Market Place in Free-fall....Look Out Below! (1 Viewer)

[Njja]

Wow, what a mess Nearly 2000 items listed.....dealers dumping items (starting them below original list) and now we have the $.01 listers Oh
well, I did try and warn everyone several times.......

Ok, this is not a debate about what an item is worth, we have beaten that horse to death, this is simply about the marketplace.

I speak about it because I was there when it began, and not just with King & Country, I have seen it numerious times in the other fields I am active in.

Reguarding King & Country when I began collecting there was 0 listings on ebay. I would say there was a very limited secondary market, if any. I recall Louis saying he made deals for the sitting stock of wooden vehicles from several dealers. I remember finding Treefrog on the internet and purchasing the entire Roman Fort which had been retired, and being quite pleased.

When new items slowly began to come out I decided to sell items that had been my 3rd or 4th choice from the shop I purchased K&C from to make room. I was quite thrilled to get my $89 back to buy a new set (less selling fees) imagine someone wanting my WS26 with the driver so out of scale (sorry Andy) maybe he really was 8' tall. Each day I would check for K&C listings and find none.....then one day someone listed an AN set and it sold with a buy it now for $400! I only had one Arnhem set at the time the AN16 sitting alone in a showcase, so I decided to list mine because I have several new sets I wanted to get and mine sold in 15 minutes!
Then a WS15W the real Winter Tiger (ok, I know its not the wooden version) sold for $1,000 and the market took off.

It became a great place where you could go and find almost anything, even on rare occasion a wooden piece! You could also usually quite easily sell almost anything to purchase something else you wanted to buy. It was free and easy (not speaking about fees here). No right or wrong, everyone free to buy or sell what they wanted to just like our free market system.

What people fail to realize is that no one forces you to bid on something you feel is too expensive.

Also no matter who you are, there are always going to be items priced outside your budget.

Finally, when something sells for a high price, another person will be encouraged to sell his, thus giving someone else a chance to obtain a rare piece.......all of this is good.

Today all of that is in disarray, people can't seem to help themselves listing on top of each other, and now what prompted me starting this thread is out and out FRAUD by a lister.

We have a person listing an item and claiming its limited to 500 pieces when actually 1250 were made.

Now anyone can make a mistake, so I dropped him a note giving him the correct information.

He told me I was wrong. So I asked him to simply check the King & Country website, correct his information with no need to respond.

He told me to mind my own business, well providing accurate information to another collector about something he is thinking about buying should be every decent collectors business.

Anyone interested in this sellers id can send me a pm or drop me a note at njja@bellsouth.net I will be happy to provide you the information and auction number.

 

[jbonzo1]

"Finally, when something sells for a high price, another person will be encouraged to sell his, thus giving someone else a chance to obtain a rare piece.......all of this is good."

This is very good, I have picked up quite a few sets this way!
As for the guy fudging the number, that's something that could be reported to ebay. Seems like a fraudulent claim.

 

[Njja]

"Finally, when something sells for a high price, another person will be encouraged to sell his, thus giving someone else a chance to obtain a rare piece.......all of this is good."

This is very good, I have picked up quite a few sets this way!
As for the guy fudging the number, that's something that could be reported to ebay. Seems like a fraudulent claim.

....................................................................................................

Yes since many of us do not have many shows we might attend to find older items. Over the years I have obtaining many unusal items from all over the world without ever having to leave my den!

This is an example of an item I purchased from a seller in Hong Kong, where it was originally sold, and for quite a bit less then original retail!

The marketplace has been very nice, its sad to see it in its current condition.

The fellow is unreasonable, I simply advised him of the error. He told me I
was incorrect, so I suggested he checked the King & Country site. He told me to get lost.......funny, the wife often tells me the same thing.

Bad way to do business.

My SAS01 from Hong Kong.

 

[jazzeum]

John,

Was that the fellow from New Hampshire, selling the new kings X Rough Rider items?

If one and the same, he's a piece of work. That would be the nicest thing I could say about him.

 

[Njja]

John,

Was that the fellow from New Hampshire, selling the new kings X Rough Rider items?

If one and the same, he's a piece of work. That would be the nicest thing I could say about him.

.................................................................................................

