Little round Top question (2 Viewers)

[lancer]

Sammy, I would love to see some up close pics of the Sunken Lane at Antietam, but please don't go out of your way for them.



Al, so 20th Maine were in the wooded area whilst other units were in the more barren rocky area, so fighting on both slopes?

Rob

Rob, the 20th Maine and the 83rd Pa. were in the woods while the regiments to the right (facing the Confederates), the 44th NY, 16th Mich., 140thNY, Hazlett's guns, etc., were all on the unforested, forward face of LRT. This does not man that parts of the 83rd Pa. weren't in the open at times, depending on the shifting of positions. LRT, as I mentioned, was about half open, half woods, split almost on a 12 to 6 clock face. The Union line ran in the open along the 11 to 7 side then curved into the woods 6 to 5. I know this is a crude discription but lacking a map illustration, it is kinda accurate. Does this make sense?^&confuse -- Al

 

[Rob]

Rob, the 20th Maine and the 83rd Pa. were in the woods while the regiments to the right (facing the Confederates), the 44th NY, 16th Mich., 140thNY, Hazlett's guns, etc., were all on the unforested, forward face of LRT. This does not man that parts of the 83rd Pa. weren't in the open at times, depending on the shifting of positions. LRT, as I mentioned, was about half open, half woods, split almost on a 12 to 6 clock face. The Union line ran in the open along the 11 to 7 side then curved into the woods 6 to 5. I know this is a crude discription but lacking a map illustration, it is kinda accurate. Does this make sense?^&confuse -- Al

Yes Al it does, and thanks for explaining it to me, so a dio featuring LRT could in fact be either wooded as depicted in the film or indeed more barren as in some of the LRT images on the web. This gives me a choice at least:wink2:

Thanks again

Rob

 

[Warrior]

Rob,
Interesting question, quite a few forum members have done an excellent job of explaining the scenerio to you.

You had also asked about artillery; as Al pointed out, there was a battery on top of Little Round Top commanded by Hazlett, who was killed, the guns were brought into action on third day as well, they raked/flanked the Confederate attack on the Union center.

Also, a detachment of sharpshooters were deployed to the left of Chamberlains position and took cover behind a stone wall; they provided flanking fire against the repeated attacks on the Union position as well.

You will be surprized to see how fall down the slope of LRT Chamberlain and his men were positioned, they were in effect the extreme left of the entire Union position and had they not held out like they did, the entire Union line may have caved in, they performed superbly on the second day at Gettysburg.................

 

[Rob]

Rob,
Interesting question, quite a few forum members have done an excellent job of explaining the scenerio to you.

You had also asked about artillery; as Al pointed out, there was a battery on top of Little Round Top commanded by Hazlett, who was killed, the guns were brought into action on third day as well, they raked/flanked the Confederate attack on the Union center.

Also, a detachment of sharpshooters were deployed to the left of Chamberlains position and took cover behind a stone wall; they provided flanking fire against the repeated attacks on the Union position as well.

You will be surprized to see how fall down the slope of LRT Chamberlain and his men were positioned, they were in effect the extreme left of the entire Union position and had they not held out like they did, the entire Union line may have caved in, they performed superbly on the second day at Gettysburg.................

Hey George,

I fully agree, even for a novice such as I who has just started studying the battle , its easy to see how important their action was. No over statement to say the race to the top of LRT was a pivotal moment in the Battle, the fighting up there must have been pretty desperate and brutal. Thanks for the info on the artilley up there as well, I didn't know they fired on the attack on the union center from there.

When looking at many different images from LRT there are many of the small wall that remains there to this day, however some say this was built after the action, does this mean there were no walls for the men to shelter behind?.

Cheers

Rob

 

[Scott]

Thanks Scott, is this you in the pic?

Rob

That's me. My daughter's GGGGG grandfather on her mother's side lost his arm over with the Irish Brigade on the second day. We had to see Little Round Top.

 

[Warrior]

Hey George,

I fully agree, even for a novice such as I who has just started studying the battle , its easy to see how important their action was. No over statement to say the race to the top of LRT was a pivotal moment in the Battle, the fighting up there must have been pretty desperate and brutal. Thanks for the info on the artilley up there as well, I didn't know they fired on the attack on the union center from there.

When looking at many different images from LRT there are many of the small wall that remains there to this day, however some say this was built after the action, does this mean there were no walls for the men to shelter behind?.

Cheers

Rob

Rob,
There are small piles of rocks in several spots along LRT that were built by Union defenders, pretty interesting to still see them standing to this day.............

 

[Terp152]

As I recall, been a few years ago, you can still see some rocks piled by 20th Maine in hasty defence. Maybe Al can confirm this as he's been there. Chris

 

[Combat]

There are some huge boulders there that would have been used for cover and, of course, in Devil's Den. They have a kind of Stonehenge quality. There are books that compare the photos taken shortly after the battle with contemporary photos. It's a bit eerie to see them side by side. Believe it or not, people occassionally steal some of these rocks or at least try.

