Mounted Drummers and Sappers od Dragoons (1 Viewer)

[Obee]

I would think that is correct, Martin, as I have not found any pictures of line dragoon kettledrummers I would assume he took that function. Trooper

I'll scan the image of the kettle drummer tonight, if I get time, and also the other drummer, but he looks a whole lot like the mounted drummer you posted.

This has been a great investigation and made me scratch the head a bit, as well as doing some searching in my resouces.

John

 

[Martin Tabony]

I'll scan the image of the kettle drummer tonight, if I get time, and also the other drummer, but he looks a whole lot like the mounted drummer you posted.

This has been a great investigation and made me scratch the head a bit, as well as doing some searching in my resouces.

John

Yes it's one of those things that you want to know just for the sake of it. Although my interests are latter, it's always good to figure out where things start.

Martin

 

[Grognard]

Here is what I found on the Kettle drummers bunch. These prints are by Pierre Conrad. I have some of them in my collection but not this Kettle drummers set...

 

[trooper]

As a matter of interest, I was talking to George Lawn who wrote "Music in State Clothing" and apparently The Life Guards band had a mounted snair drummer. (perhaps a reminder of the Horse Grenadiers?) The snair drum was carried suspended from a baldric as for dismounted use. It was easy enough to mount with the drum suspended from the left hip (the near side) although the drummer usualy mounted and had the drum pasted up to him to save any damage to the drum. So presumeably it was the same for the mounted drummers of the Light Dragoons.

Martin

That Life Guards drummer only appeared once, on the 1939 Trooping, along with another musician with cymbals. It was the idea of the Director of Music, proved unpopular and they were never used again. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Absolutely fascinating discussion about a particularly favourite subject for me - drummers on horses.

Very interesting foursome in that pic from Grognard - which labels the botom left figure "dragon" - which is the old French term for Dragoon. Now, I keep a file on Drumhorses - and every time I can - I save pictures into it - as I have a collection of these - which is growing - so I want pictures to help paint them.

A couple of my collected pics may help throw some more light on the discussion. The first is this "Flat" - don't know who made it - but it's gorgeous, and was simply labelled "Dragoons Kettledrummer" He looks like Grognard's figure - and is clearly a Mameluke.

Another interesting figure is by the French TS firm CBG Mignot - here he is below; once again - a Mameluke - but this time he was labelled "Timbalier du 19 Rgt de Dragons de la ligne" - which if my French isn't mistaken, reads as Drummer of the 19th Regiment of Line Dragoons. Presumably he was a musician in the Band of the 19th Regiment - as a trumpeter would have been used to convey signals to the Troopers.

Hope this helps johnnybach

 

[Martin Tabony]

He doesn't have to be a mameluke Jonny, the "oriental" costume was fashionable for musicians at the time and not just with the French, the Foot Guards used eastern costumes for their base drummers. Also 1st Life Guards drummer through most of the regency.
One point on the stirrup reins, variouse contempary artists are showing the horse being lead by an Nco.

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

Fair enough Martin - I have seen similar costumes on early Foot Guard pictures and models too - I think either Tradition or ATS ( or perhaps both), do some - so perhaps "In Mameluke-like costume" would be a better description then???

By the way - this beautifully detailed picture (below), definitely has a side drum attached to a cross belt - with drumsticks too. He was labelled as a "Saxon Dragoon Drummer 1735". So I suppose it's a case of "how far back do you want to go" - and there they are.

I would love to know if there was a date for Troopers guy with a drum too. Looks Napoleonic.

 

[Martin Tabony]

As Trooper was saying The Life Guards tried the mounted snair drum so, perhaps the use is not neccessarily liniar.

Martin

 

[trooper]

The mounted drummer I showed earlier, Johnny, was French 22nd Dragoons 1809. Wth regard the use of side drums on mounted figures this appears to have died out in the British Army in about 1760 and the Life Guards example was a one off experiment. However in the American army the practice carried on virtually until the end of mounted troops. The US doesn't appear to have ever adopted kettledrums using a single bass drum instead. Also in the Canadian army, as you have found with the mounted pipe band you are getting from Yeomanry. Like you, I collect images of kettledrummers and I attach an unusual one you may not have seen. it is of "Gendarme" the drum horse of the Australian Victorian police. Apparently his rider, Constable Tassel, assembled the kit from all sorts of sources, and was somewhat eccentric in it's application, note the sporran on the breastband!! For your information Wilson Edwards produce a figure of "Gendarme" which is available in kit form, check out his website. Trooper

 

[trooper]

Just found another pcture which may be clearer. Trooper

 

[johnnybach]

Hi again Trooper - thanks for the info on the (pause to think - what-you-may-call-it) mounted Napoleonic Side-drummer!!!^&grin -

1809 fits the rest of the kit! Love the lemon Number Ones! Hmmmm.............nice...............?

