Melbourne Man Killed in Oklahoma: What in God's Name is The World Coming To? (3 Viewers)

[nysoldiers]

Unfortunately our country (USA) has a deeply rooted culture of gun ownership. AND the arms industry is so profitable that they can afford to spend billions on lobbyists and marketing campaigns.
The argument that "we should arm the good guys to deter the bad guys" has two basic problems. One, the more guns in circulation the more chance that a percentage will make their way to criminals.
Two, even the "good guys" are subject to emotional challenges, drinking and drugs, accidental shootings and just plain stupidity. Pulling a trigger is just a lot easier than using your hands or a static weapon
during an argument or when there is a "perceived threat".
We just had a case in NY where over 250 illegal firearms were intercepted by police.....they came from North and South Carolina where guns laws are considerably more lax than in NYC.
We can't ban all guns but certainly there are common sense controls that can be implemented and "enforced". There have been documentaries on how guns find their way to criminals......gun shows,
unscrupulous dealers, theft of private collections and shady arms dealers who buy direct from the makers.
I own a gun for my own reasons but I believe as a society we need to figure out how to limit the number of guns in circulation and more importantly how to reduce violence.

 

[Jack]

Bring in compulsory voting. If less than half the population votes, highly politicsed groups who are motivated to get out there and particpate in the political process can wield enormous influence. Bring on the influence of the apathetic people. Apathy can rule ... not that I care.{sm4}

 

[The Military Workshop]

Unfortunately our country (USA) has a deeply rooted culture of gun ownership. AND the arms industry is so profitable that they can afford to spend billions on lobbyists and marketing campaigns.
The argument that "we should arm the good guys to deter the bad guys" has two basic problems. One, the more guns in circulation the more chance that a percentage will make their way to criminals.
Two, even the "good guys" are subject to emotional challenges, drinking and drugs, accidental shootings and just plain stupidity. Pulling a trigger is just a lot easier than using your hands or a static weapon
during an argument or when there is a "perceived threat".
We just had a case in NY where over 250 illegal firearms were intercepted by police.....they came from North and South Carolina where guns laws are considerably more lax than in NYC.
We can't ban all guns but certainly there are common sense controls that can be implemented and "enforced". There have been documentaries on how guns find their way to criminals......gun shows,
unscrupulous dealers, theft of private collections and shady arms dealers who buy direct from the makers.
I own a gun for my own reasons but I believe as a society we need to figure out how to limit the number of guns in circulation and more importantly how to reduce violence.

Hard for non USA residents to comment on this subject as it is such an emotional one over there. I think you summed it up very well.

 

[Rob]

Hard for non USA residents to comment on this subject as it is such an emotional one over there. I think you summed it up very well.

I do agree here Brett it is difficult.But I comment on US matters because a) I love the country (visited several times now) and B) half my family live in Arizona/California and some near Phoenix that has had a lot of gun problems in recent years. There is no easy answer but what I was kind of asking in a roundabout way is would ongoing repeated events like these ever be enough to make difference to the gun debate, or is it perhaps in some subconscious way the price the US has to pay for its desire to keep them?

 

[wayne556517]

Yeah but do you need one of these at home................................^&confuse

 

[gk5717]

Lets see how much time Al Sharpton spends on this story. I'm sure he'll say they were some how provoked by this poor guy.

They were babies, children, just like Trayvon Martin. I,m sure they were wearing hoodies and eating skittles when they did this crime. Funny not one word about the victim being white and the suspects being black. No justice, no peace! Oh wait a minute I,m white that doesn,t apply to me.
Gary

 

[Rob]

One thing is for sure, if they really did this because they were bored at home, man are they going to be bored in prison!!

Rob

 

[Shiloh]

I hate that this happened but I for one am not willing to give up anymore of my rights, I have earned my right to bear arms and will never concede them willingly. Most of the gun violence in this country is actually drug related violence or mental health issues that are swept under the rug, but hey the media never let's the truth ruin a good story. So go ahead and make guns illegal, then they become just like drugs cheaper and more widespread.

 

[theBaron]

My wife wanted to know why young scum like these had guns. It's the culture of violence in this country.

Your wife isn't the only one mate,a whole country here wants to know.

Culture problem. Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, France to name a few are not significantly behind the U.S. in per capita ownership of firearms and have a fraction of the violent crime.

Personally I would not want to live in a country where the general population are disarmed and defenseless.

Thugs like these are a product of a culture in decline, and the worse it gets, the greater is the need for people to protect themselves. The rest is up to the courts.

RPZ has gotten closest to the mark. The issue is not the availability of firearms. Those thugs would have murdered that poor man with knives, or with baseball bats, or their fists. They were out to murder someone. The question no one has asked is, where are their parents? Did they even live in households with both a father and a mother? The unfortunate thing is not that we allow people to own firearms, the unfortunate thing is that the State has been waging war against the family at least since Lyndon Johnson's administration, and you can make a case that it's been going on even longer in this country. The Nazis waged the same war, as did and do Communists. These punks are immediately responsible for their actions, but at next remove, we have to ask, who raised them? Who failed to teach them that to take an innocent life is wrong?

It doesn't shake my faith in human nature, though. That's only possible if you believe that humans are by nature good. We are not. We are by nature selfish, and we have to be taught not to be, socialized, as it were.

In the meantime, these punks deserve to pay with their lives.

 

[theBaron]

I should add this question: Has anyone in our media called this murder a hate crime? By the media's own criteria, this should be, if you believe in the concept of hate crimes, as if ordinary murder isn't bad enough.

