Loving the Elephant! (1 Viewer)

[Currahee Chris]

Agree with this point Chris, point is though, as a mobile pill box it is hard to beat - the fact that four survived all that time........

Any tank in Berlin would need that sort of armour though - have you seen the photos of the 152mm and bigger howitzers firing down the street in Berlin!!!!

If in a good defense, as in Italy, where fire and manouver were restricted....... against Shermans with pop guns in comparison...from 2 plus KM across a valley, with camo etc

As for Russia, doctrine learned at Kursk the hard way, lay back, away from infantry. Where you have good optics on the open steppe and can brew a T34 from excess of 2km......the average life of a T34 was six weeks - and most of the crews went with it - you can see why with these babies.

But once the Russians learned real blitzkreig, for example in 1944 Bagration, they just cut through the weak points and penetrated deep, then fuel consumption and speed would really matter.

Great discussion- all very good points. In reviewing my literature on the beast, it sounds like, ton for ton, it was hard to beat and that the Russians really didn't have a prayer and had to develop anti-Elephant (if you will) teams to crack this beast. Which is kind of what Dave was saying, and my lit supports too- it was prone to infantry swarming tactics- why try to penetrate 200mm of armor when you can slap a sticky onto the treads and be done with it??

Great discussion!!

 

[Canadian Samurai]

At Kursk the elephant's performance has been described as a disaster. In reality, the elephants were too good for their own sake. They would shrug off hits while everything else around them was being torn up. The problem was then they would be advancing all alone across the field without support and fall prey to the aforementioned infantry swarms.

 

[binder001]

Another problem - the Elefant shared the same wonderful mechanical reliability as other large German armor. The Elefant lived up to its name - it was a big beast that was fearsome when on its feet, but not a big problem when it was stuck. It was so big that it (like the Tigers) took multiple 18-ton halftrack recovery vehicles or a sister vehicle (gun tank or recovery vehicle) to tow it. One quote about the Elefant was "the quickest way to cause an Elefant to break down was to use it to pull another broken down Elefant".

As a dedicated Allied guy, I must admit that the Elefant is going to be a big, impressive model! It looks like Andy went to a lot of trouble to make this a nice collectible.

I really admire Andy for admitting in the advertising that it may not be right for the BoB. I can live with anachronisms if the manufacturer is up front and honest about them. Whatever paint scheme, I'll bet this one is a good seller for Andy (which means that he can put more money and effort into the next Sherman and the tank transporter to put under it!

Gary

 

[sceic2]

... I'll bet this one is a good seller for Andy (which means that he can put more money and effort into the next Sherman and the tank transporter to put under it! Gary

GARY YOU ARE A GOOD MAN!!!!

DRAGON WAGON AND BEDFORD LORRY, PLEASE.

 

[Combat]

I really admire Andy for admitting in the advertising that it may not be right for the BoB. I can live with anachronisms if the manufacturer is up front and honest about them. Whatever paint scheme, I'll bet this one is a good seller for Andy (which means that he can put more money and effort into the next Sherman and the tank transporter to put under it!

Gary

I'm a big supporter of the Elephant, but the KC advertising leaves a lot to be desired. "No reason why it can't also look good in a Normandy or Arnhem diorama." This implies to me that there were some Elephants at Normandy or Arnhem and that is not the case. More likely is that those battles are big sellers and some fuzzy association in the minds of collectors would move a few more. Again, I hope it sells well, but if anyone is buying this under the belief that it was present at Normandy or Arnhem you are mistaken.

 

[Currahee Chris]

Was interesting for me as well- after I posted here- I pulled out my tank book and just a few pages following the Ellie was the Nashorn (Rhino) which appears to have been launched right around the same time and saw its baptism of fire at Kursk as well.

Rhino- 30mm armor (compared to 200 with Ellie), still sports an 88m, speed- 26 mph, range 133 miles, weight, 23 tons.

It appears to have been far better than the Ellie-one Captain, Albert Ernst took out 14 Russian tanks in one day at Kursk with his!!

My book also states that the Rhino served on all fronts too.

 

[rws591]

Was interesting for me as well- after I posted here- I pulled out my tank book and just a few pages following the Ellie was the Nashorn (Rhino) which appears to have been launched right around the same time and saw its baptism of fire at Kursk as well.

Rhino- 30mm armor (compared to 200 with Ellie), still sports an 88m, speed- 26 mph, range 133 miles, weight, 23 tons.

It appears to have been far better than the Ellie-one Captain, Albert Ernst took out 14 Russian tanks in one day at Kursk with his!!

My book also states that the Rhino served on all fronts too.

So now we must ask for another african animal!

 

[Canadian Samurai]

I love the Nashorn. It looks generally like the Hummel K&C has made, but it was a tank destroyer rather than an artillery piece.

 

[redhugh]

Great discussion- all very good points. In reviewing my literature on the beast, it sounds like, ton for ton, it was hard to beat and that the Russians really didn't have a prayer and had to develop anti-Elephant (if you will) teams to crack this beast. Which is kind of what Dave was saying, and my lit supports too- it was prone to infantry swarming tactics- why try to penetrate 200mm of armor when you can slap a sticky onto the treads and be done with it??

Great discussion!!

does that mean we can ask andy for russian swarms The guys out at the moment aren't up to the task as they are busy directing trafficking and interogating MORE RUSSIANS...

 

[OzDigger]

I love the Nashorn. It looks generally like the Hummel K&C has made, but it was a tank destroyer rather than an artillery piece.

Hmm Nashorn, now that would make a nice complement to my Hummel.

 

[Rob]

does that mean we can ask andy for russian swarms The guys out at the moment aren't up to the task as they are busy directing trafficking and interogating MORE RUSSIANS...

Trouble is with the the T34 and German Berlin troops being retired,is that theatre of K&C Operations in decline i wonder?.

Rob