I attended last year's chicago dinner and had a chance to see just who this 'Andy' is. His personality and his business sense and his genuine social warmth explained why he and his company are a success. Alot of people petitioned him for certain lines to be expanded..certain people guessed what airplanes would be issued soon. The question I enjoyed dealt with the future of our hobby. Having two tanks on a shelf..or four soldiers on a desk..or a cannon aimed at your wife's cookbook library is NOT a hobby. To me..it would be focusing on an era or a battle and not only displaying it, but, knowing something about it..and getting someone else interested in it. Andy said he saw indications that our hobby is alive and expanding. I am writing this to ask people on this board if they agree with this..in light of the increasing cost of purchasing vehicles and soldiers. I dont want to collect junk..I dont want to collect plastic..I know quality costs. Andy described our passion as a 'niche' hobby. What I fear is that as the costs continue to increase, a niche hobby will soon turn into an elite hobby. In my case, I have been collecting for just ten or so years..I use to be able to afford one vehicle a month..and soldiers to go with it. Now, the kid in me wants to do the same..but, the wife standing behind me wants to topple the curio cabinet toward my desk. The future of our hobby, it would seem, relies on younger people getting interested in it. How are we going to bring in young people to our hobby when a gorgeous tank costs almost two hundred dollars? Real young kids might PLAY with plastic figures..but, how do they transfer that fascination to such expensive items. I dont want to see our hobby just be that one or two items on a shelf in the corner. Any suggestions? I thought maybe manufacturers could donate a small diorama to select schools...grammar or junior high..but, to be frank, I dont even know if they teach history in our schools anymore. What do you think?
Last Years Chicago Dinner (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter paulzhere
- Start date
Northgate Woods
Sergeant Major
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- Apr 5, 2007
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- 1,525
Paulzhere mate,
A very interesting post, but one which is constantly re-hashed. With the every increasing cost of labour and raw materials prices are bound to rise. Our wages of course don't seem to be matching them.
I feel for Andy and his team trying to keep retail prices affordable but on the other hand trying to maintain a business profit.
You are lucky in the US with the K&C RRP being in US dollars. Spare a thought for the guys in the Mother Country (England) with all their taxes and the bloody VAT. Also spare a thought the lads downunder who when the exchange rate takes a dive we pay thru the nose.
Example: Currently USD$200 Tank equals AUD$222 with a conversion of 90 cents in the dollar. If we get a drop to 80 cents in the dollar we get AUD$250 for the same Tank. Eighteen months ago when the exchange rate was at 55 cents in the dollar, this Tank costed AUD$364. I for one nearly gave up collecting.
Chin up old man and keep on collecting like the rest of us mad fools.
Cheers Howard
A very interesting post, but one which is constantly re-hashed. With the every increasing cost of labour and raw materials prices are bound to rise. Our wages of course don't seem to be matching them.
I feel for Andy and his team trying to keep retail prices affordable but on the other hand trying to maintain a business profit.
You are lucky in the US with the K&C RRP being in US dollars. Spare a thought for the guys in the Mother Country (England) with all their taxes and the bloody VAT. Also spare a thought the lads downunder who when the exchange rate takes a dive we pay thru the nose.
Example: Currently USD$200 Tank equals AUD$222 with a conversion of 90 cents in the dollar. If we get a drop to 80 cents in the dollar we get AUD$250 for the same Tank. Eighteen months ago when the exchange rate was at 55 cents in the dollar, this Tank costed AUD$364. I for one nearly gave up collecting.
Chin up old man and keep on collecting like the rest of us mad fools.
