

 

[arnhem44mad]

In a world of snowflakes one must always remain cool!

Scott

 

[jazzeum]

This set caused a bit of a furor when first issued, with some saying they wouldn't have it in their collection.



The execution of the Viet Cong doesn't actually show him being executed, although there are after photos that I have seen. As long as the set is not graphic, I wouldn't have an issue with it as it is an iconic photo, one that changed a lot of minds about our participation in the War. Even Eddie Adams, the photographer, didn't think it was that big a deal. He said it was just another death of lots of other deaths. Maybe a bit callow, but truthful.

 

[Horus]

In a world of snowflakes one must always remain cool!

Scott

Hahaha ! Vey amusing Scott !

Steve

 

[Napoleon1er]

I disagree with the execution set, think it is a few steps too far, would you include Mussolini death as a set? Sets which represent the arrival of Jews and guards at a concentration camp! The My Lia massacre by American troops, do we need a figure of Lt Calley, I think not.

Interesting comments on the "Crucifiction"set. How many times though have we seen this image on Holy crosses !
Hand Made History here....nothing more and nothing less !

Wayne

Interesting... for a couple thousand years, no one complains about the myriad figures of the Jew getting crucified, but you make one set of a goy meeting the same grizzly fate, and people start kvelling!


In case anyone is tempted to take this comment seriously, it was meant as a joke. ^&grin

 

[arnhem44mad]

Hahaha ! Vey amusing Scott !

Steve

^&grin

Hope you are well bud!

Scott

 

[Panzer ace]

The execution of the Viet Cong doesn't actually show him being executed, although there are after photos that I have seen. As long as the set is not graphic, I wouldn't have an issue with it as it is an iconic photo, one that changed a lot of minds about our participation in the War. Even Eddie Adams, the photographer, didn't think it was that big a deal. He said it was just another death of lots of other deaths. Maybe a bit callow, but truthful.

More from Eddie Adams on the iconic photo:

"Two people died in that photograph: the recipient of the bullet and General Nguyen Ngoc Loan. The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general with my camera. Still photographs are the most powerful weapons in the world. People believe them; but photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They are only half-truths. ... What the photograph didn't say was, "What would you do if you were the general at that time and place on that hot day, and you caught the so-called bad guy after he blew away one, two or three American people?".... This picture really messed up his life. He never blamed me. He told me if I hadn't taken the picture, someone else would have, but I've felt bad for him and his family for a long time. ... I sent flowers when I heard that he had died and wrote, "I'm sorry. There are tears in my eyes."

I for one would buy the set if K&C ever made it. In the meantime I will continue to collect the entire Vietnam range.

 

[King & Country]

More from Eddie Adams on the iconic photo:

"Two people died in that photograph: the recipient of the bullet and General Nguyen Ngoc Loan. The general killed the Viet Cong; I killed the general with my camera. Still photographs are the most powerful weapons in the world. People believe them; but photographs do lie, even without manipulation. They are only half-truths. ... What the photograph didn't say was, "What would you do if you were the general at that time and place on that hot day, and you caught the so-called bad guy after he blew away one, two or three American people?".... This picture really messed up his life. He never blamed me. He told me if I hadn't taken the picture, someone else would have, but I've felt bad for him and his family for a long time. ... I sent flowers when I heard that he had died and wrote, "I'm sorry. There are tears in my eyes."

I for one would buy the set if K&C ever made it. In the meantime I will continue to collect the entire Vietnam range.

Excellent post, Jason...

That famous, or infamous if you prefer, photo went around the world back in the day and was particularly used by opponents of the Vietnam War to illustrate and maybe denigrate South Vietnam's effort to defend its freedom and U.S. involvement in the conflict.

Less well known was the fact that the Viet Cong prisoner had been just captured after killing a South Vietnamese officer and his wife, together with their children, in the most brutal fashion!

While not excusing the actual execution...It goes a long way to explaining the actual situation on the ground on the actual day.
Photos don't perhaps lie...But they can be manipulated to bend the truth to the requirements of the media that choose to publish or reproduce them.

Best wishes,
Andy.

 

[Panzer ace]

Excellent post, Jason...

