Matte Durbar Series - A Critique (1 Viewer)

[cantinetozzo]

As Lancer said glossy retains most of its appeal to new collectors (as me!i started in 2008!)..i fell in love with the Redcoats range and i think it's a perfect range for glossy style figures, i started obviously with matt figures because they were more "realistic" , they resembled the dioramas figures i always tried at my best to paint and realize..but after a while looking at those beautiful and colorful figures on WB catalogue i was hooked and now i share my purchases between the 2 styles..i don't see them one against the other but obviously as in the case of the Durbar you can't mix them.I admire the choice of givin' us collectors the Durbar in Matte, let's wait, i think it's premature to judge after 3 or 4 releases...

 

[The Lt.]

I'm going to keep this short and sweet. First off there is no doubt in my mind that WBritain's goal to attract new collectors at the expense of their faithful an others as you commented PDJ is way out of line and off base. Secondly if they were aiming at K&C as their initial goal they've more than achieved it not only in the sculpting, painting, packaging and service but also providing a much wider selection of products that appeals to those who've collected their products in the past and will continue to in the future. As state I'm keeping this short and sweet.

 

[aujj65]

Interesting debate, from my perspective as a painter of gloss figures but as a collector of only matt style figures, I find the comments regarding vibrant colours a bit strange. For example, paint two figures in matt red, give one a coat of gloss varnish and you have two very different shades of the same colour. In my humble opinion one can’t compare gloss with matt they are two different beasts entirely and have their own (equally important) merits.

I hope that Britains do well in their new range, which should be most impressive as the collection grows.

Jeff

 

[vandilay]

Great collection Pat ,
I can see the appeal of both the matte and gloss here.
When Britains released both matte and Gloss in the zulu line I thought if I began collecting them [which I did ] it would be gloss all the way for me .

In the end I chose matte not because I prefer It but because the range of poses and sets was far more extensive . I guess how in depth Britains go
could decide matte Durbars fate, Because as you have pointed out gloss has many options and companys to choose from .
cheers Rob

 

[Russell]

Hi Pat,
Thank you for the photos. They’re just beautiful. And the presentation in the oak cabinet(s) is elegant and simple. Wonderful.

And Damian, I really liked your dioramas. My attention was drawn to the colourful buildings.

Mostly I collect glossy figures. For at least a decade it seemed liked Britains was lost, but now with Richard Walker and the rest of the team, they seem to be doing well. I’m judging by the redcoat/bluecoat series. I don’t pay much attention to their matte series and will let others weigh in as to the merits of these figures.

And Scott, you wrote,

if you look at real life the Durbar pics are black & white or coloured drawings. I have no doubt that it was not a spectacular colourful affair, but I doubt it was as colourful as the glossies depict (meaning people don't have shiny skin and clothes etc...aren't glossy. (I can't believe I said that as I love my glossy ceremonial Britains .

I can’t believe that you said it either. You should have finished the statement off with something like this

Cheers

 

[MapleLeaf]

Hi guys
I'm a big time collector of Durbar
Beau Geste is the best with all their elephants
What i like the most is their elephants are from
Real happening proven with old pictures of the time
I see it in old pictures i buy it.
As far as matte Durbar is concerned i think KC missed the boat
Since KC has the best figures by far in matte finish
I preordered the britain Durbar matte finish
Anxious to see it and the outcome with future releases
I will keep buying Beau Geste because of wide selections
Although they have not produce any bullock yet
Glossy or Matte??
My ceremonials are glossy and my actions figures are matte.
This is what i think about it UR CHOICE

 

[PJDeluhery]

This discussion has drifted into a discussion of glossy vs. matte finish. There's no right or wrong here, it's whatever you like and want to spend your money on. I collect both and like both.

I think Pat's basic comment (WAY back! ) was that for those of us who have a large collection of the current Durbar offerings, we wish Britains had chose to offer these figures in gloss. It's clear Britains went all out trying to make this series a winner, and Alan's figures are beautiful.

As I said, I will probably buy some of these figures and shoot them with a gloss coat so I can display them with my existing sets.

Whether this line is ultimately successful for Britains as a business decision remains a question to be decided by those who choose to buy or not buy. For those of you that are planning to start this series, welcome aboard. Gloss or matte, this is one of the most impressive and visually exciting displays you will ever have in your cabinets!

 

[glossman]

*
Dear Pat,

Thank you very much for your time and effort in preparing your 4 part critique on the Matte Durbar Series.

I have enjoyed reading your thorough critique, which has been written in your characteristic inimitable style.

While having clearly stated your personal preference, you have spared no effort to present as balanced a discussion as possible of the subject.

You were mindful to add “caveats” as and when you deemed necessary.

As I do not have a Delhi Durbar collection of my own, I feel unqualified to make specific comments about the Delhi Durbar either gloss or matte.

However, I do agree with you that a gloss paint finish would certainly do better to reflect the style and character of the colourful Delhi Durbar Ceremonial Procession.

Kind Regards, Raymond.

 

[PolarBear]

Beneath the Durbar's Color & Gloss

As a cultural historian and collector of toy soldiers from the Raj, I am always on the lookout for materials actually published at the time of the events I am studying. For the insert I wrote for the W. Britain Delhi Durbar range, I used Mortimer Menpes's comments about the color, splendor and spectacle of the event. With all the nostalgia that collectors assign to glossy figures of the British Empire and in particular the Delhi Durbar, I was interested in what contemporary comments about it could be found among the Indian population. I recently located statements by Indians related to the 1903 Durbar that provide another view of the event. They are taken from the 1905 book below which was a polemic against the Empire by British author John George Godard. Unfortunately, I have not been able to locate any biographical material on Godard to put his work in context. The book was based upon essays published in the Westmisnter Review in 1904 a year after the 1903 Durbar. Note the comment by Mr. Ghose was made before the Indian National Congress the body that was opposed to British rule. It is interesting that in 1899 economist Throrstein Veblen had published his book The Theory of the Leisure Class which coined the term "conspicuous consumption" which was meant to describe "the social attitudes and values that condone the misuse of wealth...and the variety of ways in which the resources of modern society are wasted"--a thesis reflected in the comments made here by the 2 Indians.