Cheers Howard
I fully understand that to get something of value you have to pay something of value..and the added 'kicker' that some who collect pay a heavier burden because of exchange rates and taxes. People were petitioning Andy, that night, to produce a certain figure or a different focus on an established existing line...and, Andy said to the affect that the proposed idea was worthy, but, not marketable to turn a profit. So, Andy must produce quality, variety, and yet, he must make sure on the business end that the item must SELL. I understand that. I am just asking (maybe, the impossible) how do we prevent our hobby from becoming only for the elite? I purchased the majority of my k&C, Figarti, and Honour Bound at much cheaper prices..and, now, I like many others, must really pick and choose...and sell..and reload to fire. Again, I am not complaining about that. I am just wondering what steps can people like Andy take to continue producing quality, and, still, bring in a new bunch of 'nuts' such as myself at these relatively higher prices. There is that saying that: the tide takes all ships up. Well...in our hobby, thats not true. When the tide (prices) keeps rising, some ships just sink. I bet alot of dealers can attest to this. I just was wondering by my post, if there is a way to keep new collectors 'in the game'..and to hook those who havent started, to start. Bringinging in and keeping going lets Andy and other manufacturers not only survive, but it permits them to take more chances when they innovate. I was just looking for ways to maintain quality without leaving behind more or closing the door on others. Maybe thats an impossible task.
HistoryfortheAges
Staff Sergeant
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- 987
This is a very interesting post and I would be interested in reading many other comments on this subject. In my opinion, the manufacturers will eventually need to move production operations to cheaper places in order to keep the hobby affordable to the majority of current and new collectors. I too have been seriously collecting for about 10 years now and have acquired most of my collection at cheaper prices. I have slowed down purchases tremendously in the last couple of years as prices seemed have leaped upward amongst other things... but I will remain a collector in some capacity as I will not give up entirely on this hobby... a collection is whatever you make it! 
Why I wonder about the viability of our military miniatures collecting goes back to when I started..as I said..about ten years ago. I have two large display, glass cabinets and four small shelved units...all of these are filled. I crowded all shelves and need more cabinets..and I am sure most who read this have a similar problem. .....I read the Treefrog mantra about "bring your love of history alive."..and having three adult children, I would drag and would force each of them to take a tour of my war room. I am not a historian..I taught ten years in a grammar school before going blue collar....so, I used whatever knowledge of world war II I had to explain each shelved display. I could tell that no one was interested. Maybe I dont have the skill to make history come alive. Around that time, my youngest daughter was going to junior college..she was taking a survey course in geography. While studying for her finals in that class the night before, she asked me: "Dad, Canada is a country...right?" I just shook my head..and this was a college student asking?.....So, I guess price isnt the only determination if Andy, five years from now, will be selling the latest Tiger tank to a newbie. I have been out of teaching for over thirty years. Can somebody tell me if kids, today in junior high school or high school for that matter...are taught about world war II...or the Korean War..or Viet Nam? Even if prices somehow became reasonable, if younger adults dont know and dont care to know of their parents or grandparents sacrifice, why would they collect anything except unpaid parking tickets? Do any of you have teenagers or grand kids of that age..and do they even know who fought in World War II...or why it was fought..or who won?...I said I would like the collecting of military miniatures NOT to become an elite hobby..but, with little interest and no background, it WILL become a hobby of the rich and the old. Holy smokes, who will my wife sell these displays, if I take a fatal trip on an old LAH carton?...Do any of your kids or your young adults in the family have a knowledge of our history or an interest that might translate into a collecting hobby?
Northgate Woods
Sergeant Major
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- Apr 5, 2007
- Messages
- 1,525
Paulzhere mate,
You raise some very interesting points about the future of collecting. It has been discuss before that even though the majority of collectors are say 45 years plus, there are still a fair amount of youngish collectors in their late twenties and early thirties. At our last gathering of Aussie collectors in Brisbane in June, on Andy's visit, it was interesting to see all the new faces. Even young Sean who was the youngest member, only a primary school lad, had a fair idea of Military History and took great pleasure in helping his dad collect.
I have to agree with you, however, on the lack of Military History knowlege that the teenager of today has.
I mentioned on a previous post that I had two collecting goals in life. The first is to have a complete K&C matte collection by the end of 2011 and the second is when I retire in two and a bit years is to convert my place on business into a K&C Museum with access to school groups to teach them about Military History through the Ages. K&C's vast range covers most of these major areas of Military conflicts.
All you can do is keep spreading the word and continue collecting.
