Matte Durbar Series - A Critique (2 Viewers)

[plasmapulse]

It is no future for gloss style.Gloss is the past and better you all realize the better will be for you.
Keep your gloss style collection,enjoy at them but this will become a rare style collections one day.Now the matte style is winning over glossy style.
Remmember(even it will be hard for you old collectors to understand,but the truth is that)-GLOSSY STYLE SOON WILL BE THE PAST!

As for the range, I think it would be too obscure for WB to risk a range both in matte and gloss. And since there is already a lot of gloss from other manufacturers they might have chosen correctly in trying a matte style.
But I think it would be better in gloss. With traditional sculpting of course. But how would that stand out from the Beau Geste stuff? WB went for innovation.

 

[jazzeum]

As a collector who collects mostly matte, glossy is definitely not a thing of the past. There are some things that just look right in gloss. I have a small collection of camels from different makers and they wouldn't look right in matte.

Call this nostalgia if you will but gloss reminds us of an earlier time. As I have collected more, the more I have come to appreciate and like gloss and just wish manufacturers would make more of it.

 

[PJDeluhery]

Hi Guys,

I will say that I have really enjoyed this discussion. But I dont totally agree with all of it which is fine with me since we all have opinions on various things. Pat is very thorough and his posts are always well thought out and well written but I dont 100% agree and have taken a photo of my Lord Kitchener Figure in the company of two glossy Marlborough Generals and a pair of WBritians Hollowcast Irish Guards at Present Arms. Therefore I will let the photo say what it says to you all. As for me I will mix the matte figures into my displays because of space issues and the want to maximize the show.

Enjoy

Dave

You know, you are absolutely correct!! Again. I'm re-thinking my postion on this. If I end up buying one of those elephants, I'm blaming YOU!

 

[wadepat]

Hi Guys,

I will say that I have really enjoyed this discussion. But I dont totally agree with all of it which is fine with me since we all have opinions on various things. Pat is very thorough and his posts are always well thought out and well written but I dont 100% agree and have taken a photo of my Lord Kitchener Figure in the company of two glossy Marlborough Generals and a pair of WBritians Hollowcast Irish Guards at Present Arms. Therefore I will let the photo say what it says to you all. As for me I will mix the matte figures into my displays because of space issues and the want to maximize the show.

Enjoy

Dave

Hi Dave,

I am glad you decided to post your thoughts on this thread. As you know, I highly prize your opinion in all things related to the Delhi Durbar.

As I viewed your photograph, I realized I had been remiss in critiquing the new Durbar line without examining the scale of the figures. In your post you compared a mounted figure (Lord Kitchener) to dismounted figures. To more accurately compare the Lord Kitchener figure to the earlier Britains figures and the Marlborough figures, I think it is necessary to compare mounted figures to mounted figures. To that end, I have removed appropriate figures from my curio and photographed them next to the Kitchener figure.

As you are keenly aware, the earlier Britains figures and the Marlborough figures are sufficiently close in style, painting, and scale to allow them to be nicely blended with each other into a single display. Assuming for a moment that the matte finish and the glossy finish are compatible for display purposes, will the new figures blend well with existing figures in terms of scale?

Attached below are photos of the new Kitchener figure and Britains glossy Durbar set #40178, The Officer of the Viceroy’s Bodyguard. As you can see, there is a noticeable size difference between the two figures. The Kitchener figure looms larger than the earlier Britains mounted figure. The base of the newer figure is slightly thicker, but not enough to account for the differences in the total height and/or the general size of the two figures. The size differences are also easily viewed when comparing the horses.

Disregarding the differences in the finishes of the figures, there is clearly a visible difference between the scales of the two figures. These differences further complicate the effective integration of the two lines of figures into a single display. At this point, I must assume an equal difference exists between the dismounted figures of both lines. From my perspective, and from what I have observed, my conclusion that the two lines are not easily compatible appears to be further strengthened.

In my next post, I will present some photos comparing the mounted Kitchener figure to a mounted Marlborough Durbar figure.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[wadepat]

Gentle Friends,

In my last post, I compared the new matte Lord Kitchener figure to an existing Britains glossy Durbar figure by utilizing the images contained in photographs of the two figures. My interpretation of the evidence presented in the photographs strongly suggests visible scale differences between the earlier Britains glossy Durbar series and the new matte Durbar series.

I now wish to compare the Lord Kitchener figure to an existing Marlborough Durbar figure. Below, you should find several photos of the mounted Lord Kitchener figure placed in close proximity to a mounted Marlborough Durbar figure. To facilitate this comparison, I utilized a mounted figure from Marlborough set #D39, Bera Ekkan, Gwalior.

