Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ (2 Viewers)

[Rob]

Over Easter I caught this film again. Now some of you may know Gibson is not my favourite film maker but this is not about that. I wonder how realistic the terrible torture Jesus went through in this film is to the truth. There can be no doubt what a horrible lingering death Crucifixion was, but I read somewhere that the Scourging scene that seemed to go on for ever was not based on real hard evidence but some of it left to Gibsons imagination. The wounds inflicted in this horrible scene surely would have caused death wouldn't they, he pretty much had all his skin removed and surely would have died from blood loss or shock??.

I read that as he grew up Gibson thought the classic paintings of the Passion showed it almost too serene or as if Jesus was bored, and he wanted to bring the Horror of it home to cinema goers.

Its just as I watched in Horror as Jesus was flogged to pieces I wondered how near this was to what really happened in those days and what was artistic licence?

Rob

 

[lancer]

Caught it over Easter, again, also. Just brutal and I have flinched each time I have seen it. Don't understand how any man could survive such a beating to start with and then still walk, being beaten further and carrying a load. Gibson got his message across. -- Al

 

[Martin Tabony]

I wish I could remember what it was called, but a few years ago, I think on chanel 4, there was a documentary where a doctors explained exactle what would have happened to the human body. Personaly I found the description of the crown of thorns to be the worst. Whereas flying killed some nerves the crown would embed into the root of the nerve so that the slightest movement even a breaze would cause unimaginable pain!

Martin

 

[Peter Reuss]

From what I've read, many people didn't survive the scourging. It was brutal stuff.

 

[Rob]

From what I've read, many people didn't survive the scourging. It was brutal stuff.

I know this will sound odd, but maybe in some tiny way that was a blessing in that those who died during it didn't then have to endure a Crucifixion afterwards, the Romans were truly cruel when they wanted to be .

Rob

 

[Scott]

Some of Gibson's visions in the film are supposed to have come from this source rather than the Gospels.

http://www.jesus-passion.com/DOLOROUS_PASSION_OF_OUR_LORD_JESUS_CHRIST.htm

I liked that the Roman's Pilum was "correct."

 

[damian]

There are reports from the Royal Navy of sailors surviving up to 500 ashes with the cat of nine. Now as far as I can see the cat of nine had little beads in it not hooks. But it did break the skin. In SA we have a whip called the sjambok which used to be made out of rhino hide. It is a heavy whip and does not break the skin but causes extensive bruising and this releases myoglobin which can block up the kidneys leading to renal failure and death unless treated. I have often wondered how sailors and soldiers could survive a session with the Cat of up to 300 lashes. I presume some must have died but maybe it did not cause bruising but rather flaying which could then be treated with salt or some other anti septic.

 

[Napoleon1er]

Can't....fathom....hatred...for....Mel......{sm0}{sm0}:rolleyes2:

Sorry, but back to the point, sometimes a flogging was a death sentence. However, they probably wanted to preserve a last spark of life, so the victim could bear the pain of crucification. Also, he's Jesus, and if you believe in all that goes along with that, than who's to say it wasn't due to that.
-Sandor:salute::

 

[Rob]

Can't....fathom....hatred...for....Mel......{sm0}{sm0}:rolleyes2:

Sorry, but back to the point, sometimes a flogging was a death sentence. However, they probably wanted to preserve a last spark of life, so the victim could bear the pain of crucification. Also, he's Jesus, and if you believe in all that goes along with that, than who's to say it wasn't due to that.
-Sandor:salute::

Where did anyone say they hate Mel Gibson?^&confuse

Rob

 

[trooper]

There are reports from the Royal Navy of sailors surviving up to 500 ashes with the cat of nine. Now as far as I can see the cat of nine had little beads in it not hooks. But it did break the skin. In SA we have a whip called the sjambok which used to be made out of rhino hide. It is a heavy whip and does not break the skin but causes extensive bruising and this releases myoglobin which can block up the kidneys leading to renal failure and death unless treated. I have often wondered how sailors and soldiers could survive a session with the Cat of up to 300 lashes. I presume some must have died but maybe it did not cause bruising but rather flaying which could then be treated with salt or some other anti septic.

I believe the practice in the British Army, and for all I know possibly the Royal Navy as well, was for the prisoner to have a wide leather belt placed to protect the kidneys. I have also read that the regimental surgeon would examine the prisoner at intervals to see if he was capable of bearing further punishment. if he wasn't he would be cut down and allowed to recover until he was fit enough to receive the rest of his sentence.[Trooper/I]

 

[Rob]

Excellent post Damian, from what I've read deaths did occur from flogging but they were not common. The most dreaded flogging was a ' flogging round the fleet' in which the prisoner was flogged in front of every ship in the fleet in a long boat. It's also suggested that flogging was generally accepted by sailors as needed for discipline on board, it was only when when it was used to excess that it caused problems on board. There is also evidence that it was not always effective as some sailors were flogged several times during their service. On board HMS victory there is a set of floor shackles where the prisoner would often be confined before his flogging,

Rob

There are reports from the Royal Navy of sailors surviving up to 500 ashes with the cat of nine. Now as far as I can see the cat of nine had little beads in it not hooks. But it did break the skin. In SA we have a whip called the sjambok which used to be made out of rhino hide. It is a heavy whip and does not break the skin but causes extensive bruising and this releases myoglobin which can block up the kidneys leading to renal failure and death unless treated. I have often wondered how sailors and soldiers could survive a session with the Cat of up to 300 lashes. I presume some must have died but maybe it did not cause bruising but rather flaying which could then be treated with salt or some other anti septic.