That famous, or infamous if you prefer, photo went around the world back in the day and was particularly used by opponents of the Vietnam War to illustrate and maybe denigrate South Vietnam's effort to defend its freedom and U.S. involvement in the conflict.

Less well known was the fact that the Viet Cong prisoner had been just captured after killing a South Vietnamese officer and his wife, together with their children, in the most brutal fashion!

While not excusing the actual execution...It goes a long way to explaining the actual situation on the ground on the actual day.
Photos don't perhaps lie...But they can be manipulated to bend the truth to the requirements of the media that choose to publish or reproduce them.

Best wishes,
Andy.

Andy:

One of the greatest things about K&C is its ability to motivate me to learn even more history and the Vietnam line is a prime example of that! I am ashamed to admit that I knew little if anything about the Tet Offensive before the release of your figures. Thanks to you and some member's book suggestions I learned quite a bit in a short time.

The aforementioned photograph is another example of that. Before the K&C Vietnam release the Eddie Adams' photograph was just that, a photograph. Now I have read extensively about the photographer as well as the individuals depicted in his most famous work.

-Jason

 

[cantinetozzo]

Excellent post, Jason...

That famous, or infamous if you prefer, photo went around the world back in the day and was particularly used by opponents of the Vietnam War to illustrate and maybe denigrate South Vietnam's effort to defend its freedom and U.S. involvement in the conflict.

Less well known was the fact that the Viet Cong prisoner had been just captured after killing a South Vietnamese officer and his wife, together with their children, in the most brutal fashion!

While not excusing the actual execution...It goes a long way to explaining the actual situation on the ground on the actual day.
Photos don't perhaps lie...But they can be manipulated to bend the truth to the requirements of the media that choose to publish or reproduce them.

Best wishes,
Andy.

I must add to the story that the executed VC killed all these people who were linked to the police general Nguyen Ngoc Loan. Loan was a great friend of the officer killed, and godfather of the children... So i think that the truth behind a photo tells much more...Yes, that general (who later lost a leg if i remember, during the Mini Tet offensive of few months after ) was destroyed by that pic.

 

[Horus]

Andy:

One of the greatest things about K&C is its ability to motivate me to learn even more history and the Vietnam line is a prime example of that! I am ashamed to admit that I knew little if anything about the Tet Offensive before the release of your figures. Thanks to you and some member's book suggestions I learned quite a bit in a short time.

The aforementioned photograph is another example of that. Before the K&C Vietnam release the Eddie Adams' photograph was just that, a photograph. Now I have read extensively about the photographer as well as the individuals depicted in his most famous work.

-Jason

One of K&C's main posters for Vietnam feature the War Photographer Don McCullin.
Another Photographer who's photos from the Tet offensive that is worth looking out is John Olson, who like Don McCullin took some iconic Vietnam war photos in Hue including Delta Company's assault and capture of the Dong Ba gate tower by Sgt "Cajun Bob" Thoms and depleted squad.
Worth looking up the action of this Heroic Marine.

Steve

 

[Horus]

One of K&C's main posters for Vietnam feature the War Photographer Don McCullin.
Another Photographer who's photos from the Tet offensive that is worth looking out is John Olson, who like Don McCullin took some iconic Vietnam war photos in Hue including Delta Company's assault and capture of the Dong Ba gate tower by Sgt "Cajun Bob" Thoms and depleted squad.
Worth looking up the action of this Heroic Marine.

Steve

Robert L. Thoms

HOME OF RECORD:

Baton Rouge, Louisiana


AWARDS BY DATE OF ACTION: 1 of 1

Silver Star

AWARDED FOR ACTIONS
DURING Vietnam War

Service: Marine Corps

Rank: Staff Sergeant

Battalion: 1st Battalion

Division: 1st Marine Division (Rein.), FMF

GENERAL ORDERS:


CITATION:

