London show 3/12/22 (1 Viewer)

Nicholas V Hall

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147
Attended London show and was very disappointed. The venue is not good and the event was poorly attended. Only Thomas Gun as a manufacturer. Compared to the days of the Islington Design Centre when we had 2 floors. Must only be a fraction of the exhibitors we had then. No K@C , no Maison Militaire therefore next to no First Legion no JG Miniatures ect, ect. Compared with a few years back it’s like a car boot sale and if anyone came from abroad which they did they must have wondered why they bothered. I know it’s money but surely it can be better than this.
 
Attended London show and was very disappointed. The venue is not good and the event was poorly attended. Only Thomas Gun as a manufacturer. Compared to the days of the Islington Design Centre when we had 2 floors. Must only be a fraction of the exhibitors we had then. No K@C , no Maison Militaire therefore next to no First Legion no JG Miniatures ect, ect. Compared with a few years back it’s like a car boot sale and if anyone came from abroad which they did they must have wondered why they bothered. I know it’s money but surely it can be better than this.

Sorry your show experience was not a good one.

You stated it was poorly attended; do you mean from a dealer perspective or an attendee perspective?

As we all know, our hobby is graying, collectors are aging out, downsizing, getting out of the hobby and also, sadly passing away. So attendance at the shows suffers; also, COVID may play a part, there are people out there who are still sensitive to COVID and may not feel comfortable being in a large venue with a number of people.

And speaking of COVID, it has changed the way people shop, on line retailing exploded in 2020 and it has been going strong ever since, people have gotten used to buying on line vs going to retail stores or collectibles shows.

And yes, I get it "But there is something great about seeing the items in person/you never know what 'treasures' you'll find on someones table", but the shows are all suffering with a decline in attendance.

Also, dealers are retiring and the ones who are left are doing the math; do the travel and show related expenses justify the time and effort and more to the point, do the sales make it worthwhile?

If dealers were making money at the shows hand over fist, I doubt if they would stop attending shows. So it's a dual problem; attendance is down, dealers don't make as much money, so some of them stop coming, then those who attend feel like the show is not what it once was, so attendance suffers further.

Another point you mentioned about the venue; it has gone from the downtown London location to a new location; has that hurt attendance in your eyes? The surest way to kill a show is to move it.

15 to 20 years ago, shows and shops were the primary ways to view product and make purchases........fast forward to 2022, how many shops are left around the world? How many shows are still going strong?

Times change and the way people shop changes as well.

Not sure what can be done to make the shows a happening event again.
 
Thanks for sharing your knowledge; also for you website and your honest comments and biz transactions.
 
Being on the Thomas Gunn stand all day their business was good, we were happy. And the organisers said footfall was up compared to the last show so I disagree it was poorly attended. Yes a few normal sellers were missing but they will be back. We had lots of international customers and they almost all bought stuff.

Now for the March 2023 show its going to be different. The show is expanding to include other things - plastics and other miniatures so we will have 1 additional hall full and hopefully the new people this attracts will also help sales. Lets see....

Cheers,

Stefan
 
I've been going to the London show for quite a few years now and see quite a few changes but I was happy to be back.
we shouldn't forget that we are still in corona time.
I think it will be a good show again and that the dealers will really be present again, looking forward to the December show 2023
Richard:salute::
 
Yes Nicholas, I totally concur.

I’ve attended many London soldier shows in the Royal London hotel & Islington design centre. They were truly events worth travelling to.

I have also travelled to this school in Haverstock hill for the more recent shows and been appalled by the venue.

I have previously voiced my opinions on the current London location on this forum and have been ridiculed for being ‘negative’ by blinkered fan boys.

The Haverstock hill venue is nothing but a car boot jumble sale.

I will not return.

Previously, the event could be combined with a London trip for myself and the wife, an overnight stay, an extravagant meal and a theatre trip.

Why would I do that for a school jumble sale?

Any rumoured move to ‘Milton Keynes’ will be the death blow for this utter shambles.