 

[Martin Tabony]

The BBC has just had a couple of programmes about the history of corporal and capital punishmen. "Working class children need to be flogged because they were used to the abuse from their parents" and "Upper class children need to be flogged in order to toughen them up to rule the Empire" !!! I'm glad views have changed.

Martin

 

[Scott]

Mel Gibson is a good popular film maker and a likable actor. I don't know if I'd want to go drinking with him or talk religion. You can take people like Gibson on how successfully they do their job and not as personal role models. The idea of "Holly-Weird" only comes from the fact that so much media attention is thrown on the people in the entertainment business rather than people in the insurance industry. Do you want to watch insurance industry award ceremonies on TV?

I watched POTC once at the theatre and have no desire to see it again but Apocalypto was a pretty good adventure film. Aside from all the inaccuracies, Brave Heart and The Patriot are fun to watch. I wouldn't base a term paper on history or my politics on either.

 

[Scott]

The idea that somebody bigger and stronger is doing this "for your own good" and one is supposed to be grateful for it is ONE way to keep order.

 

[Napoleon1er]

Mel Gibson is a good popular film maker and a likable actor. I don't know if I'd want to go drinking with him or talk religion. You can take people like Gibson on how successfully they do their job and not as personal role models. The idea of "Holly-Weird" only comes from the fact that so much media attention is thrown on the people in the entertainment business rather than people in the insurance industry. Do you want to watch insurance industry award ceremonies on TV?

I watched POTC once at the theatre and have no desire to see it again but Apocalypto was a pretty good adventure film. Aside from all the inaccuracies, Brave Heart and The Patriot are fun to watch. I wouldn't base a term paper on history or my politics on either.

He can be a good actor, such as in Conspiracy Theory, but I am jewish, and do not tolerate antisematism in any form. That is why I hate him, and why I think the movie we are discussing is dangerous.

But back to the point, I do think they would have spared his life so they could crucify him.

-Sandor

 

[Rob]

He can be a good actor, such as in Conspiracy Theory, but I am jewish, and do not tolerate antisematism in any form. That is why I hate him, and why I think the movie we are discussing is dangerous.

But back to the point, I do think they would have spared his life so they could crucify him.

-Sandor

Have to agree there, that sort of hatred is just what we fought against. He also makes totally innacurate films, and whilst some may say its ' just a film' I'm afraid its not good enough. Some people are so thick they believe everything they see and then walk out of the cinema spouting that view.

Rob

 

[Napoleon1er]

Have to agree there, that sort of hatred is just what we fought against. He also makes totally innacurate films, and whilst some may say its ' just a film' I'm afraid its not good enough. So people are so thick they believe everything they see and then walk out of the cinema spouting that view.

Rob

Exactly. That's why I like the Sharpe movie more than the Patriot.

 

[breslau]

I'm watching Gibson in the film The Bounty as I type. Along with Gallipolli, I think they were both reasonably accurate portrayals of events. I think his film Passion of the Christ is a selective interpretation of the Gospels and I've deliberately only seen it once.

Any person, especially one with influence, who displays any form of intolerance or discrimination must be questioned. The moment people believe others are different for any reason - you create the basis for violence, persecution and indifference. And this is simply unacceptable.

 

[Rob]

I'm watching Gibson in the film The Bounty as I type. Along with Gallipolli, I think they were both reasonably accurate portrayals of events. I think his film Passion of the Christ is a selective interpretation of the Gospels and I've deliberately only seen it once.

Any person, especially one with influence, who displays any form of intolerance or discrimination must be questioned. The moment people believe others are different for any reason - you create the basis for violence, persecution and indifference. And this is simply unacceptable.

Absolutely spot on mate, you have nailed it. Now let me give you an account of exactly what happened to me in London some years back.

After taking a tour in the museum I was approached by an Australian couple, the women spoke first to say she loved the museum and was enjoying the trip. The very first words out of the blokes mouth were;

'Yeah I've always hated you Brits'
Ignoring the urge to reply ' then go back home you ignorant racist twat' I said;

'Whys that'?

' Cos of that last scene in Gallipoli'

I said ' you know that was not true, it was made up by Gibson and co to give the film a more Anti Brit feel'

'What' ?

' Its true,look it up, it was an Australian officer that gave that order'

'Na,can't be, they wouldn't put it in a film if it wasn't true'

And there we have it mate, straight from the Horses mouth ' THEY WOULDN'T PUT IT IN A FILM IF IT WASN'T TRUE'. So this moron had harboured hatred of my country for years because of what he saw in a film that intentionally skewed History to create such a reaction. Sorry mte but the film is crap, how many other are driven to hatred by what they see in such a film?. Its not good enough.

Look at the row Titanic caused, here they maligned a real life character who was in fact a hero that night, so much so they had to go to his Scottish village and apologize and make a donation.

We need to speak up against this sort of thing, we've had Xenophobic remarks about my country's forces on here this week, we don't need them in films too!. Sorry for rant but this gets under my skin

All the best

Rob

 

[lancer]

Anyone who believes what they are seeing on film are probably the same people who believe everything printed in newspapers and books and what they see on TV. Some people are just like that. Of course Gibson has an agenda, what filmmaker doesn't? I like Gibson's films for what they are, just entertainment. If people want to buy his message, that's their business. I also like Oliver Stone's films but I don't buy into his agenda, either. Can't afford to. -- Al