Cheers Howard
You raise some very interesting points about the future of collecting. It has been discuss before that even though the majority of collectors are say 45 years plus, there are still a fair amount of youngish collectors in their late twenties and early thirties. At our last gathering of Aussie collectors in Brisbane in June, on Andy's visit, it was interesting to see all the new faces. Even young Sean who was the youngest member, only a primary school lad, had a fair idea of Military History and took great pleasure in helping his dad collect.
I have to agree with you, however, on the lack of Military History knowlege that the teenager of today has.
I mentioned on a previous post that I had two collecting goals in life. The first is to have a complete K&C matte collection by the end of 2011 and the second is when I retire in two and a bit years is to convert my place on business into a K&C Museum with access to school groups to teach them about Military History through the Ages. K&C's vast range covers most of these major areas of Military conflicts.
All you can do is keep spreading the word and continue collecting.
Cheers Howard
My son was a history major in college...Although He has some interest in my TS hobby he is not likely to take up the hobby.....At age 25 he has other interests.....As Howard said most guys are 45+ in this hobby and need to make a good living to stay in this hobby....I'm not so sure how this hobby will grow in the future....it will likely remain a niche....hopefully not for just for the few who can afford it....increased prices have put significant pressure on collecting TS...I have been lately very discriminating in purchasing decisions.
Mitch
Major General
- Joined
- May 1, 2010
- Messages
- 13,519
Its a hard one this but, I think the hobby will evolve in its own way as it has for many years. I think, for me, the hobby is like (pardon the metaphor) a flight of stairs. We all probably started at the bottom (that does not mean quality wise) when we were kids and got plastics or for those older gentlemen metal or, both then progress on. The good thing with the hobby IMO is that you can stop at any level you are on and enjoy what you are doing or move into a different genre.
We are in the primarily adult section but, without having children I do not know what can be done to encourage younger members to join in as it would not be a hobby if its forced upon you. Your either interested or not it must be hard for manufacturers to know which way to go but, they can only offer the products and hope they are appreciated. I do think that it will get harder to attract new collectors if prices keep rising and maybe relocation of factory outlets may become necessary.
Wondering what the hobby will be in thirty years or so is as interesting as whats coming out next month but, I don't think we should worry too much. I wonder if those gentlemen who bought the early Britains etc used to discuss the where and hows of the future of the hobby like we do??
Mitch
We are in the primarily adult section but, without having children I do not know what can be done to encourage younger members to join in as it would not be a hobby if its forced upon you. Your either interested or not it must be hard for manufacturers to know which way to go but, they can only offer the products and hope they are appreciated. I do think that it will get harder to attract new collectors if prices keep rising and maybe relocation of factory outlets may become necessary.
Wondering what the hobby will be in thirty years or so is as interesting as whats coming out next month but, I don't think we should worry too much. I wonder if those gentlemen who bought the early Britains etc used to discuss the where and hows of the future of the hobby like we do??
Mitch
King & Country
Captain
- Joined
- May 23, 2005
- Messages
- 5,108
Hi Guys,
Well my friend “Paulzhere” has posted many excellent questions and points concerning the hobby and its future.
Whilst I fully appreciate his concerns about where we are all going as well as the woeful lack of “history education” in the West I am not nearly as worried as he appears to be. And here’s why…
1. “New People Coming Into the Hobby”
Every day we see fresh, new collectors buying… I see this in our two K&C store (Hong Kong and San Antonio). We get sales reports that tell us who is an existing buyer and who is brand-new.
Our own internet sales also attract new first-time buyers as well as our “regulars”.
And the most important salient fact: Our little hobby is known to a mere fraction of the kind of people who love the military history and all things related to it.
Every day interested people “stumble” across an internet site… see one of our adverts in a history magazine… visit a friend and see their collection… or walk into a toy soldier store.
That will not cease…
2. Young Collectors
There are not many but they are there… I know of several “Father & Son” collectors… Also collectors as young as 8 or 9 years visit and buy at our stores and other “bricks ‘n’ mortar” locations around the world.
At K&C’s last “meet ‘n’ greet” in both San Antonio and Hong Kong about 10% of the total attendees (over 120) were young collectors under 15 years-of-age.
3. Cost of Products
Yes, I wish we could sell our items less expensively BUT quality never comes cheap!