Attended London show and was very disappointed. The venue is not good and the event was poorly attended. Only Thomas Gun as a manufacturer. Compared to the days of the Islington Design Centre when we had 2 floors. Must only be a fraction of the exhibitors we had then. No K@C , no Maison Militaire therefore next to no First Legion no JG Miniatures ect, ect. Compared with a few years back it’s like a car boot sale and if anyone came from abroad which they did they must have wondered why they bothered. I know it’s money but surely it can be better than this.
 
Previously, the event could be combined with a London trip for myself and the wife, an overnight stay, an extravagant meal and a theatre trip.

Why would I do that for a school jumble sale?

Any rumoured move to ‘Milton Keynes’ will be the death blow for this utter shambles.

Like you, when I'm able to be in London at the right time of the year for the Toy Soldier Show, my wife and I also have overnight stays, nice meals and go to the theatre.

If we had to go to Milton Keynes I'm sure we would also enjoy a nice drive in the countryside to get there and probably stay close by in a small village pub of B&B and make a weekend of it. I've just checked its only 100kms north of London, so easy to get to on the motorway and I do recall the intercity coaches stop there too !!!

The London Show is much closer that my next choice which is Chicago because London direct is now only a 16 hour flight, USA is over 24 hours!!!

Consider yourself lucky to be able to have a show to go to, I don't, because I'm living on the SW coast of Australia!!

John
I've attended the show 5 times in the past 22 years!!!
 
Like you, when I'm able to be in London at the right time of the year for the Toy Soldier Show, my wife and I also have overnight stays, nice meals and go to the theatre.

If we had to go to Milton Keynes I'm sure we would also enjoy a nice drive in the countryside to get there and probably stay close by in a small village pub of B&B and make a weekend of it. I've just checked its only 100kms north of London, so easy to get to on the motorway and I do recall the intercity coaches stop there too !!!

The London Show is much closer that my next choice which is Chicago because London direct is now only a 16 hour flight, USA is over 24 hours!!!

Consider yourself lucky to be able to have a show to go to, I don't, because I'm living on the SW coast of Australia!!

John
I've attended the show 5 times in the past 22 years!!!

Obee, - you’ve obviously never been to Milton Keynes!!

SW coast of Australia sounds like a nice place to live. Consider yourself lucky!!
 
Obee, - you’ve obviously never been to Milton Keynes!!

SW coast of Australia sounds like a nice place to live. Consider yourself lucky!!

You are correct, I have seen the sign on the M1 as I pass by on my way north ... and I have never taken that exit to find out what 'lurks' further down that road :) :)

Yes, I do consider myself lucky to live where I do, and plan on staying here for the duration :)

But, I also love going back to 'The Old Country' meeting friends and relatives and also going to any toy soldier show I can find, something I really enjoy, even if it is a humble jumble sale :)

Hopefully we can make to trip again soon seeing we haven't been able to travel anywhere outside our state for a few years!!!!

John
 
I too have been to the london show for many years and have seen it change but I thought it was more than a flea market
thought the royal national was the best venue but it's somewhere else now and we have to make do with it after 30 years i keep going to the show

Richard
 
Dear collectors

I agree that the last show was not what I was
expecting. However, if we don't support it
then soon there will be no show. Besides Tom
Gunn, other manufacturers there were Asset
Toy Soldiers, The British Toy Soldier Co,
Little Legion, Imperial Miniatures, RP World
Models, White Tower Miniatures. For King &
Country figures Saimex Toys from Italy was
there, plus a private vendor who stocks many
older sets. Sorry if I forgot anyone else.
 
Agree definitely we do not want no show and you have to accept Warriors comments about reality they are indisputable. However it is billed as the biggest show in Europe and there are some great products available. I remember the K@C dioramas at Islington, one for every theatre of war. They were quite inspirational. At Haverstock there is nothing like that. Of all manufacturers only TG had direct representation so as for the other manufacturers do they feel it is simply not worth while? What about all the great new products from War Park, Team Miniatures and Eagle Design. Not a single piece there. Methinks wonders if K@C would attend if the show was moved to Edinburgh.
 
