Knights of the Sky (1 Viewer)

[ivanmoe]

Is this a plane capable of being made or would it be too difficult?

View attachment 165796

It's not so much a matter of difficulty as it is of cost. Jenkins has shown that it can do spectacular things with the materials and methods at its disposal. However, it's no accident that its most expensive models to date are also those with the most elaborate bracing, the S.E.5a and Albatros. In that same vein, I'd mention that JJ appeared to have hit a wall, cost-wise, with its factory partner over the SPAD 13 model. I'm not going to elaborate on the corners that were cut on the rigging on the SPAD. However, I'm fairly certain that the omissions were owed to the factory's concerns regarding the costs involved in attempting to manufacture a new type to the same standards that Jenkins established with its earlier releases. That said, a D.H.2 (and certainly a two seat F.E.2b) would likely be priced much higher than earlier manufactures even if the bracing and control cabling were greatly simplified. That's just the way that things are going over there now. If the dollars aren't there, the model doesn't get made. No bucks, no Buck Rogers!

-Moe

 

[lancer]

You two, Al and Moe, are the experts in my book. In the Nova show, they flew a FE 2B. The one below is from the greatwarflyingmachine.com, which is a museum in Brampton, Canada. This one was flown by Captain D Grinnel-Milne, No. 25 Sqn RFC, May 1916.

Is this a plane capable of being made or would it be too difficult?

View attachment 165796

Brad, Moe is quite right about the increased complexity of the wire bracings and the probable delicacy of the boom structure. As I mentioned earlier, I believe the FE 2b is much too large to make according to what seems to be current JJD standards. The Albatros has a wing span of 29'6". the DH-2, 28'3". Those are in the same ballpark. The FE2b has a wing span of 47'9", a huge increase in size over the other 2 planes. Length is also larger for the FE2b@ 32'3" as compared to 25'2" for the DH-2 and 24' for the Albatros. As things now stand, I think the FE2b is just too large, delicate, and complicated to do in a cost effective manner, as Moe states. The DH-2 is certainly in the correct size area, but it is complicated and delicate, as any pusher aircraft is going to be because of the boom structure and required rigging schemes. It is possible that this combination of factors is going to prove to costly to overcome when combined with what would have to be a very expensive shipping package to keep such a model safe in transit. -- Al

 

[lancer]

Were JJD to develop a D.H.2 to its own standards, I'm concerned that the manufacturing costs might place the model WAY out of the price range that we're accustomed to. I suggest this because the aircraft is drastically different from Jenkins' previous models in its bracing requirements:

We're all acquainted with the cabling that held the wings of Great War aircraft together. However, above we see something much more elaborate in terms of cabling. There is no fuselage. Rather, there's a gondola that houses the pilot's compartment and the engine. Aft of there, there's a frame held together with yet more wire. Also, the control cables are mostly external to the gondola, meaning yet more "wire" to run.

I'm just as juiced on the D.H.2 as the other posters. However, I suspect that Jenkins' factory partner might be rather less enthusiastic than collectors! If a practical antagonist to the Eindecker is desired, My vote is for the Nieuport 11.

-Moe

Moe, I would certainly throw my money to a Nieuport 11. As I have mentioned in the past, it is my favorite Allied fighter aircraft of WW1. It is a historic aircraft of great importance. It was instrumental in ending the Fokker Scourge and it was flown by all Allied nations at one point or another while it was a frontline fighter, not to mention one or two captured examples flown by the Germans. I would like to see it done because it was the initial mount of the Lafayette Escadrille and that is my favorite air unit of the war. I admit that if JJD made a Nieuport 11 that I would be willing to buy it in French, Belgian, Russian, and especially Lafayette colors. He could probably sell me a whole squadrons worth, certainly the original 7 Lafayette members. I can dream.:wink2:^&grin -- Al

 

[jazzeum]

Thank you both for the responses. I didn't realize the Fe 2b was that large. Throw that idea out the window {eek3} Maybe this will be something that TG has to do in wood in limited quantities.