 

[Jackaroo]

Thanks Doug, this is all very interesting for my planning. Yes I was meant to visit last year, however financial constraints prevented it, but it looks like I may be able to go next year now. Gettysburg and Antietam are top of my list when I get there.

Thanks again

Rob

Rob,

Mate you have to get over there mate, you will really enjoy the experience of both Gettysburg and Antietam. On my first posting to the States, I spent a day walking/driving the Gettysburg battlefield, sat in the Gettysburg theater that night and watched the newly released film “Gettysburg” and then spent more time (particularly at LRT) the next day.

Whilst in Gettysburg I bought one of Don Troiani signed LE prints “Don’t give an inch” depicting Col Strong Vincenton on LRT. Overall, a very memorable experience and I hope you can get across the pond soon. Cheers ... Alby

 

[BlakeWR85]

Doug, thats excellent thanks very much, thats just what I was hoping. In the film Longstreet does indeed ask Lee to let him attack from the rear but as you say refused. I wonder why the film makers went for the scene full of trees, perhaps it added more tension and atmosphere than an attack up a steep rocky slope?.

Thanks again

Rob

I think because the book Killer Angels followed Chamberlain and the 20th Maine, the movie would also follow them, even on Little Round Top. So most of the action on the 2nd day isn't covered in the film, and only the 20th Maine section of LRT is in the film, where trees actually were, and still are. The treeless rocky slope you're thinking of involved other Union regiments closer to the front of the hill. I think because it would've been very difficult to recreate or find another location of the treeless face of LRT, where a lot of Rebs attacked, they didn't film the whole fight on LRT. There are a ton of paintings out there that will give an idea of what the fighting looked like.

The only part of the film actually filmed on LRT was the next morning, with Chamberlain "resting his leg," and his brother Tom bringing him coffee. Then another scene which a courier informs Chamberlain that he is relieved from LRT, and he's been relocated to a "safer spot" on the battlefield. That was filmed on the treeless rocky slope, which ironically, Chamberlain didn't fight on that part of LRT on day 2, and wasn't left in place there. He actually was stationed on Big Round Top, so the courier should've came to him on BRT, not LRT, and especially not the wrong part of LRT! So again ironic, the courier scene should've been a wooded area, since Chamberlain was on BRT, not LRT, and it was completely wooded. Also a fun fact: that courier actually played Gen. Pickett in God's and Generals

I know a guy who lives in Gettysburg, he was Reb charging up LRT in the film, I asked him about the location of the filming of LRT, he said it was outside of town not far.

 

[lancer]

I think because the book Killer Angels followed Chamberlain and the 20th Maine, the movie would also follow them, even on Little Round Top. So most of the action on the 2nd day isn't covered in the film, and only the 20th Maine section of LRT is in the film, where trees actually were, and still are. The treeless rocky slope you're thinking of involved other Union regiments closer to the front of the hill. I think because it would've been very difficult to recreate or find another location of the treeless face of LRT, where a lot of Rebs attacked, they didn't film the whole fight on LRT. There are a ton of paintings out there that will give an idea of what the fighting looked like.

The only part of the film actually filmed on LRT was the next morning, with Chamberlain "resting his leg," and his brother Tom bringing him coffee. Then another scene which a courier informs Chamberlain that he is relieved from LRT, and he's been relocated to a "safer spot" on the battlefield. That was filmed on the treeless rocky slope, which ironically, Chamberlain didn't fight on that part of LRT on day 2, and wasn't left in place there. He actually was stationed on Big Round Top, so the courier should've came to him on BRT, not LRT, and especially not the wrong part of LRT! So again ironic, the courier scene should've been a wooded area, since Chamberlain was on BRT, not LRT, and it was completely wooded. Also a fun fact: that courier actually played Gen. Pickett in God's and Generals

I know a guy who lives in Gettysburg, he was Reb charging up LRT in the film, I asked him about the location of the filming of LRT, he said it was outside of town not far.

Fun fact; the courier is William Campbell, who was also "The Rocketeer". {sm3} -- Al

 

[BlakeWR85]

Fun fact; the courier is William Campbell, who was also "The Rocketeer". {sm3} -- Al

That's him {bravo}}

 

[lancer]

As I recall, been a few years ago, you can still see some rocks piled by 20th Maine in hasty defence. Maybe Al can confirm this as he's been there. Chris

Those sections still exsist, as George and others have said. Have to make sure to follow the 20th's line as it can be missed if all one does is drive to the top of LRT and stand on the rocks. :wink2: -- Al

 

[BlakeWR85]

When looking at many different images from LRT there are many of the small wall that remains there to this day, however some say this was built after the action, does this mean there were no walls for the men to shelter behind?.

