Marshal Petain - Both Hero and Traitor - But No Longer on the Map (2 Viewers)
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Interesting article. Thanks for the link. I have studied the French Army of WW1 since I was in high school and it is my belief that Petain is the THE hero for WW1 France. Foch could never have restored order during the army mutinies of 1917 as efficiently or quickly as Petain did and time was of the utmost importance. History can only conjecture on what would have happened if the mutinies had been more prolonged and become more widespread. The Germans would have surely discovered them had they gone on and that would have been the event that gave Germany victory. Petain contained and ended the mutinies quickly and the Germans never did find out about them in time to react. Add to this the fact that Petain was one of the few French commanders that understood the use of firepower and the importance of his soldiers lives and the importance of Petain is obvious. The disgrace of WW2 is much more complicated than just labeling Petain as a traitor. Simply put, Petain stepped into a leadership vacuum, in a no win situation. Many awful things occurred in the name of Vichy but without Petain, his prestige and presence, things would have gone much worse for all involved. Petain believed he was saving France and doing what he could for the French people. It is a pity that history proved him wrong and has condemned him for it. Petain deserves his place as a hero of France. -- Al
jazzeum
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As a hero of WW I but complicit in what happened in France in WW II, it's hard for me to take a position one way or the other. However, just like the Billy the Kid pardon, I think there are probably more important things to worry about.
True. Since the WW1 generation is gone and the WW2 generation going, those that care about this particular part of history are fading fast. France will move past this argument that has been running for 65+ years. I just hope that Petain is not forgotten for his WW1 service and that one day the French will come to their senses and let Petain be buried at Verdun with his men. It is well earned and about time. -- Al
Sans Culotte
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Even Benedict Arnold was a patriot once. Often, it's not the best or greatest things that people are remembered for, but the least or last deeds.
Combat
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Petain's WWI service is all well and good, but he was convicted of treason and implicit in the deaths of thousands of Jews. It's difficult to argue he is deserving of any public honors. Some Nazis were WWI heroes as well. For example, Goring. But I doubt there would be any controversy about removing public monuments or streets dedicated to those individuals.
Petain is and will remain a very controversial subject. Rarely in history is there such an example of a man who is owed so much for his service (WW1) and then is so reviled for his later actions in the service of the same country. I submit that the big difference between Petain and others who served, either for Vichy or Germany, is one of intent. Petain took his position in order to protect Frenchmen. It is his tragedy that the Germans and the Vichy officials under Laval had other, more sinister plans that Petain, as headman, is responsible for. Public honors are probably inappropriate, and unneccesary, as history has already judged, but the simple act of letting Petain be buried at the sight of one of his military triumphs is hardly out of line. Petain is one of the great tragic characters of history. -- Al
Currahee Chris
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Interesting positions from both sides-
me personally, I expect my commanders to hold the colors. Death before dishonor- if you have to go into a bunch of contrived arguments to defend your actions, then you probably weren't doing the right thing to begin with. These guys know upon the taking of command and oath that they may have to fall on the sword someday- which I think he should have. Rather than trying to help the country out, admit the cause is lost and go out in a blaze of glory.
I personally wouldn't want the man buried near me. Can't imagine a lot of those vets would either.
me personally, I expect my commanders to hold the colors. Death before dishonor- if you have to go into a bunch of contrived arguments to defend your actions, then you probably weren't doing the right thing to begin with. These guys know upon the taking of command and oath that they may have to fall on the sword someday- which I think he should have. Rather than trying to help the country out, admit the cause is lost and go out in a blaze of glory.
I personally wouldn't want the man buried near me. Can't imagine a lot of those vets would either.
Currahee Chris
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Jeesh. Really? How so? -- AlSame could probably be said for Hitler
Good one.
He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and BANG, he becomes der leader. Talk about bad luck. -- Al
Mitch
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I have not read deeply on the subject as Lancer obviously has but, from what I have it seems he thought he was doing the best thing he could in a difficult (to say the least) situation. Really with the germans he was between a rock and a hard place. Hindsight is a great thing but, I would argue that France may have suffered worse and similar to Poland maybe, without Petain.