I know John showed a prototype of an Eindecker in Chicago so I guess that's in our future.

 

[ivanmoe]

Summer 1919, Ernst and Lola touring occupied Paris with some young protoges:

Incroyable!


-Moe

 

[lancer]

Summer 1919, Ernst and Lola touring occupied Paris with some young protoges:

Incroyable!


-Moe

Alternative history can be interesting. Very nice photo of the sightseers and quite a refreshing change from the 1940 version. Now, if only Pickett's Charge had succeeded... -- Al

 

[Jack]

Alternative history can be interesting. Very nice photo of the sightseers and quite a refreshing change from the 1940 version. Now, if only Pickett's Charge had succeeded... -- Al

To my shame, I took a honeymoon photograph of my wife in much the same spot as AH got his in 1940. When I told her the significance of the shot I received my first stern talk as a married man. Ah ... good times!

 

[lancer]

I very recently was the recipient of good fortune. Thanks to the overtures of a fellow forum member (whose privacy I will respect) seeking information on a particular aircraft, I was able to come into possession of an unreleased prototype of a JJD WW1 aircraft. The aircraft is a Sopwith Camel, serial #B6299, assigned to Flt.Lt. Norman M. MacGregor of "B" flight, 10 Naval Squadron. This is the mystery Camel with the red and white nose/fuselage stripes that has been seen in a couple of JJD adverts. Upon contact, swap was agreed to and a deal completed. The model arrived in perfect condition and now resides next to Billy Barker and his Camel, on my shelf. Needless to say I am thrilled to have this model and very thankful to my friend for suggesting the deal. I have contacted John Jenkins about the history behind the model and he explained to me that it was an early sample stage model, experimenting with a different material for the lower wings. He decided not to use the material and it was not proceeded with. Because it was not produced in this form, there are only 2 such examples in existence. To my eye, this early sample is every bit as nice as the regular production and I can't see the difference in materials.
Norman MacGregor was a 7 victory ace whose main claim to fame occurred when he scored his 1st victory with Naval 10. On September 15, 1917, he claimed a triplane shot down out of control. The triplane was flown by Kurt Wolff, acting CO of Jasta 11 and a 33 victory ace. Wolff was CO of Jasta 11 while Manfred von Richthofen was away from the front and the aircraft he was flying was one of the first two operational triplanes that Fokker has sent to the front to be evaluated. One had gone to Richthofen and the other to Werner Voss (who would die in his tripe on Sept.23, 1917, in combat with 56 Squadron). Wolff was flying von Richthofen's tripe when he was shot down.
That's my latest news and acqiusition for the KotS.
-- Al

 

[ivanmoe]

I very recently was the recipient of good fortune. Thanks to the overtures of a fellow forum member (whose privacy I will respect) seeking information on a particular aircraft, I was able to come into possession of an unreleased prototype of a JJD WW1 aircraft. The aircraft is a Sopwith Camel, serial #B6299, assigned to Flt.Lt. Norman M. MacGregor of "B" flight, 10 Naval Squadron. This is the mystery Camel with the red and white nose/fuselage stripes that has been seen in a couple of JJD adverts. Upon contact, swap was agreed to and a deal completed. The model arrived in perfect condition and now resides next to Billy Barker and his Camel, on my shelf. Needless to say I am thrilled to have this model and very thankful to my friend for suggesting the deal. I have contacted John Jenkins about the history behind the model and he explained to me that it was an early sample stage model, experimenting with a different material for the lower wings. He decided not to use the material and it was not proceeded with. Because it was not produced in this form, there are only 2 such examples in existence. To my eye, this early sample is every bit as nice as the regular production and I can't see the difference in materials.
Norman MacGregor was a 7 victory ace whose main claim to fame occurred when he scored his 1st victory with Naval 10. On September 15, 1917, he claimed a triplane shot down out of control. The triplane was flown by Kurt Wolff, acting CO of Jasta 11 and a 33 victory ace. Wolff was CO of Jasta 11 while Manfred von Richthofen was away from the front and the aircraft he was flying was one of the first two operational triplanes that Fokker has sent to the front to be evaluated. One had gone to Richthofen and the other to Werner Voss (who would die in his tripe on Sept.23, 1917, in combat with 56 Squadron). Wolff was flying von Richthofen's tripe when he was shot down.
That's my latest news and acqiusition for the KotS.
-- Al