And increased competition with all manufacturers trying to outdo the other in both variety and detail has definitely increased manufacturing costs. Add to that increased labour and raw materials and anyone can see why things cost what they cost!
Which brings me neatly to…
4. Move to Cheaper Production Areas….
Actually, as far as K&C is concerned we already have… We’ve moved most of our production further into China away from the border areas…
As for moving to other countries… On the surface they may appear cheaper however…
1. Transport and shipping costs are much higher.
2. Labour is not as skilled or trained to the same degree.
3. Visiting Factories… Quality Inspection
I and my team can reach all of our China factories by train, bus or boat and usually within 24 hours.
Visiting India… Bangladesh… Sri Lanka… even the Philippines is a whole different ballgame!
I know collectors who think they’ve come up with a great suggestion for moving production to other places… It’s something K&C has explored and investigated but, in our honest opinion (based on real facts and real conditions) it is not feasible now or in the foreseeable future.
5. Collectors Cutting Back
Of course in difficult times any sensible person makes economies that’s why some collectors have to reduce their spending (based on their own income and rising prices).
That’s also why K&C in particular seeks out NEW MARKETS WITH NEW PRODUCTS… For instance a series like “LIFE OF JESUS”… “WW2 Aircraft”… even diversifying into subjects like “Australian Light Horse” for specific markets and so on…
We are constantly seeking out new areas of collecting and collectors. That’s why we also spend at least 3 months of the year personally visiting and promoting K&C in the States… Britain… France… Italy… Korea… Australia. Are there any other toy soldier/military miniature companies who do as much? I don’t think so…
As a company we don’t believe in just “preaching to the choir”… You have to get out onto the battlefield and take your fight to the collectors and, most importantly, the would-be collectors.
So, am I dispirited by the future? No way, as I’ve said many times before… I don’t see difficult times… I only see challenging opportunities!
Best wishes and happy collecting!
Andy C.
Well my friend “Paulzhere” has posted many excellent questions and points concerning the hobby and its future.
Whilst I fully appreciate his concerns about where we are all going as well as the woeful lack of “history education” in the West I am not nearly as worried as he appears to be. And here’s why…
1. “New People Coming Into the Hobby”
Every day we see fresh, new collectors buying… I see this in our two K&C store (Hong Kong and San Antonio). We get sales reports that tell us who is an existing buyer and who is brand-new.
Our own internet sales also attract new first-time buyers as well as our “regulars”.
And the most important salient fact: Our little hobby is known to a mere fraction of the kind of people who love the military history and all things related to it.
Every day interested people “stumble” across an internet site… see one of our adverts in a history magazine… visit a friend and see their collection… or walk into a toy soldier store.
That will not cease…
2. Young Collectors
There are not many but they are there… I know of several “Father & Son” collectors… Also collectors as young as 8 or 9 years visit and buy at our stores and other “bricks ‘n’ mortar” locations around the world.
At K&C’s last “meet ‘n’ greet” in both San Antonio and Hong Kong about 10% of the total attendees (over 120) were young collectors under 15 years-of-age.
3. Cost of Products
Yes, I wish we could sell our items less expensively BUT quality never comes cheap!
And increased competition with all manufacturers trying to outdo the other in both variety and detail has definitely increased manufacturing costs. Add to that increased labour and raw materials and anyone can see why things cost what they cost!
Which brings me neatly to…
4. Move to Cheaper Production Areas….
Actually, as far as K&C is concerned we already have… We’ve moved most of our production further into China away from the border areas…
As for moving to other countries… On the surface they may appear cheaper however…
1. Transport and shipping costs are much higher.
2. Labour is not as skilled or trained to the same degree.
3. Visiting Factories… Quality Inspection
I and my team can reach all of our China factories by train, bus or boat and usually within 24 hours.
Visiting India… Bangladesh… Sri Lanka… even the Philippines is a whole different ballgame!
I know collectors who think they’ve come up with a great suggestion for moving production to other places… It’s something K&C has explored and investigated but, in our honest opinion (based on real facts and real conditions) it is not feasible now or in the foreseeable future.
5. Collectors Cutting Back
Of course in difficult times any sensible person makes economies that’s why some collectors have to reduce their spending (based on their own income and rising prices).
