M26 Pershing arrived (3 Viewers)
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maddadicus
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I am a sucker for different stuff, are the scale experts happy with the relative size of this tank next to a Sherman or other tanks? Michael
Firebat
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Michael
As an advocate of size and proportion, I don't use technical means I go by feel and luckily we have some very astute members who I am sure can answer our questions exactly.
Then there are also the accuracy questions...........
I made my bed by promoting these aspects and now they are tiring me out and taking enjoyment out of the hobby....Since I am very aware of this I can usually tell when a figure and vehicle are not working or AFV's are not working with each other.
BUT SOMETIMES I CAN'T....Then comes the EXHAUSTIVE research.
I don't have time for the research....I WANT TIME TO PLAY
MANUFACTURERS please get yourselves together and do everything in accurate 1/30th scale, so we don't have to do all of this leg work.
( To Brian I appreciate you giving us a stopgap by doing 1/28th vehicles, but every time you put out a new vehicle we have to make sure you are sticking with your 1/28th format.)
I am not real familiar with the Pershing and my " By feel" method is not working with this one.....So I also await the professional work up on this one.
But I really like the tank, I hope it is accurate ( And sized in 1/28th until we can get everything done in 1/30th )
Alex
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Blowtorch
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This is definitely a BBT (Big Beautiful Tank)
It significantly overlaps a Bradford 1/30 diagram in all dimensions. For precise numbers, it measures 130mm in width, which come out to 1/27. It works well with the CS & recent K&C E8 Shermans as they are also a bit fluffy, as reported here
http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/fo...her-makers-Mismatch-or-misunderstanding/page2
Glad you like it. I always admired the Pershing design and the fact it could stand toe to toe with the Tiger I. Could you please advise me what the width of your Pershing? I would like to calculate the scale. Thank You
Mitch
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Still not sure why we now have the issue. For goodness sake why can manufacturers not get it right the hobby states 1/30th and simply it should be.
Do we have some math problems or similar. Alex I would not agree that it is exhaustive to work out scale it is actually very simple. This allows the manufacturers to have an explanation for what really is sloppy work to keep doing this
1/27th is miles away so is 1/28th and does make a difference. There is no excuse if the hobby is 1/30th make it 1/30th
Mitch
Do we have some math problems or similar. Alex I would not agree that it is exhaustive to work out scale it is actually very simple. This allows the manufacturers to have an explanation for what really is sloppy work to keep doing this
1/27th is miles away so is 1/28th and does make a difference. There is no excuse if the hobby is 1/30th make it 1/30th
Mitch
I agree fully with what you say. First Legion and Figarti are compliant with the 1/30 scale standard. The other manufacturers are driven by the increasing figure size; typically 68MM to increase vehicle size. Given the current situation it would be reasonable for larger scale manufacturers to recognize the reality and designate their products as 1/27 scale instead of confusing collectors. The collector can than decide which scale meets their requirements. The trend seems to be towards maintaining the 1/30 (60MM) standard as evidenced by the success of First Legion and Figarti. Ultimately the market will determine which scale prevails! Regards
Firebat
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Figarti is OK with the AFV's, but their figures are not yet in line with pure 1/30th, we are currently taking up this subject in earnest on the Battleground Art Technical Forum.
Very true about the Figarti figures. I just measured the figure from the Figarti Panther G. The figure measure 67.1 MM with my digital calipers. No base so the measurement is from soles of the feet to top of the head. The equation for figure scale is measured height divided into actual height. Assuming an average male height of 5'9" (1752MM) in 1944; the scale of the Figarti figure is 1/26. The figure stands 7.4MM higher than the Panther G deck which is 59.6 MM. The deck height is a 1/30 scale 6 foot high and is correct within .4 MM. The figure would have to be height of 6"6" to be half a head taller than the Panther G deck. Not very realistic IMHO. Alex if you will tell me what the width of your Pershing is I will calculate the scale for you.
A full scale Pershing is 138 inches wide; so your TCS Pershing is 1/26.92 scale. Call it 1/27; which is perfect for the figures from TCS, K&H, and Thomas Gunn. The larger Figarti figures will work also. To avoid confusion I usually use a vehicles width to determine scale as the length and height as measured in references include too many variables i.e. gun length, height to roof or cupola etc.
Firebat
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Thanks my man !
Now I can put it in a properly scaled diorama.