Al,

If it was anybody but you, I'd be completely annoyed. However, you truly are an indispensable asset to JJ and everyone who collects KotS. I can't thank you enough for being such a help and source of support to myself and others. Your willingness to embrace that which is to be admired in John's work, so selflessly and without pretense, offers a perfect model of how one ought to comport themselves in a setting like this. Thanks for everything and enjoy your model!

-Moe

 

[Go for Broke]

Good things come to good people.

 

[Jack]

Good things come to good people.

They do, don't they ... although this borders on a 'great thing' rather than merely 'good'!

 

[lancer]

Al,

If it was anybody but you, I'd be completely annoyed. However, you truly are an indispensable asset to JJ and everyone who collects KotS. I can't thank you enough for being such a help and source of support to myself and others. Your willingness to embrace that which is to be admired in John's work, so selflessly and without pretense, offers a perfect model of how one ought to comport themselves in a setting like this. Thanks for everything and enjoy your model!

-Moe

Moe, thanks very much for the kind words. I'm flattered. It is my pleasure and joy to share my enthusiasm for John's work and to share what knowledge I have on the subject with anyone that is interested. This forum and it's members are quite valuable to me. -- Al

 

[lancer]

Good things come to good people.

Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.:smile2: -- Al

 

[lancer]

They do, don't they ... although this borders on a 'great thing' rather than merely 'good'!

Jack, it sure does. I understated it, didn't I? Thank you.:smile2: -- Al

 

[Jack]

Jack, it sure does. I understated it, didn't I? Thank you.:smile2: -- Al

Humility as well ... now you do have everything!

 

[lancer]

Humility as well ... now you do have everything!

All I can really say is that the internet hides a myriad of character flaws.:wink2: -- Al

 

[ivanmoe]

All I can really say is that the internet hides a myriad of character flaws.:wink2: -- Al

Hey, I resemble that remark!:redface2:

-Moe

 

[ivanmoe]

Did an Ebay audit just now for JJD in "Toy Soldiers." 900 items were listed. Only one of them was a KotS/WW1 model airplane, the Goering Fokker D.VII @ $250 opening auction bid. There were a few pilot sets, but they were marked up smartly as well. Also available are some of the newer BGC and GGC sets, some of them at original retail. Didn't see much in the way of bargains, BTW.

-Moe

 

[lancer]

Did an Ebay audit just now for JJD in "Toy Soldiers." 900 items were listed. Only one of them was a KotS/WW1 model airplane, the Goering Fokker D.VII @ $250 opening auction bid. There were a few pilot sets, but they were marked up smartly as well. Also available are some of the newer BGC and GGC sets, some of them at original retail. Didn't see much in the way of bargains, BTW.

-Moe

Moe, I have noticed the same thing about the aircraft. They just don't show up very often. I guess those that have them want to hold onto them. There are quite a few of the aircraft that I have never seen listed at all. -- Al

 

[ivanmoe]

There are quite a few of the aircraft that I have never seen listed at all. -- Al

Hi Al,

I think that I've seen each of them, at least once, over the last three years. Of course, that likely means that I was tracking Ebay closer than yourself. There has even been an occasional bargain over there, but not many.

There's still product left in the conventional dealer channel, but it's largely late production, like the last of the tripes, or models that Jenkins did a second run of, like the Barker and Brown Camels.

I'm a little surprised that the Udet tripe is still available. If someone wanted to get their toes wet in KotS, that would make an excellent choice (for a limited entry into the range). Grouped together with Ernst, Lola, the Photographer and a GGC-hangar, the set would make for an excellent display under $500.

-Moe