The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Silver Star to Staff Sergeant Robert L. Thoms (MCSN: 1951269), United States Marine Corps, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving as a Platoon Commander with Company D, First Battalion, Fifth Marines, FIRST Marine Division in connection with operations against the enemy in the Republic of Vietnam. On 15 February 1968 during Operations Hue City, Company D was assaulting the heavily defended Arch Tower along the fortified eastern wall of the Citadel when it came under intense enemy fire. Repeatedly exposing himself to the heavy volume of hand grenades and automatic weapons fire, Staff Sergeant Thons led a squad forward and skillfully maneuvered his men to within thirty meters of the objective. When his attack was momentarily halted due to casualties and the increasing intensity of hostile fire, he moved to the point of heaviest contact and aggressively led an assault against the tower. Although wounded by hand grenade fragments, Staff Sergeant Thoms selflessly refused medical treatment and resolutely continued the attack despite continuous North Vietnamese fire. Inspired by his fearless leadership and aggressive fighting spirit, his men successfully routed the enemy and seized the tower. After establishing a hasty defense, he redistributed ammunition and supervised the evacuation of the wounded. Despite intense North Vietnamese mortar and rocket fire throughout the night, he maintained his position until directed to withdraw. Wounded a second time by enemy mortar fragments, he steadfastly refused medical evacuation and remained with his platoon to lead it in an aggressive counterattack the following morning, completely routing the North Vietnamese. By his dynamic leadership, dauntless courage and selfless devotion to duty at great personal risk, Staff Sergeant Thoms contributed significantly to the defeat of the enemy and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and of the United States Naval Service.

 

[jazzeum]

If you’re interested in photographers, two of the best were Larry Burrows and Horst Faas. Another great one but not generally recognized was Catherine Leroy. See https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/28/opinion/vietnam-leroy-photoessay.html

Also, don’t forget Robert Capa, one of the greatest photographers ever. He was on assignment in Vietnam in 1954 when he was killed. See https://www.magnumphotos.com/newsroom/conflict/ropert-capa-indochina-war/

 

[Patton]

PLEASE tell me Father Brown, Hercule Flambeau, and G.K. Chesterton are next!

We need a dead body with a dagger in the back ....... or maybe 10 little indians.

(and no I wont be buying them)

 

[Patton]

Excellent post, Jason...

That famous, or infamous if you prefer, photo went around the world back in the day and was particularly used by opponents of the Vietnam War to illustrate and maybe denigrate South Vietnam's effort to defend its freedom and U.S. involvement in the conflict.

Less well known was the fact that the Viet Cong prisoner had been just captured after killing a South Vietnamese officer and his wife, together with their children, in the most brutal fashion!

While not excusing the actual execution...It goes a long way to explaining the actual situation on the ground on the actual day.
Photos don't perhaps lie...But they can be manipulated to bend the truth to the requirements of the media that choose to publish or reproduce them.

Best wishes,
Andy.

And what about Hanoi "Jenny" stanfing next to an NVA AA battery ???

 

[King & Country]

And what about Hanoi "Jenny" stanfing next to an NVA AA battery ???

Perhaps you mean 'Hanoi Jane'...And I think she was actually photographed wearing a Russian-style steel helmet and sitting in one of the gunner's positions...A pose she very much regrets today but back then seemed quite happy to adopt.
Andy.

 

[tdubel]

Perhaps you mean 'Hanoi Jane'...And I think she was actually photographed wearing a Russian-style steel helmet and sitting in one of the gunner's positions...A pose she very much regrets today but back then seemed quite happy to adopt.
Andy.

This is one figure we don't need, I cringe when I see her on television to this day. I was brought up in a household where she will always be UnAmerican. She can never make up for that in my book> I am all about freedom of speech and remembering history, I am just not sure she warrants the attention scholarly, socially, etc.
TD

 

[Horus]

And what about Hanoi "Jenny" stanfing next to an NVA AA battery ???

Perhaps seen as a less controversial figure today, but seen as a traitor by American servicemen serving in Vietnam then and still regarded as such by some.
To those who were there, it would of felt like a slap in the face.

Steve

 

[uksubs]

This is one figure we don't need, I cringe when I see her on television to this day. I was brought up in a household where she will always be UnAmerican. She can never make up for that in my book> I am all about freedom of speech and remembering history, I am just not sure she warrants the attention scholarly, socially, etc.
TD

Agree 100%

 

[jazzeum]

I wouldn’t have an issue with the figure as it would be just as edgy as an execution set. They’re both iconic in their own way but I doubt we’d see a Hanoi Jane set because it wouldn’t sell enough, not to mention that there would be copyright issues as she is still very much alive.