Cheers

Rob

You were told right, they were built after the action. The 20th Maine arrived and formed about 10 minutes before the Rebs arrived, not much time to make a stone wall :tongue: It would've been more of a hasty defense, with logs and such perhaps, but not what you see today.

Also, Rob, if you're interested, I did a GPS location of the 20th Maine monument, the 20th ME left flank marker, the 20th RF marker, and the Co.B marker, so I can give you the exact GPS coordinates if you want to look on google earth to see exactly where the 20th Maine was on a satellite map! I'm sorta a detail nut ^&grin I did it so I could see how big the area was, then scaled it down 1/72, to see exactly how long the 20th Maine line looked with my plastic figures, I even counted out the exact number of plastic figures according to Regimental Strengths and losses at Gettysburg book by Busey and Martin.

 

[lancer]

You were told right, they were built after the action. The 20th Maine arrived and formed about 10 minutes before the Rebs arrived, not much time to make a stone wall :tongue: It would've been more of a hasty defense, with logs and such perhaps, but not what you see today.

Also, Rob, if you're interested, I did a GPS location of the 20th Maine monument, the 20th ME left flank marker, the 20th RF marker, and the Co.B marker, so I can give you the exact GPS coordinates if you want to look on google earth to see exactly where the 20th Maine was on a satellite map! I'm sorta a detail nut ^&grin I did it so I could see how big the area was, then scaled it down 1/72, to see exactly how long the 20th Maine line looked with my plastic figures, I even counted out the exact number of plastic figures according to Regimental Strengths and losses at Gettysburg book by Busey and Martin.

Now that's dedication and rivet counting to be proud of. "Regimental Strengths..." is a great book. Wish I still had mine. -- Al

 

[Combat]

The local PA Cable station (PCN) films the summer battlefield tours offered each year by various Park Rangers and experts. Those are unsurpassed if you are really interested in the nitty gritty. They sell them on their website. The focus is on very specific aspects of the battle. You can click on each year to see what they covered. I guarantee there are things you don't know no matter the level of expertise: https://www.pcnstore.com/index.php?cPath=29&osCsid=dkmhhl6brvb61497cubdritfm5

 

[marco55]

Hi Rob, I'll be going to Gettysburg this fall for my first time and looking forward to it, I want to see where my Great-Great grand fathers unit fought, plus the unit has a statue placed on the grounds for the 55th of Virginia, if there is anything you want pics of let me know, I plan on taking plenty!!!

He was captured later on at Cashtown and sent to Fort Delaware prison which if I can find documentation of being his relative I can actually stay overnite in the same area he was held, looking forward to this trip, hope to learn alot more of my relative...Sammy

Sammy I don't know if you want to stay at Fort Delaware at night.Believe me that is one creepy place.{eek3}{eek3}
Mark

 

[Rob]

Rob,
Interesting question, quite a few forum members have done an excellent job of explaining the scenerio to you.

You had also asked about artillery; as Al pointed out, there was a battery on top of Little Round Top commanded by Hazlett, who was killed, the guns were brought into action on third day as well, they raked/flanked the Confederate attack on the Union center.

Also, a detachment of sharpshooters were deployed to the left of Chamberlains position and took cover behind a stone wall; they provided flanking fire against the repeated attacks on the Union position as well.

You will be surprized to see how fall down the slope of LRT Chamberlain and his men were positioned, they were in effect the extreme left of the entire Union position and had they not held out like they did, the entire Union line may have caved in, they performed superbly on the second day at Gettysburg.................

That's me. My daughter's GGGGG grandfather on her mother's side lost his arm over with the Irish Brigade on the second day. We had to see Little Round Top.

Rob,
There are small piles of rocks in several spots along LRT that were built by Union defenders, pretty interesting to still see them standing to this day.............

There are some huge boulders there that would have been used for cover and, of course, in Devil's Den. They have a kind of Stonehenge quality. There are books that compare the photos taken shortly after the battle with contemporary photos. It's a bit eerie to see them side by side. Believe it or not, people occassionally steal some of these rocks or at least try.

Rob,

Mate you have to get over there mate, you will really enjoy the experience of both Gettysburg and Antietam. On my first posting to the States, I spent a day walking/driving the Gettysburg battlefield, sat in the Gettysburg theater that night and watched the newly released film “Gettysburg” and then spent more time (particularly at LRT) the next day.