That’s also why K&C in particular seeks out NEW MARKETS WITH NEW PRODUCTS… For instance a series like “LIFE OF JESUS”… “WW2 Aircraft”… even diversifying into subjects like “Australian Light Horse” for specific markets and so on…
We are constantly seeking out new areas of collecting and collectors. That’s why we also spend at least 3 months of the year personally visiting and promoting K&C in the States… Britain… France… Italy… Korea… Australia. Are there any other toy soldier/military miniature companies who do as much? I don’t think so…
As a company we don’t believe in just “preaching to the choir”… You have to get out onto the battlefield and take your fight to the collectors and, most importantly, the would-be collectors.
So, am I dispirited by the future? No way, as I’ve said many times before… I don’t see difficult times… I only see challenging opportunities!
Best wishes and happy collecting!
Andy C.
I thank, honestly, Andy for his appraisal of the growth prospects worldwide of our hobby. I hope you werent upset by my concerns or took them to imply your prices or that of other manufacturers were unreasonable or unwarranted. As I said, you cant have high quality and low prices..thats a slogan for the auto industry..not reality. You are the innovator..you can inform about the state of collecting worldwide. And, you have this insight not thru blogs but through your sales..your marketing...and your personal meetings in so many countries. ...At last years Chicago dinner, I sat at a table with a dealer from Australia. He gave my wife and me quite a benefical glimpse of collecting and of patriotism in his country. I wish this appreciation was to that level in my country. Again, my comments werent meant to criticize. "All politics are local" applies to my situation. Every single person I talked to (or I annoyed) was very, very polite and knowledgable. That night, I was the student. I started collecting because of all my uncles and father fought in world war II. I saw black and white photos from the war. I became interested..and started collecting..and cant stop. I am 63 years old and when the time comes, I would like to see my collection taken by someone who appreciates the historical value, not just what they could sell it for. After teaching, I worked in a warehouse for 23 years. I could tell that night by their manners, the majority of the people attending were not packers in the shipping department. My point isnt to differentiate people by class. I, personally, benefit from my collection..in spite of that my family doesnt really care. My collecting is a way for me to appreciate more the sacrifices of my relatives. King &Country's products are top notch..thats why the vast majority of my vehicles are theirs. I just wish there was a way in THIS country..even MY neighborhood, for younger people to start appreciating sacrifice, instead of expecting to be given things they want. Maybe the key, here, isnt a price versus quality issue. It is an educational issue. Again, my thanks to Andy for his comments....paul
Spanish soldier
Sergeant First Class
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- Feb 15, 2009
- Messages
- 1,026
For Andy, how the business in Spain?, I know only two points of sale in Spain, Jordi Rubio (Barcelona) and El infante (Madrid)
Capitolron
Lieutenant Colonel
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
- Messages
- 7,717
The point about the cost of collecting Toy Soldiers always seem to come up more and more here on the forum. I appreciate Paulzhere viewpoint - but, there is a reality that we need to understand about our hobby.
Premium Toy Soldier Collecting - METAL TOY SOLDIER COLLECTING - is the very high end of the entire toy soldier world. When we were kids most of us had plastic toy soldiers - marx sets - and loved our days playing away in the back yard with them. Part of the attraction of collecting K&C products is it gives us that chance to return to our fond memories of the past with our Toy Soldiers - at least for me.
However, you have to recognize this is a very expensive hobby - no matter how you cut it. Even when we were spending $22.00 a figure ten years ago - it was expensive. We are collecting a very high end product with K&C (and others) - detail that is simply outstanding and quality second to none. And for that product there is a cost.
I don't care how you want to wish it away - this is an expensive hobby. It really is not for everyone. You must a have a certain amount of disposable income to be able to collect these figures and enjoy this hobby. Thats just the plain economics of this hobby - pure & simple.
We are like antique car collectors - in our own little Toy Soldier way. There cars that cost less to drive and own - there medium range cars and high end cars and then there are the rare - special - expensive cars. Now not everyone here has a car collection - I don't. And you know what not everyone has a Premium Toy Soldier Collection either.