As to the intrepid Constable and his trusty Gendarme! Well - you are dead right - I have never seen such a lash-up! Don't you think these guys are just a teensy-weensy bit - "One sandwich short of a pic-nic"? Too many Gymkhana's perhaps?^&confuse

Must be all of those chilled tins of Nats Stuff they imbibe, down-under. Must ask my old pall, The Reverend Wayne de la Stuka - if the stuff affects parts of the body that other beverages can't reach? I tried a warm one once - Yuk!...Nasty (Mind you - it was in NZ!). A bit like chilled Bovril - with Ice and a Slice! A sporran on the breast of a horse though - Why????

Looks like the good Constabule had shirtsleeve order for the summer though, but still kept the chest warmer for Mr.G!.....................Wierdo!..... At least he's a Cop and not strictly speaking a Soldier! I may risk an eye on taking a peek - when I've run out of other things to make up!:wink2:^

Good to hear my Yeomanary crew may be about to arrive though.... I know Brian has been ultra-busy - so can wait until all is sorted. Too nice a guy to pressure - and I have a bit of a back-log to work through.........Must tell him I'm back in France now............^&grin

Thanks again for the info on the time beater............It's good to bash!.............. good thread this .....cheers Mike..... good luck with it....johnnybach

 

[johnnybach]

Well Trooper - I did risk an eye - and took a peek. Here is the good Constabule, and his surprisingly pretty horse being fed an apple by a young lad.

Not bad - might have a go at one - when I've cleared the decks a bit from my current stash. Have posted it here if anyone else might care to have a go at one. Available as painted or casting from Wilson Edward Toy Soldiers (WETS)........from Australia............. johnnybach

 

[Obee]

OK guys, thanks for waiting, but here are the images of the 19th Dragoon Kettle Dummer and Bass Drummer.

They come from a French book I found in a discount bookstore in Paris, on the Left Bank, (No kidding) for 8 Eu... bargain !!!!

Dragons et Guides by Cdt Bucquoy and one in the series of Les Uniforms du Premier Empire published by Editions Granchier.



Note that both drummers have stirrup reins, and check the oriental uniform of the kettle drummer, while the bass drummer has the standard musician's reversed coloured jacket and white plume.

JOhn

 

[Obee]

And one more...

I forgot that I painted this guy for a colletcor here in Perth

He's Kettle Drummer, Elector of Saxony, 30 Years War 1618 -1648
and the kit was T-19 by Art Girona http://www.art-girona.com/

John

 

[Martin Tabony]

OK guys, thanks for waiting, but here are the images of the 19th Dragoon Kettle Dummer and Bass Drummer.

They come from a French book I found in a discount bookstore in Paris, on the Left Bank, (No kidding) for 8 Eu... bargain !!!!

Dragons et Guides by Cdt Bucquoy and one in the series of Les Uniforms du Premier Empire published by Editions Granchier.

View attachment 82887View attachment 82888

Note that both drummers have stirrup reins, and check the oriental uniform of the kettle drummer, while the bass drummer has the standard musician's reversed coloured jacket and white plume.

JOhn

Kettle drums and a bass drum, you'd sure as hell hear them comming!^&grin

Martin

 

[johnnybach]

Well - that's another three pics for MY kettledrummer file then - thanks Obee - and thanks too for starting off such a VERY interesting thread Mike. The replies have certainly changed my original attitude from "there ain't no such thing" - to "Well - perhaps there are in some cases!"

I currently have seven Kettle-drum horses and riders in my collection - and this thread has just made up my mind to have many more. Such interesting characters - all of them. Thanks again for such an interesting topic...............johnnybach

 

[Martin Tabony]

Slightly off topic, but interesting lone the less.

Martin