Once again, the Britains figure appears to be considerably larger in size and scale than the Marlborough figure. Granted, the Marlborough figure has no base, but the absence of bases on Marlborough mounted figures only accentuate the differences between the existing Marlborough figures and the new Britains figures. These differences produce considerable barriers to the integration of the two lines of figures into a single display. I cannot say it is impossible to integrate the matte Britains Durbar figures with existing glossy figures, but the considerable challenges in size and scale must somehow be addressed if an integrated display is to be effective.

Further, the size and scale differences among the various manufacturers seem to negate any potential value of transforming the matte figures into glossy ones.

The obvious method for overcoming the challenges I have mentioned is to place the matte figures into a display that is separate from all glossy Durbar figures. Of course, available display space will be necessary to accommodate this strategy.

The individual who only wants to collect the matte figures will have no problem developing a nice display. Hopefully, Britains will ultimately produce a sufficient variety of Durbar sets and figures from which to construct a large and beautiful matte display.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[damian]

I think the key is Pat's last statement.
Hopefully WB will commit itself to developing this range.
That means at least one elephant a year.

 

[PJDeluhery]

That's REALLY a shame! ..... And I really like that Kitchener figure!!

I'll probably return to "Plan A" and springle a few gloss-coated figures among my current display.

 

[PolarBear]

I have 2 cabinets for my collections. One contains my matte figures and the other gloss. Thus, for example, my WB matte AZW and WB glossy AZW are nowhere near each other and I would not even consider using them together since they are different in scale and finish. I love both collections equally and no one who sees my collection seems to mind this arrangement. Therefore, I encourage those of you who wish to collect matte Durbar as well as glossy not to be scared off from doing so. Besides wouldn't we all like additional cabinet space

 

[Aleš]

I have 2 cabinets for my collections. One contains my matte figures and the other gloss. Thus, for example, my WB matte AZW and WB glossy AZW are nowhere near each other and I would not even consider using them together since they are different in scale and finish. I love both collections equally and no one who sees my collection seems to mind this arrangement. Therefore, I encourage those of you who wish to collect matte Durbar as well as glossy not to be scared off from doing so. Besides wouldn't we all like additional cabinet space

i am sure you spend much more time in MATT cabinet

 

[PolarBear]

i am sure you spend much more time in MATT cabinet

It all depends on my current passion and what story I am telling with my camera.

 

[glossman]

Gentle Friends,

In my last post, I compared the new matte Lord Kitchener figure to an existing Britains glossy Durbar figure by utilizing the images contained in photographs of the two figures. My interpretation of the evidence presented in the photographs strongly suggests visible scale differences between the earlier Britains glossy Durbar series and the new matte Durbar series.

I now wish to compare the Lord Kitchener figure to an existing Marlborough Durbar figure. Below, you should find several photos of the mounted Lord Kitchener figure placed in close proximity to a mounted Marlborough Durbar figure. To facilitate this comparison, I utilized a mounted figure from Marlborough set #D39, Bera Ekkan, Gwalior.

Once again, the Britains figure appears to be considerably larger in size and scale than the Marlborough figure. Granted, the Marlborough figure has no base, but the absence of bases on Marlborough mounted figures only accentuate the differences between the existing Marlborough figures and the new Britains figures. These differences produce considerable barriers to the integration of the two lines of figures into a single display. I cannot say it is impossible to integrate the matte Britains Durbar figures with existing glossy figures, but the considerable challenges in size and scale must somehow be addressed if an integrated display is to be effective.

Further, the size and scale differences among the various manufacturers seem to negate any potential value of transforming the matte figures into glossy ones.

The obvious method for overcoming the challenges I have mentioned is to place the matte figures into a display that is separate from all glossy Durbar figures. Of course, available display space will be necessary to accommodate this strategy.

The individual who only wants to collect the matte figures will have no problem developing a nice display. Hopefully, Britains will ultimately produce a sufficient variety of Durbar sets and figures from which to construct a large and beautiful matte display.

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

Dear Pat,

I have taken the liberty of highlighting in bold the last 3 paragraphs to underscore the importance of your remarks.

It appears reasonable to conclude that the matte Delhi Durbar series should be collected and displayed separately.

Thank you very much for initiating a very interesting discussion.

Kind Regards, Raymond.

 

[PJDeluhery]

Personally, I'm going for the 1/6 mile line in my next public display. Between my buddy and I, with a little help from Britains and Beau Geste, me might just make it!!! I'll put the mattes at the end of the line. The public does not know the difference and won't care. In my cabinets - separate shelves.

I am now at peace.