 

[damian]

I should add this question: Has anyone in our media called this murder a hate crime? By the media's own criteria, this should be, if you believe in the concept of hate crimes, as if ordinary murder isn't bad enough.

I have to agree with you about the issue of hate crime. I f I assault because I feel like it that is bad but if I do it because of who they are then that is worse. Does not make sense to me.

 

[Panzer ace]

We need to spend less time decrying the method and more time on the actuators. Furthermore, this was an act of savages not one of humans. I never had any faith in the nature of sub-human savages because they have no good in them to begin with. My faith in humans remains as strong as ever.

These 'things' that commited this crime are rodents. You do not reason with or rehabilitate rodents. You eradicate them.

 

[thebritfarmer]

Culture problem. Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, France to name a few are not significantly behind the U.S. in per capita ownership of firearms and have a fraction of the violent crime.

Personally I would not want to live in a country where the general population are disarmed and defenseless.

Thugs like these are a product of a culture in decline, and the worse it gets, the greater is the need for people to protect themselves. The rest is up to the courts.

Can't say I agree, we don't have firearms here in Canada and I can say that I honestly feel safe, even wandering around down town Toronto at night. Never had any issues any of the times I have visited.

To each his own though.

I digress though, we need to refrain from turning this into a gun control/political topic !

 

[Combat]

I've never understood why it takes so long in our judicial system to implement the death penalty. In states like California, no one is ever executed despite the fact that it is the law and juries sentence people to death. As a result, people like Richard Ramirez can live for decades at taxpayer expense before dying of natural causes. There should be an investigation of how judges and attorneys can thwart the law and the will of the people and get away with this.

 

[nysoldiers]

The moderator is correct that this can become a very emotional topic, digressing too far from toy soldier collecting.
But one more comment I hope will be included. There are over 300 million guns in circulation in the USA. I have never heard of a politician, liberal or otherwise,
say that all guns should be banned or confiscated. There is a paranoia created by gun makers and their lobbyists that any attempt for common sense gun control
is a ploy by some Orwellian entity to create a totalitarian state. Smart regulation with consistent enforcement will help reduce violent crime. Economic opportunity
and education will help to limit criminal mentality. Nothing is perfect and there will always be those who are void of morality and compassion.

 

[BLReed]

...... we don't have firearms here in Canada ......

Plenty of firearms in Canada.
"MYTH:VERY FEW PEOPLE IN CANADA OWN FIREARMS�
Exactly the opposite is true: twenty-nine per cent of Canadian homes possess an estimated total of nine million firearms. Other authorities insist that even this figure is too low, and that there is at least twenty million firearms in Canada. The UN reported that Canada ranks third among the developed western countries (behind the United States and Norway) in the civilian ownership of firearms.

There is an average of three firearms in every gun-owning Canadian household. The majority of gun-owning households in Canada own rifles and/or shotguns; on a per capita basis, Canadians own nearly as many rifles as Americans."


http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/tenmyths.html

 

[Panzer ace]

The moderator is correct that this can become a very emotional topic, digressing too far from toy soldier collecting.
But one more comment I hope will be included. There are over 300 million guns in circulation in the USA. I have never heard of a politician, liberal or otherwise,
say that all guns should be banned or confiscated. There is a paranoia created by gun makers and their lobbyists that any attempt for common sense gun control
is a ploy by some Orwellian entity to create a totalitarian state. Smart regulation with consistent enforcement will help reduce violent crime. Economic opportunity
and education will help to limit criminal mentality. Nothing is perfect and there will always be those who are void of morality and compassion.

I think the gun debate is an important one to have. As a gun owner, NRA member etc., I have many views on the subject.

With that said I do not think that is the topic at hand. A young, innocent man lost his life to three worthless savages and the fact that they were bored. It does not matter if this murder was done with a gun, a knife, a 2x 4 or an anvil. A better debate would be the fact that the three are not subject to the death penalty because of their ages. If you are old enough to commit adult crimes, you are old enough to pay an adult price.

 

[Rob]

I think the gun debate is an important one to have. As a gun owner, NRA member etc., I have many views on the subject.

With that said I do not think that is the topic at hand. A young, innocent man lost his life to three worthless savages and the fact that they were bored. It does not matter if this murder was done with a gun, a knife, a 2x 4 or an anvil. A better debate would be the fact that the three are not subject to the death penalty because of their ages. If you are old enough to commit adult crimes, you are old enough to pay an adult price.

Well said, what a refreshing attitude. There is no point burying heads in the sand and hoping things will go away because they don't. Over here we are having to face an epidemic of drink related violence on Friday and Saturday nights that stretches the Police and puts massive strain on the NHS, Also a shocking rise in obesity that also causes huge strain on the NHS.

When those innocent young children were murdered in their school in the US not long ago there was such outrage that even President Obama sounded as if he meant it. Do any of my American friends think if this were to (God forbid) happen again on the same scale it could finally push things over the edge and bring about any significant change?

Rob

 

[BLReed]

Do any Americans think if this were to happen again on the same scale it could finally push things over the edge and bring about any significant change?

No, we take it for what it is------------------individual crazies. You don't force 330,000,000 citizens to forfeit their
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS for the acts of a few. And just to refresh your memory, we got that Constitution
written by Our Founding Fathers based on 200 plus years of being ruled by a foreign Empire.

 

[Warrior]

Do any of my American friends think if this were to (God forbid) happen again on the same scale it could finally push things over the edge and bring about any significant change?

Rob

No.

As in not a chance.

And there will be more mass shootings in this country and there's nothing God can do about it.