Mitch
Mitch
Very much what I believe and certainly what Petain himself believed. Petain was long retired and 84 years old when he was recalled to lead France after her other "leaders" all abdicated their responsibilities. As I said earlier, he was in a no win situation, knew it, and went to his duty anyway. There are many twists and turns to the whole Vichy period that the French don't like to face to this day. -- Al
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Time magazine article:
France's effort to fully examine the dark truths of its Nazi Occupation has gotten another significant boost with the unveiling of a document that exposes the activist role of the Vichy regime in persecuting Jews. The October 1940 draft law shows the personal intervention of Vichy leader Marshal Philippe Pétain in closing a provision that was meant to spare French Jews from restrictions aimed at foreign Jews only. In so doing, the document casts Pétain as instrumental in establishing the broad anti-Semitic policies that two years later facilitated the arrest and deportation of Jews in France to Nazi death camps — and shatters the long-held contention that he sought to protect France from the worst of the Occupation.
The Vichy document titled "Law Regarding the Status of Jews" was unveiled by historian and lawyer Serge Klarsfeld on Oct. 3, just days after it was donated anonymously to the Holocaust Memorial in Paris. Marked "confidential," the typed text is annotated in many places by what experts have authenticated as Pétain's own handwriting. In one critical section that defines the professions and activities Jews were to be banned from, Pétain crossed out the exception for "descendants of Jews born French or naturalized before 1860." That, Klarsfeld tells TIME, proves Pétain was responsible for toughening up repressive legislation and ensuring it would be applicable to all Jews — a role that disproves the dwindling but enduring arguments in France that Pétain actually worked to mitigate the Nazis' anti-Semitic acts as much as possible.
"Apologists have alternatively claimed Pétain did his best to limit the damage during the Occupation, or was just an old man who was manipulated as a figurehead of the Vichy state," says Klarsfeld, who is also president of the Association of Sons and Daughters of French Deportees. "This document shows Pétain not only intervened to push legislation against Jews further than proposed, but created an entire anti-Semitic outlook and framework that — in 1940 — was even harsher than what the Germans had adopted."
The unveiling of the text almost 70 years from the day it became law marks another major step in France's re-examination of its World War II history. Though the preferred analysis for decades viewed France largely as a victim — and resistant — of Nazi Occupation, with only a minority of French people becoming collaborators, efforts to challenge that version of the past began in earnest in July 1995. That was when then President Jacques Chirac broke with long-standing contentions that Vichy was an illegal aberration that did not represent France and apologized to Jews for "the criminal insanity of the occupying power [that] was assisted by the French state."
Chirac's address came during a memorial service at a site in Paris that had been used to detain Jews who had been rounded up by French police for deportation to concentration camps. Since then, France has created official administrations to oversee the return of real estate, artwork, and myriad possessions stolen from Jews during the Occupation. Last year, in an attempt to help with the process of paying damage claims to victims, France recognized the wartime state's responsibility for deporting some 77,000 Jews from 1942 to 1944. The document uncovered on Sunday takes on one of the last lingering dark spots in France's memory of its Nazi history: the question of whether World War I hero Pétain was a figurehead who had been manipulated into representing the collaborationist Vichy regime or a firm believer and active player in its anti-Semitic activities alongside the Nazis.
"This document demonstrates Pétain and Vichy were actually ahead of the Germans in terms of anti-Semitism at that point, and shows the desire of Vichy officials to prove they were at the vanguard of the emerging new order in Europe," Klarsfeld says. "These October 1940 French laws prepared the ground for the deportations of French Jews as part of the German Final Solution. When you see documents like this showing Pétain and his colleagues had already adopted a clear and harsh anti-Semitic outlook beforehand, it isn't surprising that Vichy provided the police that were needed to round up and deport French Jews when the Nazis requested them."
Pétain — who was in his mid-80s when he took the top Vichy post — was tried and sentenced to death for collaboration after the war. That sentence was commuted to life in prison — in part due to his WWI heroism, and arguments that the elderly Pétain had little real influence in actions that were depicted as the work of hardcore French fascists at the heart of the Vichy regime. Pétain died in 1951 — but only now can any doubts about his active role in persecuting France's Jews be put to rest for good.
France's effort to fully examine the dark truths of its Nazi Occupation has gotten another significant boost with the unveiling of a document that exposes the activist role of the Vichy regime in persecuting Jews. The October 1940 draft law shows the personal intervention of Vichy leader Marshal Philippe Pétain in closing a provision that was meant to spare French Jews from restrictions aimed at foreign Jews only. In so doing, the document casts Pétain as instrumental in establishing the broad anti-Semitic policies that two years later facilitated the arrest and deportation of Jews in France to Nazi death camps — and shatters the long-held contention that he sought to protect France from the worst of the Occupation.