Whilst in Gettysburg I bought one of Don Troiani signed LE prints “Don’t give an inch” depicting Col Strong Vincenton on LRT. Overall, a very memorable experience and I hope you can get across the pond soon. Cheers ... Alby

I think because the book Killer Angels followed Chamberlain and the 20th Maine, the movie would also follow them, even on Little Round Top. So most of the action on the 2nd day isn't covered in the film, and only the 20th Maine section of LRT is in the film, where trees actually were, and still are. The treeless rocky slope you're thinking of involved other Union regiments closer to the front of the hill. I think because it would've been very difficult to recreate or find another location of the treeless face of LRT, where a lot of Rebs attacked, they didn't film the whole fight on LRT. There are a ton of paintings out there that will give an idea of what the fighting looked like.

The only part of the film actually filmed on LRT was the next morning, with Chamberlain "resting his leg," and his brother Tom bringing him coffee. Then another scene which a courier informs Chamberlain that he is relieved from LRT, and he's been relocated to a "safer spot" on the battlefield. That was filmed on the treeless rocky slope, which ironically, Chamberlain didn't fight on that part of LRT on day 2, and wasn't left in place there. He actually was stationed on Big Round Top, so the courier should've came to him on BRT, not LRT, and especially not the wrong part of LRT! So again ironic, the courier scene should've been a wooded area, since Chamberlain was on BRT, not LRT, and it was completely wooded. Also a fun fact: that courier actually played Gen. Pickett in God's and Generals

I know a guy who lives in Gettysburg, he was Reb charging up LRT in the film, I asked him about the location of the filming of LRT, he said it was outside of town not far.

Those sections still exsist, as George and others have said. Have to make sure to follow the 20th's line as it can be missed if all one does is drive to the top of LRT and stand on the rocks. :wink2: -- Al

You were told right, they were built after the action. The 20th Maine arrived and formed about 10 minutes before the Rebs arrived, not much time to make a stone wall :tongue: It would've been more of a hasty defense, with logs and such perhaps, but not what you see today.

Also, Rob, if you're interested, I did a GPS location of the 20th Maine monument, the 20th ME left flank marker, the 20th RF marker, and the Co.B marker, so I can give you the exact GPS coordinates if you want to look on google earth to see exactly where the 20th Maine was on a satellite map! I'm sorta a detail nut ^&grin I did it so I could see how big the area was, then scaled it down 1/72, to see exactly how long the 20th Maine line looked with my plastic figures, I even counted out the exact number of plastic figures according to Regimental Strengths and losses at Gettysburg book by Busey and Martin.

Guys,


Thanks to all of you who have helped and advised me in this. So what we've established so far is this;

I can either make a LRT Dio featuring the 20th Maine on the wooded slopes of LRT OR feature another unit in the dio with the more barren terrain of the other slope.The 20th Maine did not have time to build any sort of wall but there were hasty defences on other slopes. Cannon fire was not able to be brought upon the Rebel attack that day. but were used on the attack against the Union centre.

My next questions are these, was there hand to hand fighting in all sections of LRT?. And roughly how many 20th Maine Soldiers were in action up there?.

Thanks guys, I know these answers are probably day one stuff for you but for a novice with a growing interest and a wish to recreate a scene , they are very helpful.

Blake, I may well take you up on your kind offer re the GPS at some point, many thanks.

Rob

 

[Scott]

"Thanks guys, I know these answers are probably day one stuff for you but for a novice with a growing interest and a wish to recreate a scene , they are very helpful."

The information is "out there" but I find that asking and helping fellow enthusiasts with sources, clues and short cuts keeps one from having to reinvent the wheel. Of all the epic fights at Gettysburg, The Little Round Top action catches the imagination because it's position in the Union line.

 

[BlakeWR85]

Guys,


Thanks to all of you who have helped and advised me in this. So what we've established so far is this;

I can either make a LRT Dio featuring the 20th Maine on the wooded slopes of LRT OR feature another unit in the dio with the more barren terrain of the other slope.The 20th Maine did not have time to build any sort of wall but there were hasty defences on other slopes. Cannon fire was not able to be brought upon the Rebel attack that day. but were used on the attack against the Union centre.

My next questions are these, was there hand to hand fighting in all sections of LRT?. And roughly how many 20th Maine Soldiers were in action up there?.

Thanks guys, I know these answers are probably day one stuff for you but for a novice with a growing interest and a wish to recreate a scene , they are very helpful.

Blake, I may well take you up on your kind offer re the GPS at some point, many thanks.

Rob

Rob, we're all glad to help you out my friend, keep shooting your questions our way Scott was right, the info is out there, but you can get it a lot quicker by asking! I'm emailing you the link to my 'saved placemarks' on google earth later tonight, hope they help.

For the 20th Maine numbers: according to Regt. Strengths and Losses at Gettysburg by Busey and Martin........386 (28 officers/358 soldiers) engaged strengh, 125 total losses (29 killed, 91 wounded, 5 missing/captured)= 32.4% loss.

Let me know later, I can get you the confederate regiments, and even the other LRT regiments strengths.....