This hobby is already elitist - is what I am saying. When I tell people that I spend $32.00 for a single figure - they are shocked beyond belief ! That is dinner for two in some parts of the good ole USA. But, that is because this hobby (on the premium Metal Level) is not for everyone.
I am trying to talk down to anyone - but simply state a fact that people don't want to admit or get. YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY TO DO THIS HOBBY !
The Toy Soldier World is fun and its great to collect these King & Country figures and vehicles. But, lets face it guys the cost of production will never go down - as all things in our life with other products.
I think Paulzhere - is honest man who likes his hobby - I appreciate that. I wish the harsh economic facts of our hobby weren't there either - but, they are. This is always going to be an elite hobby - no matter how you cut it. Remember - we are spend big $$$ bucks for these figures - some of us more than others - but big bucks just the same.
So understand that you have chosen a expensive hobby - understand the reality that there are more people with more money than you (I have) - understand that you simply can't do everything you want or collect everything you want - unless you are Donald Trump.
Pick and choose and enjoy within your means - don't worry about what others have or do with their collection and you will find this hobby pleasing and fun.
Well - those are my thoughts for a Saturday morning
Premium Toy Soldier Collecting - METAL TOY SOLDIER COLLECTING - is the very high end of the entire toy soldier world. When we were kids most of us had plastic toy soldiers - marx sets - and loved our days playing away in the back yard with them. Part of the attraction of collecting K&C products is it gives us that chance to return to our fond memories of the past with our Toy Soldiers - at least for me.
However, you have to recognize this is a very expensive hobby - no matter how you cut it. Even when we were spending $22.00 a figure ten years ago - it was expensive. We are collecting a very high end product with K&C (and others) - detail that is simply outstanding and quality second to none. And for that product there is a cost.
I don't care how you want to wish it away - this is an expensive hobby. It really is not for everyone. You must a have a certain amount of disposable income to be able to collect these figures and enjoy this hobby. Thats just the plain economics of this hobby - pure & simple.
We are like antique car collectors - in our own little Toy Soldier way. There cars that cost less to drive and own - there medium range cars and high end cars and then there are the rare - special - expensive cars. Now not everyone here has a car collection - I don't. And you know what not everyone has a Premium Toy Soldier Collection either.
This hobby is already elitist - is what I am saying. When I tell people that I spend $32.00 for a single figure - they are shocked beyond belief ! That is dinner for two in some parts of the good ole USA. But, that is because this hobby (on the premium Metal Level) is not for everyone.
I am trying to talk down to anyone - but simply state a fact that people don't want to admit or get. YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY TO DO THIS HOBBY !
The Toy Soldier World is fun and its great to collect these King & Country figures and vehicles. But, lets face it guys the cost of production will never go down - as all things in our life with other products.
I think Paulzhere - is honest man who likes his hobby - I appreciate that. I wish the harsh economic facts of our hobby weren't there either - but, they are. This is always going to be an elite hobby - no matter how you cut it. Remember - we are spend big $$$ bucks for these figures - some of us more than others - but big bucks just the same.
So understand that you have chosen a expensive hobby - understand the reality that there are more people with more money than you (I have) - understand that you simply can't do everything you want or collect everything you want - unless you are Donald Trump.
Pick and choose and enjoy within your means - don't worry about what others have or do with their collection and you will find this hobby pleasing and fun.
Well - those are my thoughts for a Saturday morning
jazzeum
Four Star General
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2005
- Messages
- 38,814
Ron's post makes some very good points. I've likened the situation before to car ownership. Some have Camrys and some drive Porsches. I don't begrudge those who can afford Porsches. They just have the disposable income to do so and we shouldn't be upset that they can. We all spend on luxury items what we can, some more, some less so.