No Brad, you might remember this one, it was listed very early one morning then disappeared! The fellow was selling a small collection he said he had purchased new at Andy's Store in Hong Kong. He had the RAF Mechanic set and the SAS01 set and a few other items. I dropped him a note when I saw it posted and we made a deal and I picked it up. You sent me a note asking what happened!

I was half asleep as it was one of my all-nighters in the den......between ebay and the asian markets I tend to overdo on occasion!

 

[Flammenpanzer]

Your right the prices have been pretty crazy. I was able to pick up an early PzIV for a good price. Now for a deal on a Krupp.

 

[nmrocks]

It's a great time to buy!

 

[BlakeWR85]

Your right the prices have been pretty crazy. I was able to pick up an early PzIV for a good price. Now for a deal on a Krupp.

It's funny to hear that GOOD prices are "pretty crazy," you'd think it would be a norm

 

[Njja]

It's funny to hear that GOOD prices are "pretty crazy," you'd think it would be a norm

.............................................................

I would agree its a great time if you are buying!

Lets hope some wooden sets pop up.

 

[kilted vampire]

It figures the market poops and my income is so limited right now!

 

[MarkeytMaker]

Wow, what a mess Nearly 2000 items listed.....dealers dumping items (starting them below original list) and now we have the $.01 listers Oh
well, I did try and warn everyone several times.......

Ok, this is not a debate about what an item is worth, we have beaten that horse to death, this is simply about the marketplace.

I speak about it because I was there when it began, and not just with King & Country, I have seen it numerious times in the other fields I am active in.

Reguarding King & Country when I began collecting there was 0 listings on ebay. I would say there was a very limited secondary market, if any. I recall Louis saying he made deals for the sitting stock of wooden vehicles from several dealers. I remember finding Treefrog on the internet and purchasing the entire Roman Fort which had been retired, and being quite pleased.

When new items slowly began to come out I decided to sell items that had been my 3rd or 4th choice from the shop I purchased K&C from to make room. I was quite thrilled to get my $89 back to buy a new set (less selling fees) imagine someone wanting my WS26 with the driver so out of scale (sorry Andy) maybe he really was 8' tall. Each day I would check for K&C listings and find none.....then one day someone listed an AN set and it sold with a buy it now for $400! I only had one Arnhem set at the time the AN16 sitting alone in a showcase, so I decided to list mine because I have several new sets I wanted to get and mine sold in 15 minutes!
Then a WS15W the real Winter Tiger (ok, I know its not the wooden version) sold for $1,000 and the market took off.

It became a great place where you could go and find almost anything, even on rare occasion a wooden piece! You could also usually quite easily sell almost anything to purchase something else you wanted to buy. It was free and easy (not speaking about fees here). No right or wrong, everyone free to buy or sell what they wanted to just like our free market system.

What people fail to realize is that no one forces you to bid on something you feel is too expensive.

Also no matter who you are, there are always going to be items priced outside your budget.

Finally, when something sells for a high price, another person will be encouraged to sell his, thus giving someone else a chance to obtain a rare piece.......all of this is good.

Today all of that is in disarray, people can't seem to help themselves listing on top of each other, and now what prompted me starting this thread is out and out FRAUD by a lister.

We have a person listing an item and claiming its limited to 500 pieces when actually 1250 were made.

Now anyone can make a mistake, so I dropped him a note giving him the correct information.

He told me I was wrong. So I asked him to simply check the King & Country website, correct his information with no need to respond.

He told me to mind my own business, well providing accurate information to another collector about something he is thinking about buying should be every decent collectors business.

Anyone interested in this sellers id can send me a pm or drop me a note at njja@bellsouth.net I will be happy to provide you the information and auction number.

I think placing a high "buy it now" price and having the item sit with never selling...then relisting it only to be unsold again establishes less interest and a maxium high price one should never have to pay...more damaging then good...for the secondary market sellers of course!

 

[jazzeum]

As far as comparing to where things used to be in this category to where it is now, this is the natural evolution it seems as merchants move in. Back in 1998 when I first became interested in jazz, I could go through the listings quickly and I picked up the heart of my collection this way. In recent years, the CD internet sellers moved in and the whole category is a mess, going from 3,000 listings to about 100,000. I don't look at it anymore. Just too much trouble. I'll bet this has happened to many other categories as well.

