Lynchings in the US in 19th & 20th centurys (2 Viewers)

[Rob]

I have recently discoverd a part of History that I knew little about and has shocked me somewhat. I'd always thought of 'Lynchings' as the act of breaking someone out of prison and hanging them from the nearest tree. However from what I've been reading this is what happened to the 'lucky' ones!.

I honestly had no idea of the sheer brutality and sickening violence carried out at these events. Torture, mutilations, amputations and finally burning alive were common. One of the most famous, brutal and well organized Lynchings was visited upon one Henry Smith an ex slave who apparently confessed to the truly brutal killing of a young girl, Mytle Vance, whose father Smith had a grudge against. After going on the run he was hunted down and amid much celebrating and excitement was brought back to Paris Texas to face a hideous death. Having been paraded around the town tied to a chair on a float, he was taken out to scaffold erected on a prairie outside the town.

Tied to the scaffold and stripped to the waist he was for some fifty minutes burned all over his body with Red hot Irons by members of his victims family. Then having his eyes burnt out and an Iron placed down his throat and still breathing the scaffold was set on fire.

What shocked me is that there are a series of photos of this event including one in which family members are burning his feet and legs with hot Irons.This man was one of thousands killed like this, black and white, over the decades.

What I wanted to ask my American friends is this, did you learn about these Lynchings as you grew up, were they discussed openly or was it a taboo subject swept under the carpet so to speak.

I understand the Lynchings started after the Civil War when great tension existed.

Would appreciate an American view on this.

Rob

 

[Mitch]

God thats sounds awful. Will be interesting to here the opinions from across the pond
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Mitch, I honestly did not know that such tortures were carried out like this, there were men and women who suffered worse than Smith did. Sometimes it was racial hatred on both sides, other times dissatisfaction with the law. These were of course (especially after the ACW) very fraught, traumatic, dangerous times. It for me sounded like it was another national trauma America went through on its way to finding a peace with itself. Tragic on all sides.

(As for Henry Smith, yes he suffered an awful death, but if you read what he confessed to, well I won't post it on a forum, but I'm surprised he made it alive to the scaffold)

It states in Wiki that there were also lynchings in Britain and mainland Europe, but I am still reading about US History right now.

Must say the whole Wild West/ACW/Post ACW era are fascinating, its so interesting reading about the forging of a nation.
Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

Not what was taught to my wife as she has just told me. I looked up the guy on the net and yes a nasty piece of work but, a bit nasty. Mind you, what would this type of punishment do to our crime rates today???
Mitch

 

[jazzeum]

Gents,

They were pretty common place in the South unfortunately but I believe it happened in the North too so no one is immune. There were instances of people being lynched just for whistling at a white girl. Crowds would sometime gather at lynchings and cheer, children included.

I don't know if you've listened to Billie Holliday's song "Bitter Fruit," but it is about lynchings.

 

[Rob]

Rob...

Not what was taught to my wife as she has just told me. I looked up the guy on the net and yes a nasty piece of work but, a bit nasty. Mind you, what would this type of punishment do to our crime rates today???
Mitch

Yes we might have less young drunks urinating in public!!!

I was reading of another case in (if memory serves) Omaha, in which a stand off around a building holding a man wanted by the Lynch mob, erupted into a full scale riot and assualt on the building.Many killed and injured including the Mayor who tried to talk to the mob. The article ends with the picture of everybody stood around said mans body on a fire.

Gruesome but fascinating at the same time, often the case with History.

Rob

 

[Rob]

Gents,

They were pretty common place in the South unfortunately but I believe it happened in the North too so no one is immune. There were instances of people being lynched just for whistling at a white girl. Crowds would sometime gather at lynchings and cheer, children included.

I don't know if you've listened to Billie Holliday's song "Bitter Fruit," but it is about lynchings.

Havn't heard the song myself Brad but it is mentioned a lot in relation to Lynchings.

Growing up watching Westerns one might get a certain impression of Lynchings,but the truth of course is normally much worse!

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Frightening is it not how we have treat each other over the centuries. It does make me wonder what we do when you see kids jeering with aggression in some of the worlds hot spots how we ever think we are going to have a more peacful and tolerant world when you teach kids who to hate.

Suppose we are no different to a few hundered years ago only the punishments have changed. As you say though very interesting to know
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Frightening is it not how we have treat each other over the centuries. It does make me wonder what we do when you see kids jeering with aggression in some of the worlds hot spots how we ever think we are going to have a more peacful and tolerant world when you teach kids who to hate.