I totally agree about: high quality demands premium prices. And, at 22 dollars, even then, a metal soldier was expensive. I cant go into a Lexus dealership and admire the technology but demand that I pay chevy nova prices. Ten years ago, I and many others who collect were able to build,even, amass a collection at those relatively high prices. The number of collectors who can buy many 32 dollar figures at a time, I think, is dwindling. If it isnt dwindling, then, the producers will flourish and will still be able to innovate and expand their selections. I really do not know the manufacturing cost end. I guess I realize that I cant have it both ways...I just worry that as the price continues to edge up, my wants are being balanced by my real needs. If this is the case with others here...well..our hobby will be forced by economic reasons to either evolve into another direction or it will just become a hobby for far fewer people....When I taught school eons ago, my pay was barely family sustainable. During the unpaid summer, an encyclopedia salesman caught me cutting the grass and tried to enlist me. I balked. I wanted to not be on commission. He said: "I go into so many very poor neighborhoods and on the side of their run down homes, sits a very expensive boat and trailer. People will always buy what they want..even if they cant afford it." I just didnt want my hobby forcing me into that level of sacrifice. Before, it didnt. Today, it does.
Cyber Field Marshall
Sergeant Major
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2009
- Messages
- 1,608
This hobby is already elitist - is what I am saying. When I tell people that I spend $32.00 for a single figure - they are shocked beyond belief !
Well stated Capitolron. I have the same reaction with people. They usually think that the pieces are cool but when I tell them how much they are worth they freak!
Most hobbies out there are expensive though, model trains, painting, travel, fishing, car collecting, music collections, sports memorabilia, coins etc. We live in a great big world with lots of wealthy people who can afford these luxuries and that's the reality and many will get left out or have very limited collections. That's it, I don't think it will affect K&C, afterall its like any high end product, low sales volume but high prices, it is what it is.
Capitolron
Lieutenant Colonel
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
- Messages
- 7,717
Guys - I got news for you - if Andy / K&C wasn't making money - they would be expanding their product lines and starting new ranges.
I am sorry that the economy is pressuring the collectors in our hobby - but, this to shall pass and hopefully we will see a upturn in economy worldwide soon. However, there will always be people who can afford and those who cannot. Facts of Life.
Like any business - all production costs go up in time - we have been fortunate that the increases have been small over the last 10 years - I believe that has lots to do with Andy / K&C trying to keep cost down for the average collector.
Focus on what you can do - don't worry about what others do. You can collect on any budget and have fun.
I am sorry that the economy is pressuring the collectors in our hobby - but, this to shall pass and hopefully we will see a upturn in economy worldwide soon. However, there will always be people who can afford and those who cannot. Facts of Life.
Like any business - all production costs go up in time - we have been fortunate that the increases have been small over the last 10 years - I believe that has lots to do with Andy / K&C trying to keep cost down for the average collector.
Focus on what you can do - don't worry about what others do. You can collect on any budget and have fun.
Terp152
Major
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2009
- Messages
- 6,507
It's interesting when the factors listed as driving up prices are always manufacturing and transportation. Don't the other companies experience the same? Comparable figs and AFVs are 33% less from other vendors. KC can and do price what they can, that's the free market at work. Buyers can make their own choices.
I wont keep posting on this subject..so dont get upset with me. Again, I realize the quality vs. price issue. There is a tipping point however for the majority of collectors. And, yes..there will always be a market for those with soooo much cash that they will be able to purchase anything at almost any price. There are those who are saying: well..thats only natural..and they are content that the hobby proceeds by leaving alot more former collectors by the wayside. I am not saying that reflects anyone who has made prior comments..but there are people who are glad their collection becomes more and more exclussive. I collect autograph cards. A card signed by a great player and he signs the same type card a hundred times..goes for a hundred dollars. The same player's autograph on another card style where there was only ONE made of it..goes for five hundred. Why five times more for the same guy's autograph?...Well...somebody says: price is no matter to me...and if I have the ONLY type of card with this guy's autograph, I have something no one else has..and that..makes me happy. Just as there is a balance between higher quality and higher prices...I think serious consideration should be made in moderating prices...so that more people who have been collecting ..can stay in the hobby....Again, this comment is coming from a former warehouse worker. I hope there is no one out there that thinks collecting King and Country or Figarti should reach the point where the Cabots can show there Afrika Corp to the Lodges and the Lodges can show that collection to God! I have three children..when they were young I use to bring home three ice cream bars. The two youngest kids would eat theirs right away. My oldest would put hers in the freezer for tomorrow. I asked: why?...She said: tomorrow when my brother and sister dont have one and cant buy one...why I will take mine out and eat it in front of them. ....Nuff Said.