 

[Njja]

It figures the market poops and my income is so limited right now!

...................................................

KV, that is probably a contributing factor! You are now seeing more and more

items selling below retail. Now we are in the era of the $.01 listings. I hope

the $9.99 listing guys are happy now, I feel they are directly responsible for

the current state of the market.

 

[Njja]

I think placing a high "buy it now" price and having the item sit with never selling...then relisting it only to be unsold again establishes less interest and a maxium high price one should never have to pay...more damaging then good...for the secondary market sellers of course!

..................................................................................................

I'm sure you understand what you are trying to say......but I couldn't make any sense out of it.

The market, and supply and demand determine price or value of an item. I have seen several sellers list items for very high prices ($100's over actual

achieved prices) and most of the time they do not sell, but on occasion these sellers do move items. That is their choice, and I supose they have a plan.

I evaluate the current market values (difficult at the moment) and price items I list accordingly. Most of the people I deal with do not like to wait

around a week of more for the opportunity to obtain an item, and prefer to buy it on the spot, which is what I like to do myself.

Current market really doesn't do anyone any good.......if items have questionable value why buy them?

Okay, I know true collectors don't care about the value.....

Lets be practical, lets rule out all the millionaries out there.

The average collector probably buys more figures then he knows he really needs.....partly because he feels he is not throwing his money down a black

hole. He may not be doing it to actually make money.....but he certainly doesn't think his wife is correct when she says He has lost his

mind!

Are there any of us out there that hasen't seen that look in our wife's eye when we proudly show her something we just spent a small fortune (in her

mind on)?

 

[Njja]

As far as comparing to where things used to be in this category to where it is now, this is the natural evolution it seems as merchants move in. Back in 1998 when I first became interested in jazz, I could go through the listings quickly and I picked up the heart of my collection this way. In recent years, the CD internet sellers moved in and the whole category is a mess, going from 3,000 listings to about 100,000. I don't look at it anymore. Just too much trouble. I'll bet this has happened to many other categories as well.

................................................................................................

Excellent point, and exactly what we are dealing with today.

I guess its human nature, some people see an item they like and buy a

second to sell or trade later to perhaps fund another purchase.

Others decide to buy 10 on credit to get rich......only when the bill comes

with 21% interest they panic and decide to list all 10 now for $.01 each.

And people wonder why less then 1% of Americans leave an estate valued

in access of 1 million.

 

[MarkeytMaker]

..................................................................................................

I'm sure you understand what you are trying to say......but I couldn't make any sense out of it.

The market, and supply and demand determine price or value of an item. I have seen several sellers list items for very high prices ($100's over actual

achieved prices) and most of the time they do not sell, but on occasion these sellers do move items. That is their choice, and I supose they have a plan.

I evaluate the current market values (difficult at the moment) and price items I list accordingly. Most of the people I deal with do not like to wait

around a week of more for the opportunity to obtain an item, and prefer to buy it on the spot, which is what I like to do myself.

Current market really doesn't do anyone any good.......if items have questionable value why buy them?

Okay, I know true collectors don't care about the value.....

Lets be practical, lets rule out all the millionaries out there.

The average collector probably buys more figures then he knows he really needs.....partly because he feels he is not throwing his money down a black

hole. He may not be doing it to actually make money.....but he certainly doesn't think his wife is correct when she says He has lost his

mind!

Are there any of us out there that hasen't seen that look in our wife's eye when we proudly show her something we just spent a small fortune (in her

mind on)?

I'm sure you understand what you are trying to say......but I couldn't make any sense out of it.

SO I'M NOT SO SURE I GOT IT EITHER!

Bare with me this might hurt more than the first post As an example there are items that normally sell in the $250 range (regardless of starting the price at $9.99 or $99.00, though not too high)...then someone lists the same item for $399 "Buy it now"...this item doesn't sell so it gets relisted once again for the same price and still doesn't sell..though the normally selling $250 item sometimes brought $400 plus. So the person who listed the "Buy It now" item at $399 was in the realm of reality on asking $399...well since the $399 "Buy it now" has established a so called ceiling and continues to be unsold it now seems to have set the limit....not at $399 but rather a new low for the item in general...maybe $150-$200...seems the interest itself gets sort of lost I guess??? It seems more so benificial on value to have the item with 15 bids selling at $400 or plus $400 than one that sat at $399 with a "Buy it now" going unsold two or more times back to back. I'm not knocking the guy who listed the item at $399 "Buy it now"...he just provides himself a gauranteed price either way and thats his right to do so...for me I'll take the lower price item opportunity that becomes the result...unless I'm selling the same item~!

