Modern History: Australian Army gets the Thumbs Up! (1 Viewer)

Give me a break- good to see you think so highly of your own countrymen to rate them third place when tasked with the challenge of covering your six.

And for what it's worth, I'll take all bets any operators from any of those units would want you a good six grid squares from wherever their AO may be.

Have a good time at the Symposium.

Chris, I would certainly want them covering my butt, not the other way around, and I'm sure they wouldn't want me anywhere near them as all I would be doing would be getting in their way . . . :D
 
Some interesting points and good to see OzDigger back on form.
My Dad was in the British army and as a kid I remember my ambition was to be an officer in the Gurkhas. My first public speaking at school was on the Gurkhas.
Ended up joining the Royal Hong Kong Police instead.
Some may be aware that when Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997a lot of Gurkhas in the British Army were disbanded (I think from about 10,000to 3,000 in a short period of time).
Just a few days ago I saw a newspaper article that suggested that the UK may disband then totally as it did not want to have to give them rights to live in UK and ongoing costs associated with that. The UK has had some bad press over a WWII Gurkha VC winner who wanted to live in the UK and they were making it hard for him. Perhaps if he were a fanatical muslim cleric it would have been easier to get in. Four of the 11 living VC winners are Gurkhas (others are 3 Brits, 1 Kiwi, 3 Ausies).
I have always thought it would be good for the UN to have a full time Battalion of Gurkhas and officers from Commonwealth countries could rotate through it. Some of the current countries who supply troops to UN missions are not up to the job and only in it for the money it earns the country.
I recall reading a book about VC winners called The Last Eleven (ie VC's from Korean War to the Falklands). The point that stuck in my mind was that it noted that the four Aussies who were awarded them in Vietnam were members of the Training Team and that their troops in those engagements were tribespeople they had trained. The other Brit and Gurkha VC winners were in highly trained regular units such as Gurkhas and Paras (i2 in Falklands), As good as Gurkhas are I don't think a Gurkha NCO would have the impact of NCO's from many US and Commonwealth units when training and leading others.
For those interested the list of Aussie VC's is at www.anzacday.org.au/education/medals/vc/austlist.html where you can see the citations for the Vietnam VC's. Kevin Wheatley's postumous VC shows what "mateship" is.
Regards
Brett
 
Ghurkas have a reputation for fanatical bravery like the Japanese had in WWII. However a group performance, especially when supported by a religious/martial culture, doesn't often translate to effective individual performance.

All together now: "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie!" "Oi! Oi! Oi!" ;)

Hi OZ all I no about the ghurkas are that there from the Everest region in Nepal.I spent Ten days up there treking Twenty years ago and have the greatest respect for both the men and women of this region.All very friendly and helpfull.If your in there treking party they really look after you.I spoke to one Ghurka and he was standing gaurd in front of the palace in Kathmandu.I said with a smile what would you do if I hoped the fence.He said with a smile back to me that he would kill me.I beleived him .Simmo.
 
Hi OZ all I no about the ghurkas are that there from the Everest region in Nepal.I spent Ten days up there treking Twenty years ago and have the greatest respect for both the men and women of this region.All very friendly and helpfull.If your in there treking party they really look after you.I spoke to one Ghurka and he was standing gaurd in front of the palace in Kathmandu.I said with a smile what would you do if I hoped the fence.He said with a smile back to me that he would kill me.I beleived him .Simmo.

I agree Simmo and I certainly wouldn't want a Ghurka angry at me. Sad to say the Ghurka soldier will fade into history now that the British government has to pay them equitable pensions together with the increasing Chinese influence in Nepal.
 
This thread, of all threads, seems to be getting a bit unruly so I'm asking you guys to respectfully cool it, while I go back and look it over.
 
Hey General:

Thanks for your service- no doubt the Australian Army is better off for your service.
Cheers. :)
I've got nothing but love for all the units you mentioned.
I didn't actually mention any units. I just quoted from a military website what they regarded were each nations' capabilities (in brief).

As for the other nations you felt warranted a mention I have quoted you and printed below what the website side. Hope it provides interesting reading........

1.) China- sweet Jesus- they are scary
China - The confrontation with Taiwan continues, as do hostilities with neighbors, separatists, dissenters and ancient enemies. A new government in Taiwan plays down independence, and China responds with soothing words. But also China speeds up modernization of its armed forces, but in ways Westerners have a difficult time understanding. China has developed a major Cyber War capability, and has been using it for over a year. The targets of this, in Western Europe and the U.S., have figured this out, and a new crises is born. China has become major secret supplier of cheap weapons to bad guys everywhere. World class weapons are planned for the future, some 10-20 years from now.

2.) The African Union- I think if they can get some solid leadership and some first class training, they could be a major player- still decades away though, at best.
Nigeria - Military superpower in the region. Lots of quantity, some quality. Too many tribes, not enough oil money and too much corruption creates growing violence. The tribes and gangs (both criminal and political) in the oil producing region (the Niger Delta) are getting organized, and a lot more violent. The northern Muslims want more control over the federal government (and the oil money). Local rebels threaten loss of most oil revenue, which is getting the governments attention.