Agree definitely we do not want no show and you have to accept Warriors comments about reality they are indisputable. However it is billed as the biggest show in Europe and there are some great products available. I remember the K@C dioramas at Islington, one for every theatre of war. They were quite inspirational. At Haverstock there is nothing like that. Of all manufacturers only TG had direct representation so as for the other manufacturers do they feel it is simply not worth while? What about all the great new products from War Park, Team Miniatures and Eagle Design. Not a single piece there. Methinks wonders if K@C would attend if the show was moved to Edinburgh.

I expect travel and isolation on return to China is a major factor in deterring manufacturers like King & Country travelling in this Covid / Post Covid World.
Others such as Eagle design etc aren't really large enough companies to afford the expense of such a trip even if they were so inclined with the same travel issues and would normally rely on dealers who may have reasons for missing a show as do collectors.
 
Agree definitely we do not want no show and you have to accept Warriors comments about reality they are indisputable. However it is billed as the biggest show in Europe and there are some great products available. I remember the K@C dioramas at Islington, one for every theatre of war. They were quite inspirational. At Haverstock there is nothing like that. Of all manufacturers only TG had direct representation so as for the other manufacturers do they feel it is simply not worth while? What about all the great new products from War Park, Team Miniatures and Eagle Design. Not a single piece there. Methinks wonders if K@C would attend if the show was moved to Edinburgh.

I used to view the images from the London Show when it was at its former venue, the depth and scope of product offerings was incredible, specifically the smaller manufacturers in the Uk doing wonderful items and the sellers with the mint in box vintage plastics from Timpo and W. Britain, those plastics are what I grew up with along with Airfix.

Shows get moved due to venues pricing the promoter out, which is a shame, but the surest way to kill a show is to move it. We had a local show in here in MA, it was held for years in a town called Dedham at a nice hotel, vendors from MA, CT, NY, NJ and also from time to time VA, MD, OH and MI, there were two rooms full of dealers offering top shelf products..............then the show moved about half an hour away, attendance by dealers and attendees started to bleed out, then it got moved another half an hour further away and it continued to bleed out, it eventually faded away. It was brought back this year as a "toy soldier/general toy/model kit/military books show"............I did not attend as I had my fill of the show.

When I started in the business in the late 1990's, show were "events", I attended north of 20 shows a year, they were all a license to print money.......started to notice them going the wrong way in about 2016/2017...........then COVID hit and they were gone for a year and a half, they are coming back now, I've only been to two the past three years as previously stated.

I've found other platforms from which to sell merchandise, I've replaced the show income while also cutting away all the expenses to do them; table fees, gas, tolls, van rental, hotel bill, meals, a win/win.

Collectors are not attending as in the past, nor are the dealers, as collectors age and sadly pass away, dealers also age, some retire and sadly, some pass away, no one is taking their place, so it's getting harder and harder to fill a venue with quality vendors selling quality merchandise, more and more collectors or "flippers" are coming to shows to sell merchandise, not full time toy soldier vendors.

In a perfect world, shows would have full time vendors wall to wall and also manufacturers showing new and future releases to get collectors excited; the costs to attend shows continue to go out of control, it becomes a cost vs benefit example, why are vendors from years past London shows no longer attending? If the sales were there, I am sure they would, each vendor has to decide for himself if attending shows is worthwhile economically or not. We have to make tough decisions, it's not easy to pull out of a show you've been attending for years, it's sad to be honest, but it's also a business decision, not a personal one.

The London show, much like our Chicago Show, is iconic, would hate to see either of them fade away, time will tell, I had hoped one day to attend the London Show just to see all the varied product offerings.

One of the things that appealed to me was the picture posted after the show of the TFT members who attended all gathered in a pub relaxing after the show with a good meal and some adult beverages, I had hoped to be in one of those pictures.....................we'll see what the future holds.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, just stating reality.
 