Capitolron
Lieutenant Colonel
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
- Messages
- 7,717
Paulzhere - I hear you - I wish things cost less too. However, since 2001 - King & Country was charging $21.00 USD Retail for an individual figure - today King & Country is charging $32.00 USD Retail - that is $11.00 USD increase over 10 years or about $1.10 USD per year - not bad in my opinion.
Tanks, Vehicles do cost more - however, the facts of doing business and production do have a serious toll on any company. The problem also you are faced with is what is a Toy Soldier Set really worth ? We don't what it takes to design, produce, package, ship and market a Toy Soldier in todays business world?
I know there are some who feel that Andy / K&C should be run like a socialist government - but, in reality - it is a business - in a free market and even more so - it is a business which produces a luxury item.
None of us really need these figures. It is not a requirement for life - like food, water and shelter. This is a luxury item - pure and simple.
I think Andy / K&C has worked really hard to keep the average cost down for the individual collector. King & Country deserves a pat on the back for the efforts they do make towards all of us.
When I started out in Toy Soldier Collecting - I was just starting my career and making money. I never for once thought about collecting Toy Soldiers - until I had the income to afford such a hobby. I even remembering barking at Tim Tyler over the fact a WWII Tank or Airplane cost $99.00 - LOL
It is hard to collect expensive things - it is even harder to collect everything that is expensive. Some people feel retailers should run their businesses as a communist government extention by rationing sales items - so they can have all the time in world to buy it at the dealers expense
I agree it would be nice for prices to be lower - heck, I would love a .25 cent candy bar again too - but, thats not the world we live in (sorry communists).
We live in a free market society which is open for all to participate - even with ridiculous state / federal taxes.
Personally I believe in one thing : "Work Hard, Make Money, Buy More Toy Soldiers"
Just remember when you spend money on a Toy Soldier - a luxury item - you have joined the Cabots and Lodges.
Again, buy what you can - enjoy your collection - don't worry about everyone else. Thats what I do and think is the best policy.
Tanks, Vehicles do cost more - however, the facts of doing business and production do have a serious toll on any company. The problem also you are faced with is what is a Toy Soldier Set really worth ? We don't what it takes to design, produce, package, ship and market a Toy Soldier in todays business world?
I know there are some who feel that Andy / K&C should be run like a socialist government
- but, in reality - it is a business - in a free market and even more so - it is a business which produces a luxury item.None of us really need these figures. It is not a requirement for life - like food, water and shelter. This is a luxury item - pure and simple.
I think Andy / K&C has worked really hard to keep the average cost down for the individual collector. King & Country deserves a pat on the back for the efforts they do make towards all of us.
When I started out in Toy Soldier Collecting - I was just starting my career and making money. I never for once thought about collecting Toy Soldiers - until I had the income to afford such a hobby. I even remembering barking at Tim Tyler over the fact a WWII Tank or Airplane cost $99.00 - LOL
It is hard to collect expensive things - it is even harder to collect everything that is expensive. Some people feel retailers should run their businesses as a communist government extention by rationing sales items - so they can have all the time in world to buy it at the dealers expense
I agree it would be nice for prices to be lower - heck, I would love a .25 cent candy bar again too - but, thats not the world we live in (sorry communists).
We live in a free market society which is open for all to participate - even with ridiculous state / federal taxes.
Personally I believe in one thing : "Work Hard, Make Money, Buy More Toy Soldiers"
Just remember when you spend money on a Toy Soldier - a luxury item - you have joined the Cabots and Lodges.
Again, buy what you can - enjoy your collection - don't worry about everyone else. Thats what I do and think is the best policy.
No doubt that to stay in this hobby is becomming quite expensive...Those are the facts as Ron explained....What is the breaking point for the majority of collectors?? Time will tell.....That is why I think the future of this hobby will reman a niche hobby..Not for everybody.....Also true for O gauge Train collecting....Also a very expensive hobby.... both TS and Trains seem to also appeal to the +45 year olds not as many younger folks joining in I think....Don't know how these pressures will affect the hobbys in the future???