 

[damian]

Here is a link to my good friend Auguste's Delhi Durbar display.
http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/album.php?albumid=231
He does not comment much on the forum but he has a magnificent collection.

 

[wadepat]

Here is a link to my good friend Auguste's Delhi Durbar display.
http://www.treefrogtreasures.com/forum/album.php?albumid=231
He does not comment much on the forum but he has a magnificent collection.

Hi Damain,

Thanks for the link! Auguste has a beautiful Durbar collection that is worthy of much envy. Do you know if Auguste will be collecting the new matte series?

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

 

[damian]

Hi Damain,

Thanks for the link! Auguste has a beautiful Durbar collection that is worthy of much envy. Do you know if Auguste will be collecting the new matte series?

Warmest personal regards,

Pat

If I know him he just might be.

 

[PJDeluhery]

Spectacular display!! I love the back drop buildings - great atmosphere. Did he make those himself??

 

[WBritain]

Having been hit with the Military History Weekend show as this post was made I had not had a chance to read it all until now. It is superb. Pat has done an excellent job weighing the pros and cons in the most fair way I have ever seen -- and when he gets subjective he says so - fair enough! The comments and back and forth from everyone, while you do not all agree, is civil, gracious and informative. Thank you.

Producing a new Durbar range in matte was not a decision we took lightly or with minimal thought. While there were many things to weigh, the clincher to do it in matte had to do with the fact that some of the original elephants would have do be done again - how could a new Durbar be complete without Curzon and Connaught? Too much time and breaks had elapsed since the first series was released for there to be a realistic chance of new collectors ever completing the series or for the bulk of existing collectors to have hung on (granted most of those on this forum have hung on - but a majority of others have not). So, these key figures could be done again in gloss - which tends to upset collectors with the originals or they could be done in a new style and finish. Again, due to the time lapse, it was felt most of the sales would have to come from new collectors and matte would be the way to go as it did not interfere with the first series.

After thirty five years in this hobby I have learned only one thing for certain - it is very very subjective and no matter what decision I make, some will be thrilled and others will be disappointed. But the thing I liked the most about this post is that you all seemed to understand that conundrum and not say one was "right" and the other "wrong". Thanks again.

 

[The Military Workshop]

Hi guys, just read this thread for the first time.
I don't collect or sell Durbar but certainly like the look of it.
Just wanted to say this has to be one of the best threads/discussions on the forum. Great photos from Pat and very civilised comments from all. May be the Durbar fans are a more gentlemanly bunch !
Regards
Brett

 

[thebritfarmer]

Well I thought I would weigh in now that I own this elephant and a couple of the figures.

The figures are extremely well sculpted as we have come to expect over the last couple of years. Even though the elephant is matte I still feel that it is "flashy" with the rich colours and gold accents. It is extremely heavy and am sure would break a toe if dropped My only gripe would be the cost, due to it being cast in metal. This elephant was a gift so the price was not a concern, but future elephants may not be joining my cabinet because of price. I personally (and a few others I have chatted with) would prefer them in resin to help lower the cost. In these tough economic times every little bit helps.

I also want to add that Pat mentioned about Beau Geste Jaipur elephant being different. From what I can ascertain Jaipur had a few elephants at the Durbar including a kettle drummer. I am adding a picture of the Marlborough Jaipur Elephant and the Britains one to compare.

If you can get past the price, I would tell you to pick this figure up it is BEAUTIFUL !!!! and a welcome addition and nice to see something not based around a war.

 

[aujj65]

Well I thought I would weigh in now that I own this elephant and a couple of the figures.

The figures are extremely well sculpted as we have come to expect over the last couple of years. Even though the elephant is matte I still feel that it is "flashy" with the rich colours and gold accents. It is extremely heavy and am sure would break a toe if dropped My only gripe would be the cost, due to it being cast in metal. This elephant was a gift so the price was not a concern, but future elephants may not be joining my cabinet because of price. I personally (and a few others I have chatted with) would prefer them in resin to help lower the cost. In these tough economic times every little bit helps.

I also want to add that Pat mentioned about Beau Geste Jaipur elephant being different. From what I can ascertain Jaipur had a few elephants at the Durbar including a kettle drummer. I am adding a picture of the Marlborough Jaipur Elephant and the Britains one to compare.

If you can get past the price, I would tell you to pick this figure up it is BEAUTIFUL !!!! and a welcome addition and nice to see something not based around a war.

I just happened to be in the Guards Toy Soldier Centre in London on Monday and saw this in the flesh so to speak. The painting was of the first order and if I had had the cash with me I think I would have brought it home

Never mind

Jeff