 

[jazzeum]

Pat should be complimented for his usually thoughtful approach to a subject and I agree with Skeeterbuck's comments (other than the realism aspect).

I don't collect the Durbar line but I enjoy reading collectors' thoughts about it. If I did collect Durbar, I would probably favor the glossy versions.

 

[glossman]

*
There are some great pictures of the Rewa State Carriage which appeared in another thread "for all you dehli durbar fans" by redhugh.

Here in the link for easy reference:

http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12932

Kind Regards, Raymond.

 

[VIRIATO]

i must add that even i think that for ceremonial events there is nothing better than GLOSS style,but for combats there is nothing better than the MATT style and since the manufacturers most of them all make combats so there using MATT.
I am sure WBritain will have a few fifures in gloss style just because of a tradition but this will be more of a sake for tradition than their big hit sale.
This battle is already lost....

This time I fully disagree with you on this Ales, with all due respect. I believe there will always be room for both gloss and matte. I believe Britains Redcoats and Bluecoats, Little Legion or Imperial are very successful and viable products, if you want to put it that way. I also believe Beau Geste is another case of beauty, well, not in motion, but on a shelf. Also notice that there are more traditional and more realistic glossy figures for the collector to choose from.
I like both matte and gloss really, gloss especially for those colorful uniforms and matte for more realistic dioramas (beware, a matte figure that is supposed to be realistic is sometimes a dangerous test for the manufacturer...). As for Durbar, my collection is now «complete» and it is glossy, so I won't get into the matte Durbar. But let me say that these new matte Durbar figures look excellent and carry the same quality of recent Britains matte figures. They might be a good option for any collector, new or not, but obviously not on the same shelf as the glossy figures. I for one am happy to have WWI (and hopefully FIW) both in gloss and matte, but then again on different shelves. It all comes down to the quality of the figures, never say never!

Regards,
Paulo

 

[redhugh]

What captivated me about the Durbar glossy display in sydney was the colourfulness of it all. An astonishing array of bright colours, an effect, which to me, seems very well suited to the gloss finish. Not sure if a matt finish could radiate the different colours and capture the hustle and bustle in such a dazzling fashion. Difficult to say without seeing a large display.

 

[skeeterbuck]

Pat should be complimented for his usually thoughtful approach to a subject and I agree with Skeeterbuck's comments (other than the realism aspect).

Brad, I realize that I may have gone "slightly" overboard on the realism aspect of my post, but the tone of matte paint is muted compared to gloss. Let's face it... they don't call it "olive drab" for nothing.

Chuck

 

[glossman]

*
If the gloss/matte issue is taken out of the equation for a moment, there are 2 further issues to be considered.

(1) cost and affordability

The cost of a Delhi Durbar set ranges from $400 to $700.

This may not be a "go" for many collectors.

I am not sure how many elephant sets are needed for a respectible Delhi Durbar diorama.

?? at least 2 or more elephants plus the entourage and buildings.

(2) individual preference

Collecting the Delhi Durbar range is not for everyone.

I think one has to acquire a "taste" for it.

Best Wishes to All, Raymond.

 

[damian]

*
If the gloss/matte issue is taken out of the equation for a moment, there are 2 further issues to be considered.

(1) cost and affordability

The cost of a Delhi Durbar set ranges from $400 to $700.

This may not be a "go" for many collectors.

I am not sure how many elephant sets are needed for a respectible Delhi Durbar diorama.

?? at least 2 or more elephants plus the entourage and buildings.

(2) individual preference

Collecting the Delhi Durbar range is not for everyone.i

I think one has to acquire a "taste" for it.

Best Wishes to All, Raymond.

Fine wine, Cuban cigars, Russian caviar and Single Malt whisky are also acquired tates Raymond.
They are in the same league as the Delhi Durbar.
As are Trophy toy soldiers of course

 

[PJDeluhery]

No question that collecting this series is well into "nosebleed" counrty. One reason why, IMHO, Britains might have been a bit hasty leaving the current gloss collectors unsatisfied.

The cost of Britains' first elephant is $450.00 at Treefrog, which is a good $200.00 cheaper than Beau Geste. Of course we need to see the two side by side to judge the quality, but it IS encouraging for new collectors. At that price, I might get out the old airbrush and gloss up a new Britains elephant along with some of those tasty foot figures. I'm in love with that "Late Afternoon" figure and the Kitchener mounted piece. ****IT! I think I'm being converted here!

 

[thebritfarmer]

The $450 price is a stinger. Hopefully they will rethink the Elephant and perhaps cast it in resin. That would make it more affordable to the average collector.

 

[Gazza]

Pat

This is a fantastic post - the best one I have seen on this forum.

Well articulated and thought through.

I do not collect this range - the era does not do it for me but I found your post highly informative

Many thanks

Gazza

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

I will say that I have really enjoyed this discussion. But I dont totally agree with all of it which is fine with me since we all have opinions on various things. Pat is very thorough and his posts are always well thought out and well written but I dont 100% agree and have taken a photo of my Lord Kitchener Figure in the company of two glossy Marlborough Generals and a pair of WBritians Hollowcast Irish Guards at Present Arms. Therefore I will let the photo say what it says to you all. As for me I will mix the matte figures into my displays because of space issues and the want to maximize the show.

Enjoy

Dave