3.) Future Iraqi Army- same reasoning as 2 above- they need some stability there and some stable leadership but the rank and file Iraqi isn't one to scoff at. A lot of reports I have heard ring the same- quick to engage but quick to split once the lead starts to fly- discipline will square that away- still gotta give them their props- any force that can take a stand against Abrams, Bradleys and Apache HK teams have some iron in their bellies- glad that was a gut check I didn't have to make. :D
Iraq - The “surge offensive” of 2007 capitalized on years of work, and crushed the Islamic terrorists. Violence plunged by over 80 percent. More areas of the country are now at peace (as most have been since 2003.) The Sunni Arab minority has worked out peace deals with the majority Kurds and Shia Arabs. Some Sunni Arab Islamic radicals are still active, but are in decline. Some Sunni Arabs, who had fled the country, are returning, but nearly half the Sunni Arabs are already gone. The Shia militias have been defeated as well, mainly by Iraqi police and troops. Corruption and inept government continues to be a major problem

4.) South African army- strong strong force, very capable and competent.
South Africa - Regional superpower. Modern and efficient army, navy, air force and paramilitary. Only nation to voluntarily give up nukes. Much internal strife but no neighbors that are a threat. Radical elements of the Xhosa, Zulu and Boers ethnic groups threaten armed violence.

5.) The Polish Army- what they are doing in Afghanistan is amazing. Their support of the US will pay huge rewards for them in the decades to come.
Poland - End of the Cold War led to shrinking of army. Morale was low through the 1980's because of internal political strife. Joining NATO revived the military and reduced fear of Germans and Russians. Has done lots of peacekeeping, gaining valuable operating experience in the process.

6.) The IDF- mixed opinion on them discipline wise but otherwise world class.
Israel - Palestinians are trying to make some kind of peace, in order to reverse the economic disaster they brought on themselves because of their seven year terror campaign against Israel. Palestinians are tired of terrorism, even though they still support it. The Palestinian economy has collapsed, as foreign charity dried up because the people elected the Hamas (Islamic terrorists) party to power. Civil war between radical Hamas and corrupt Palestinian old guard (Fatah) has split Palestinians. Iran backed Islamic radicals (Hizbollah) in Lebanon have revived fears of civil war up there. Hizbollah threatens to drag Lebanon into another civil war, or another war with Israel. Meanwhile, Israeli economy booms as Israel continues its effective counter-terrorism campaign.

Some other members have made mention of irregular forces- Gurkhas,
Nepal - Radical communist rebels succeed in eliminating the monarchy, via an alliance with political parties. This has decreased Maoist violence, and caused a struggle for control of the government. All this has triggered uprising by other unhappy groups (more radical Maoists, hill tribes, ethnic Indians).

Afghanis, etc- all very very competent in their environments.
Afghanistan - The Taliban attempt at a comeback has been reinforced by drug gang profits and al Qaeda choosing the Pakistani border area as the location for their last stand. With all that, violence nationwide is still lower than last year. A sharp increase in Taliban activity in 2006 brought forth a sharp response from government and NATO forces. Independent minded tribes, warlords and drug gangs remain a greater threat to peace, prosperity and true national unity, than the Taliban (which is based across the border in Pakistan). The newly elected Pakistani government is reluctant to make on the pro-Taliban tribes and various Islamic terrorist organizations. That has increased the flow of gunmen from Pakistan into Afghanistan. But the violence inside Afghanistan is growing, largely because of the growth of the drug gangs, and their support for tribes (especially pro-Taliban ones) that oppose the national government.

Would think it appropriate to add the Vietnamese "Mountainyards" to that list as well.
Vietnam- There are several minor insurgent groups, but the biggest potential problems comes from the populations, unhappy over a shaky economy. No combat since 1979. Combat experienced troops have retired, leaving an ill equipped (but large) armed forces. Bad blood between China and Vietnam remain.

Cheers
Pete :)
 
I think the numerical evaluation and ranking in chart form on that website is quite interesting and potentially reasonably accurate, but IMHO the country-by country qualitative summaries (examples quoted above by The General) range from mildly informative to useless. Many of them read like some random guy's opinion on the politics of each country and say nothing about the quality of their armed forces. In particular the comments above about Iraq, Afghanistan, Nepal and Israel are political-economic mumblings that say nothing about the state of those country's militaries. The chart form expresses things much better.
 
Digger

Love you sense of humour !!!


Individual performance - how about 26 VC's !!! You ever heard of a guy called Tenzing (first guy to really climb Himilaya's)


Not exactly scarey is it .... compared to all together now: "Gurkha Ho !!!"

Hi Gazza, my tongue in cheek style sometimes gets my posts deleted or at least edited so much they don't make sense. Therefore I'll need to reiterate some earlier posts without so much humor and just the facts.

Of the 26 VC's you mention only 11 have been awarded to Nepalese/Ghurkas. The remaining 15 were awarded to British/Commonwealth officers and NCO's in charge of Nepal/Ghurka units. And it was Edmund Hilary that was First to climb Mt Everest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Hillary

"Aussie Aussie Aussie" "Oi OI Oi" is Not an Australian War Chant. It's a Australian Sporting Chant that was used initially to mock (in a nice way :) ) the British "Olly Olly Olly" Football chant and has stayed with us.

"Ghurka Ho" seems about as scary as "Tally Ho" or "Wagons Ho". But I guess it would be suitably scary when Ghurkas say it in their own language whilst waving a largish knife.

I have never heard any official Australian War Chant, but I can imagine some things Australian soldiers may shout whilst in the heat of a charge. However I won't make any suggestions as Jazzeum (Brad) would be quick to delete them ;)
 

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