Agree definitely we do not want no show and you have to accept Warriors comments about reality they are indisputable. However it is billed as the biggest show in Europe and there are some great products available. I remember the K@C dioramas at Islington, one for every theatre of war. They were quite inspirational. At Haverstock there is nothing like that. Of all manufacturers only TG had direct representation so as for the other manufacturers do they feel it is simply not worth while? What about all the great new products from War Park, Team Miniatures and Eagle Design. Not a single piece there. Methinks wonders if K@C would attend if the show was moved to Edinburgh.

I had to check a map to be sure of the location of some of the places mentioned...
Plus, Up to mighty London cameAn Irish man one day
All the streets were paved with gold
So everyone was gay!
Singing songs of Piccadilly
Strand, and Leicester Square
'Til Paddy got excited and

He shouted to them there:
It's a long way to Tipperary
It's a long way to go.
It's a long way to Tipperary
To the sweetest girl I know!
Goodbye Piccadilly
Farewell Leicester Square!
It's a long long way to Tipperary
But my heart's right there.

I guess I'm saying London is still a place I want to explore, so it makes a good TS Show venue.
Best Wishes & Happy Holidays!
Paddy
 
I used to view the images from the London Show when it was at its former venue, the depth and scope of product offerings was incredible, specifically the smaller manufacturers in the Uk doing wonderful items and the sellers with the mint in box vintage plastics from Timpo and W. Britain, those plastics are what I grew up with along with Airfix.

Shows get moved due to venues pricing the promoter out, which is a shame, but the surest way to kill a show is to move it. We had a local show in here in MA, it was held for years in a town called Dedham at a nice hotel, vendors from MA, CT, NY, NJ and also from time to time VA, MD, OH and MI, there were two rooms full of dealers offering top shelf products..............then the show moved about half an hour away, attendance by dealers and attendees started to bleed out, then it got moved another half an hour further away and it continued to bleed out, it eventually faded away. It was brought back this year as a "toy soldier/general toy/model kit/military books show"............I did not attend as I had my fill of the show.

When I started in the business in the late 1990's, show were "events", I attended north of 20 shows a year, they were all a license to print money.......started to notice them going the wrong way in about 2016/2017...........then COVID hit and they were gone for a year and a half, they are coming back now, I've only been to two the past three years as previously stated.

I've found other platforms from which to sell merchandise, I've replaced the show income while also cutting away all the expenses to do them; table fees, gas, tolls, van rental, hotel bill, meals, a win/win.

Collectors are not attending as in the past, nor are the dealers, as collectors age and sadly pass away, dealers also age, some retire and sadly, some pass away, no one is taking their place, so it's getting harder and harder to fill a venue with quality vendors selling quality merchandise, more and more collectors or "flippers" are coming to shows to sell merchandise, not full time toy soldier vendors.

In a perfect world, shows would have full time vendors wall to wall and also manufacturers showing new and future releases to get collectors excited; the costs to attend shows continue to go out of control, it becomes a cost vs benefit example, why are vendors from years past London shows no longer attending? If the sales were there, I am sure they would, each vendor has to decide for himself if attending shows is worthwhile economically or not. We have to make tough decisions, it's not easy to pull out of a show you've been attending for years, it's sad to be honest, but it's also a business decision, not a personal one.

The London show, much like our Chicago Show, is iconic, would hate to see either of them fade away, time will tell, I had hoped one day to attend the London Show just to see all the varied product offerings.

One of the things that appealed to me was the picture posted after the show of the TFT members who attended all gathered in a pub relaxing after the show with a good meal and some adult beverages, I had hoped to be in one of those pictures.....................we'll see what the future holds.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, just stating reality.

Thank you for an honest, professional's reply.
 
You are correct, I have seen the sign on the M1 as I pass by on my way north ... and I have never taken that exit to find out what 'lurks' further down that road :) :)

Yes, I do consider myself lucky to live where I do, and plan on staying here for the duration :)

Google Bletchley Park. You'll find it fascinating to visit.
 
Google Bletchley Park. You'll find it fascinating to visit.

Anyone who engages with this forum would presumably have a modicum of historical interest.

So why would they feel the need to ‘google’ Bletchley Park?

it’s significance is bleeding obvious to anyone with a scant knowledge of WW2.
 