The Vichy document titled "Law Regarding the Status of Jews" was unveiled by historian and lawyer Serge Klarsfeld on Oct. 3, just days after it was donated anonymously to the Holocaust Memorial in Paris. Marked "confidential," the typed text is annotated in many places by what experts have authenticated as Pétain's own handwriting. In one critical section that defines the professions and activities Jews were to be banned from, Pétain crossed out the exception for "descendants of Jews born French or naturalized before 1860." That, Klarsfeld tells TIME, proves Pétain was responsible for toughening up repressive legislation and ensuring it would be applicable to all Jews — a role that disproves the dwindling but enduring arguments in France that Pétain actually worked to mitigate the Nazis' anti-Semitic acts as much as possible.
"Apologists have alternatively claimed Pétain did his best to limit the damage during the Occupation, or was just an old man who was manipulated as a figurehead of the Vichy state," says Klarsfeld, who is also president of the Association of Sons and Daughters of French Deportees. "This document shows Pétain not only intervened to push legislation against Jews further than proposed, but created an entire anti-Semitic outlook and framework that — in 1940 — was even harsher than what the Germans had adopted."
The unveiling of the text almost 70 years from the day it became law marks another major step in France's re-examination of its World War II history. Though the preferred analysis for decades viewed France largely as a victim — and resistant — of Nazi Occupation, with only a minority of French people becoming collaborators, efforts to challenge that version of the past began in earnest in July 1995. That was when then President Jacques Chirac broke with long-standing contentions that Vichy was an illegal aberration that did not represent France and apologized to Jews for "the criminal insanity of the occupying power [that] was assisted by the French state."
Chirac's address came during a memorial service at a site in Paris that had been used to detain Jews who had been rounded up by French police for deportation to concentration camps. Since then, France has created official administrations to oversee the return of real estate, artwork, and myriad possessions stolen from Jews during the Occupation. Last year, in an attempt to help with the process of paying damage claims to victims, France recognized the wartime state's responsibility for deporting some 77,000 Jews from 1942 to 1944. The document uncovered on Sunday takes on one of the last lingering dark spots in France's memory of its Nazi history: the question of whether World War I hero Pétain was a figurehead who had been manipulated into representing the collaborationist Vichy regime or a firm believer and active player in its anti-Semitic activities alongside the Nazis.
"This document demonstrates Pétain and Vichy were actually ahead of the Germans in terms of anti-Semitism at that point, and shows the desire of Vichy officials to prove they were at the vanguard of the emerging new order in Europe," Klarsfeld says. "These October 1940 French laws prepared the ground for the deportations of French Jews as part of the German Final Solution. When you see documents like this showing Pétain and his colleagues had already adopted a clear and harsh anti-Semitic outlook beforehand, it isn't surprising that Vichy provided the police that were needed to round up and deport French Jews when the Nazis requested them."
Pétain — who was in his mid-80s when he took the top Vichy post — was tried and sentenced to death for collaboration after the war. That sentence was commuted to life in prison — in part due to his WWI heroism, and arguments that the elderly Pétain had little real influence in actions that were depicted as the work of hardcore French fascists at the heart of the Vichy regime. Pétain died in 1951 — but only now can any doubts about his active role in persecuting France's Jews be put to rest for good.
This is a very interesting and important find. First I have seen of it. It will certainly turn the perception of Petain's and Vichy's role in WW2 on it's head. Thanks for posting this. Don't know how I missed it. -- Al
Sans Culotte
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It would seem that every nation has had/does have a past that it would prefer to gloss over or not to touch at all. France has been no exception. Over 30 years ago, a French filmmaker produced a documentary showing that no more than 10% of the French population was actively/actually involved in the Resistance. That film brought a storm of protest around that man's ears. The truth hurts, including the fact that the Nazis did not bring anti-semitism with them to France in 1940. Witness also the Charlemagne Division & so much more. Petain's contributions to the ultimate Allied victory in WWI cannot excuse his later actions. I didn't know that there was some discussion of burying him with the war dead at Verdun. Just think, though; how would Americans feel about having Arnold interred with the war dead at Saratoga?
France does have a history of anti-semitism that was especially strong in the military, witness the Dreyfus Affair that tore France apart at the turn of the 19th-20th century. There is also a constant struggle within France regarding "The Resistance" in WW2. Post war legend has it almost all Frenchmen were involved when in fact it was the opposite. The outstanding documentary "The Sorrow and the Pity" addressed exactly that. Some history is indeed hard to swallow. -- Al