Suppose we are no different to a few hundered years ago only the punishments have changed. As you say though very interesting to know
Mitch

Very true. When you think of the executions suffered in London hundreds of years back it makes you realise how barbaric we were. Throw in some of the tortures carried out in the Tower of London and its pretty grim.

I once watched a tv series on the Tower. And only one man was ever tortured for no other reason than punishment. He was a guard at the Tower and had fallen in love with a female prisoner. He was caught trying to help her escape, the Captain of the guard was enraged and the poor man was racked, put in the cell of 'Little Ease' (tiny cell where you could only crouch not stand or sit) and finally hung in chains over the Tower wall.

We have all come a long way since then...hopefully!!

Rob

 

[Peter Reuss]

I suspect that for many Americans this is quite a sensitive issue. It's not exactly something we look back on with pride.

Did it happen? Yes. Do we want it to happen again? No.

Whilst I can understand your curiosity on the subject, I fear that it will arouse some passions on this side of the pond.

 

[Rob]

Peter, my interest is purely Historical and I would never take sides. However I understand your worries re the inflamed passion, this was the case with my 'Nazi invasion of Britain' thread that was ruined for us. I would not want to cause you to have to 'Clean up in aisle three' again, so if it looks like going off the rails please just shut it down. I was just wondering really if it was something you all grew up learning about or not, but no problem.

Cheers

Rob

 

[thebritfarmer]

Similar events took place in Germany although I believe in the 16th Century my memory is a little rusty it's been over 20 years . There is a church in Munster which has cages and the outside of the bell tower. Criminals we placed in the cages and tortured with hot tings until they were at deaths door. The cages were then hoisted to the top for the townsfolk to see.

 

[theBaron]

...I was just wondering really if it was something you all grew up learning about or not, but no problem.

Cheers

Rob

Hi, Rob, to answer your question, yes, we do learn about this in school.

 

[Rob]

Hi, Rob, to answer your question, yes, we do learn about this in school.

Thank you Brad.

Rob

 

[mikemiller1955]

Peter, my interest is purely Historical and I would never take sides. However I understand your worries re the inflamed passion, this was the case with my 'Nazi invasion of Britain' thread that was ruined for us. I would not want to cause you to have to 'Clean up in aisle three' again, so if it looks like going off the rails please just shut it down. I was just wondering really if it was something you all grew up learning about or not, but no problem.

Cheers

Rob

Rob...from my school days...yes we were made aware of many gross racial injustices to some degree in America's history classes...every child in America is aware of the KKK...on that note...no...I never heard the story of the Smith/Vance atrocities...the story is shockingly graphic and not an isolated case in early American history...as it probably existed in some form all over the world and still does in some countries...I have read some very graphic stories about present day Afghanistan and the Taliban...as the world becomes more civilized...these incidents become more rare...these topics were touched upon to the same extent as the Inquisition...the Holucast...Idi Amin...the genocide of African tribes...the list is endless about cruelties to people that are "different" to the people that rule and enforce...

so yes...American students and the general American populace were and are made aware of these injustices...through education, media or television...

about to the same extent that we became knowledgeable about similar injustices worldwide...

 

[Scott]

There are some statistics and sources here.....

http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1979/2/79.02.04.x.html

 

[Rob]

Thanks Michael. Education is the key to preventing such things I guess. As you say outrages and atrocities are carried out all over the world by many different nations, and my country of course was involved in its fair share of them through History.

I find USA History really interesting and and although this is a dark episode it is none the less all part of what America went through on the way to where it is now. Hope you guys didn't mind me asking you about it.

Rob

 

[Scott]

This stuff stops when there is more education, less superstition, AND the victimized have more political and economic power. The culture has to change so that it's no longer "OK" within the culture to do this stuff.

 

[lancer]

I must say that this thread has been very civil. I expected it to go downhill fast, considering it's subject matter. It is not a subject I care to comment on, but there have been good answers to the question. -- Al

 

[Rob]

I must say that this thread has been very civil. I expected it to go downhill fast, considering it's subject matter. It is not a subject I care to comment on, but there have been good answers to the question. -- Al

I agree, it has been discussed without lose of temper etc. Its very encouraging that we can discuss difficult issues on here without hidden agendas, baiting or the need for deletions, its a pleasure to talk to you guys.

Rob