Anyone who engages with this forum would presumably have a modicum of historical interest.

So why would they feel the need to ‘google’ Bletchley Park?

it’s significance is bleeding obvious to anyone with a scant knowledge of WW2.

Perhaps read the full conversation before commenting. Then you will see why it is 'bleeding obvious' why Charlie Brown wrote what he did. :wink2::wink2::wink2:

Obee (from Oz) was saying he had seen the signs for MK; but not what was lurking beyond.

CharlieBrown was simply suggesting to him that Bletchley Park is 'lurking beyond'; is in MK and well worth a visit (I agree it is fascinating place) - that is all. :):):)

Glad you are embracing the season of goodwill :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
I used to view the images from the London Show when it was at its former venue, the depth and scope of product offerings was incredible, specifically the smaller manufacturers in the Uk doing wonderful items and the sellers with the mint in box vintage plastics from Timpo and W. Britain, those plastics are what I grew up with along with Airfix.

Shows get moved due to venues pricing the promoter out, which is a shame, but the surest way to kill a show is to move it. We had a local show in here in MA, it was held for years in a town called Dedham at a nice hotel, vendors from MA, CT, NY, NJ and also from time to time VA, MD, OH and MI, there were two rooms full of dealers offering top shelf products..............then the show moved about half an hour away, attendance by dealers and attendees started to bleed out, then it got moved another half an hour further away and it continued to bleed out, it eventually faded away. It was brought back this year as a "toy soldier/general toy/model kit/military books show"............I did not attend as I had my fill of the show.

When I started in the business in the late 1990's, show were "events", I attended north of 20 shows a year, they were all a license to print money.......started to notice them going the wrong way in about 2016/2017...........then COVID hit and they were gone for a year and a half, they are coming back now, I've only been to two the past three years as previously stated.

I've found other platforms from which to sell merchandise, I've replaced the show income while also cutting away all the expenses to do them; table fees, gas, tolls, van rental, hotel bill, meals, a win/win.

Collectors are not attending as in the past, nor are the dealers, as collectors age and sadly pass away, dealers also age, some retire and sadly, some pass away, no one is taking their place, so it's getting harder and harder to fill a venue with quality vendors selling quality merchandise, more and more collectors or "flippers" are coming to shows to sell merchandise, not full time toy soldier vendors.

In a perfect world, shows would have full time vendors wall to wall and also manufacturers showing new and future releases to get collectors excited; the costs to attend shows continue to go out of control, it becomes a cost vs benefit example, why are vendors from years past London shows no longer attending? If the sales were there, I am sure they would, each vendor has to decide for himself if attending shows is worthwhile economically or not. We have to make tough decisions, it's not easy to pull out of a show you've been attending for years, it's sad to be honest, but it's also a business decision, not a personal one.

The London show, much like our Chicago Show, is iconic, would hate to see either of them fade away, time will tell, I had hoped one day to attend the London Show just to see all the varied product offerings.

One of the things that appealed to me was the picture posted after the show of the TFT members who attended all gathered in a pub relaxing after the show with a good meal and some adult beverages, I had hoped to be in one of those pictures.....................we'll see what the future holds.

Not trying to be a wet blanket, just stating reality.

George,

Your analysis and commentary are spot on. You're our resident Dean of Show Vendors being a man of many years in this hobby. I didn't get in to the hobby until 2005 but have attended many shows over the years. I have become familiar with the history of the shows and you've summed it up quite well.

You speak for me (and I'm sure many others here) when you pointed out: I had hoped one day to attend the London Show just to see all the varied product offerings............. One of the things that appealed to me was the picture posted after the show of the TFT members who attended all gathered in a pub relaxing after the show with a good meal and some adult beverages, I had hoped to be in one of those pictures.....................we'll see what the future holds

Here's hoping that our hobby shows experience a revival of sorts. I would love to attend the London show and the Chicago show as well. But I fear that they either may not be around by the time I can go or that they will be a shadow of what they once were.

Mark
 

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