Now who felt more pain...me who typed this...or you who was brave enough to read it?

 

[Njja]

Wow thats tough to understand.....but I'll give it a shot!

You mentioned something normally selling in the $250 range..... so that would be its actual value. The fact that someone listed theirs for $399 is of no importance to me (as someone keeping a value list) when the listing ends, and it is relisted and again doesn't sell everyone can pretty
much assume its way over priced.

Why do some people do it, well I can't say for sure, but I have tracked a few and believe it or not they usually sell 1 or 2 items a month at high prices so I guess they are happy?

Next lets look at the item bringing $250, is that actually the price? Well certainly one did sell for that, but now 1 buyer has the piece, so the new price is really yet to be determined until the next auction.

What I do is unimportant, but suffice it to say I study the market, and list my item at what I consider to be the current value, using Buy-it-now, and allow an interested party to make an offer...just like you were dealing face to face. If its not a dealer, and its reasonable its fun to make a deal.

Now lets try to be honest here. Unless you are giving an item away most people decide to sell something because they either have something they want to buy, or they want the cash.

The only reason someone lists an item for $14.99 when they paid $89 is because they figure they will screw the guy listing it for $19.99!

Sorry guys, I have heard all the "I want a lot of bids nonsense, and

the "I want to create excitement" routine.....but its just pure bunk.

I have had these same guys cry the blues when an item sells for $90 and they watched it sell last week for $275.

And now, I have to laugh.....because we now have the $9.99 listers.....and

even one new guy listing items for $.01

Boy that has to be a real kick in the pants for Mr $9.99 "I want to create excitement! good luck with that.

Brad was right when he pointed out a similar situation in the music marketplace (based on what he said.....I'm certainly no expert there)

In the end it all works out I supose, for now its a buyers market and you have a good chance to find some really nice sets at rock bottom prices...sometimes even below original list.

For the sellers, its great also..because all the "Bargin Basement Boys"
will spend all their pennies on tissues to wipe away the tears when their items sell for less then shipping.

Oh and I just love some of them complaining about the problems they are having with shipping and their customers......if you sell an item you started at $9.99 for $75 the buyer believes you got it for $5 I'm sorry thats just human nature. Now if you charge him $10 on top of the $75 you really can expect trouble.....in his mind you made $80 on an $85 sale.

So what do you do? Well just have fun, not much else can be done at this point. Me, personally I could care less, I mean I feel bad for anyone that has the need to sell something, and I hope that situation is the exception not the norm.

I have always advacated having your collection fund itself so it really makes little difference to me.

I have just been doing this a long long time now, and I can tell you if the "retired" market collapses, thats not good for anyone.

I hope this clears up the original post I did, or makes it easier to understand.

The examples of sellers represented "no individuals in particular" ....so

if you thought you saw yourself..........you were mistaken.

 

[Njja]

Just for the record I found nothing in MarkeyMaker post to be either rude or offense in the slightest, he simply asked me for a little clarification on a previous post.

My reply was not intended to be rude or offensive in the slightest, and was not directed at him, which he understands. It was about the secondary market.

Unfortunately, most of this stuff simply goes sailing over eveyones head.

How thats possible is really beyond me.......but thats life I guess.

 

[MarkeytMaker]

Just for the record I found nothing in MarkeyMaker post to be either rude or offense in the slightest, he simply asked me for a little clarification on a previous post.

My reply was not intended to be rude or offensive in the slightest, and was not directed at him, which he understands. It was about the secondary market.

Unfortunately, most of this stuff simply goes sailing over eveyones head.

How thats possible is really beyond me.......but thats life I guess.

For me to have a post deleted against you for being rude and not cival like is rather hard to figure...even more so since we consider each other friends...I think the moderator misread it or got ahead of himself. I hope he puts the posts back because I put effort into that post and it hurt my brain deeply putting all them numbers together.

 

[thebritfarmer]

Didn't go over my head, I knew exactly what Markey meant by his inital post.