Thanks to TCS and their stopgap 1/28th stuff...Until this hobby can straighten itself out with all 1/30th scale stuff. ( Well I can dream......Can't I {sm4} )
Alex I hate to bring it up but scale is only one of several factors. Proportionality is another i.e. the height if the deck of the Honor Bound Panther A is 6MM higher than the Figarti Panther G. The Figarti Panther is correct for 1/30 scale at 60MM high. Why is the Honor Bound Panther A 6 MM too high? A comment was made on the Winter Jagdpanther thread about the ground clearance of the TSC Jagdpanther versus the K&H Jagdpanther. The Tsc is quite low; yet so is the Figarti Panther G. Scale issues also abound with manufacturers not strictly in the Toy Soldier community. Comparing Pershing's ; the Forces of Valor model is 1/31 not 1/32 as advertised. The Forces of Valor 1/24 Radio Control Pershing is 1/25 scale not 1/24 scale as advertised. I think the various manufacturers count on the fact that most collectors will not notice the inaccuracies. However when you are constructing a diorama with multiple vehicles and figures the inaccuracies accumulate and can become profound; as you have discovered Alex when constructing your excellent dioramas. You have done well to analyze the discrepancies and compensate by selecting products from multiple manufacturers that are compatible in both scale and proportion. As you stated the eye is the ultimate judge of realism! Regards
Firebat
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Mitch
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Thing is manufacturers don't make their items so they can be mixed and matched. They want you to buy their items and their items alone. I have found that mixing manufacturers is always problematic so, I tend not to. If the manufacturers sell their products a few moaning on a forum will not make them change. If they don't sell their products they will then have to take a look at why that is and then, and only then, will they remedy what they see as the issue.
Scale is simple it is either wrong or, it is right. It is no good trying to re-invent the wheel almost trying to say something is 1/30th when it is not as has been done. it is concrete and non debatable.
We do come back to the point that manufacturers draw comfort from in that most when discussing scale and accuracy just either don't care or, don't have the intelligence (in terms of research skills), or interest in what an item should be scaled at or detailed as so long as it kind of looks like what they have in their minds eye. it is good enough for them to then buy.
That is why we all get the products we do with scale and detail inaccuracy. If everyone was really bothered about these issues then we would have everything correct within a month.
Mitch
Scale is simple it is either wrong or, it is right. It is no good trying to re-invent the wheel almost trying to say something is 1/30th when it is not as has been done. it is concrete and non debatable.
We do come back to the point that manufacturers draw comfort from in that most when discussing scale and accuracy just either don't care or, don't have the intelligence (in terms of research skills), or interest in what an item should be scaled at or detailed as so long as it kind of looks like what they have in their minds eye. it is good enough for them to then buy.
That is why we all get the products we do with scale and detail inaccuracy. If everyone was really bothered about these issues then we would have everything correct within a month.
Mitch
Firebat
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I guess we have to just stop buying until it gets straightened out
I'm in.
Actually it is not that bad
You would just not buy
K&C Figures
TGM Figures
Figarti Figures
TCS Figures and AFV's ( Which is a shame because Brian actually helped us out, but he could go back to 1/32 in a heartbeat.
I'm in.
Actually it is not that bad
You would just not buy
K&C Figures
TGM Figures
Figarti Figures
TCS Figures and AFV's ( Which is a shame because Brian actually helped us out, but he could go back to 1/32 in a heartbeat.
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I can understand the increase of figure size to 60MM from 54MM to create a new product class and reduce competition. What I cannot understand is why the figure size continues to increase. Size has gone from 60MM to 68MM over the last 6 years. The first TCS Tiger I was a correct 60mm (1/30 Scale) in both vehicle and figure size; the Stug II than jumped to 1/28 scale; what prompted the chang? Figarti decided to jump to 1/30 scale from 1/32 scale and at least their vehicles remain at 1/30 scale although the figures have grown. The Komander of the Panther G is a 1/27 scale figure in a 1/30 scale vehicle!
Irrational to say the least. Regards
Blowtorch
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K&C figs are the market leader by miles & miles. In terms of quality, variety, quantity, considered together which throws FL out. One corner that K&C has historically cut has been vehicle size. I've always been under the impression that they wanted to make the smallest they could get away with. Before there were forums for people to pipe on, 1/32 was the norm (which Figarti was originally emulating). When HB came out, K&C reacted & made 1/30 the norm or faced extinction (again Figarti emulated). Brian/TCS saw a window of opportunity & jumped through it to make the vehicles more scale appropriate for the zillions of figs out there. People do like them and K&C has reacted yet once more judging from the size of their recent Sherman E8. The only crime Brian can be accused of is calling his stuff 1/30 which is just marketing at work.
I like some K&C figures; like the Panzer Ace and the Panzer Komander 1/2 figures are excellent. I do not like the oversize weapons; which I understand to be a style affectation.
I feel it detracts from figures which I would otherwise choose to collect i.e. the Panzer Meyer figure is excellent except for weapon size. TSC has done some figures as good as K&C i.e. the panzer reloading set and the Sep Detrich figure with the innovative removable base, The George Patton figure is the best I have seen in this hobby. I only wish Brian would sell it individually and paint the pistol grip Ivory as it should be. I do not really care what scale the figures are as long as they are proportionate with the vehicles. I am using K&C and TCS figures with 1/25 Tamiya and Academy models as they look more realistic than with under scale vehicles. I have a collection of Minichamps armor and I use the excellent Dragon CanDo 1/35 figures with them. The match is perfect I only wish the 60MM manufacturers could do as well. Regards
Blowtorch
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Oh, that and screwing up the Tiger I road wheels!! {sm4}
Brian, those Tiger I's don't count. You still haven't done an early Tiger I yet, so get cracking