Myths about the Civil War (4 Viewers)

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Combat

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Very interesting article from the Washington Post:

One hundred fifty years after the Civil War began, we’re still fighting it — or at least fighting over its history. I’ve polled thousands of high school history teachers and spoken about the war to audiences across the country, and there is little agreement even about why the South seceded. Was it over slavery? States’ rights? Tariffs and taxes?

As the nation begins to commemorate the anniversaries of the war’s various battles — from Fort Sumter to Appomattox — let’s first dispense with some of the more prevalent myths about why it all began.

1. The South seceded over states’ rights.

Confederate states did claim the right to secede, but no state claimed to be seceding for that right. In fact, Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery.

On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “**lfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of **gitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states’ rights, birthed the Civil War.

South Carolina was **rther upset that New York no longer allowed “slavery transit.” In the past, if Charleston gentry wanted to spend August in the Hamptons, they could bring their cook along. No longer — and South Carolina’s delegates were outraged. In addition, they objected that New England states let black men vote and tolerated abolitionist societies. According to South Carolina, states should not have the right to let their citizens assemble and speak freely when what they said threatened slavery.

Other seceding states echoed South Carolina. “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world,” proclaimed Mississippi in its own secession declaration, passed Jan. 9, 1861. “Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of the commerce of the earth. . . . A blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.”

The South’s opposition to states’ rights is not surprising. Until the Civil War, Southern presidents and lawmakers had dominated the federal government. The people in power in Washington always oppose states’ rights. Doing so preserves their own.

2. Secession was about tariffs and taxes.

During the nadir of post-civil-war race relations — the terrible years after 1890 when town after town across the North became all-white “sundown towns” and state after state across the South prevented African Americans from voting — “anything but slavery” explanations of the Civil War gained traction. To this day Confederate sympathizers successfully float this false claim, along with their preferred name for the conflict: the War Between the States. At the infamous Secession Ball in South Carolina, hosted in December by the Sons of Confederate Veterans, “the main reasons for secession were portrayed as high tariffs and Northern states using Southern tax money to build their own infrastructure,” The Washington Post reported.

These explanations are flatly wrong. High tariffs had prompted the Nullification Controversy in 1831-33, when, after South Carolina demanded the right to nullify federal laws or secede in protest, President Andrew Jackson threatened force. No state joined the movement, and South Carolina backed down. Tariffs were not an issue in 1860, and Southern states said nothing about them. Why would they? Southerners had written the tariff of 1857, under which the nation was **nctioning. Its rates were lower than at any point since 1816.

3. Most white Southerners didn’t own slaves, so they wouldn’t secede for slavery.

Indeed, most white Southern families had no slaves. Less than half of white Mississippi households owned one or more slaves, for example, and that proportion was smaller still in whiter states such as Virginia and Tennessee. It is also true that, in areas with few slaves, most white Southerners did not support secession. West Virginia seceded from Virginia to stay with the Union, and Confederate troops had to occupy parts of eastern Tennessee and northern Alabama to hold them in line.

However, two ideological factors caused most Southern whites, including those who were not slave-owners, to defend slavery. First, Americans are wondrous optimists, looking to the upper class and expecting to join it someday. In 1860, many subsistence farmers aspired to become large slave-owners. So poor white Southerners supported slavery then, just as many low-income people support the extension of George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy now.

Second and more important, belief in white supremacy provided a rationale for slavery. As the French political theorist Montesquieu observed wryly in 1748: “It is impossible for us to suppose these creatures [enslaved Africans] to be men; because allowing them to be men, a suspicion would follow that we ourselves are not Christians.” Given this belief, most white Southerners — and many Northerners, too — could not envision life in black-majority states such as South Carolina and Mississippi unless blacks were in chains. Georgia Supreme Court Justice Henry Benning, trying to persuade the Virginia Legislature to leave the Union, predicted race war if slavery was not protected. “The consequence will be that our men will be all exterminated or expelled to wander as vagabonds over a hostile earth, and as for our women, their fate will be too horrible to contemplate even in fancy.” Thus, secession would maintain not only slavery but the prevailing ideology of white supremacy as well.

4. Abraham Lincoln went to war to end slavery.

Since the Civil War did end slavery, many Americans think abolition was the Union’s goal. But the North initially went to war to hold the nation together. Abolition came later.

On Aug. 22, 1862, President Lincoln wrote a letter to the New York Tribune that included the following passage: “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”

However, Lincoln’s own anti-slavery sentiment was widely known at the time. In the same letter, he went on: “I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.” A month later, Lincoln combined official duty and private wish in his preliminary Emancipation Proclamation.

White Northerners’ fear of freed slaves moving north then caused Republicans to lose the Midwest in the congressional elections of November 1862.

Gradually, as Union soldiers found help from black civilians in the South and black recruits impressed white units with their bravery, many soldiers — and those they wrote home to — became abolitionists. By 1864, when Maryland voted to end slavery, soldiers’ and sailors’ votes made the difference.

5. The South couldn’t have made it long as a slave society.

Slavery was hardly on its last legs in 1860. That year, the South produced almost 75 percent of all U.S. exports. Slaves were worth more than all the manufacturing companies and railroads in the nation. No elite class in history has ever given up such an immense interest voluntarily. Moreover, Confederates eyed territorial expansion into Mexico and Cuba. Short of war, who would have stopped them — or forced them to abandon slavery?

To claim that slavery would have ended of its own accord by the mid-20th century is impossible to disprove but difficult to accept. In 1860, slavery was growing more entrenched in the South. Unpaid labor makes for big profits, and the Southern elite was growing ever richer. Freeing slaves was becoming more and more difficult for their owners, as was the position of free blacks in the United States, North as well as South. For the foreseeable **ture, slavery looked secure. Perhaps a civil war was required to end it.

As we commemorate the sesquicentennial of that war, let us take pride this time — as we did not during the centennial — that secession on slavery’s behalf failed.
 
Hmm this is an opinion piece If I remember correctly and poorly researched.
 
Historians have been arguing about these issues, probably since the Civil War ended.

However, in what way is it poorly researched.

Regarding the first point, on the question of the reasons for secession, if you need to look **rther, look at the March 12, 1861 speech of Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy, and the content of the Confederate constitution.

Stephens said in part: "The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution of African slavery as it exists amongst us, and the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split."

He then goes on to say "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its corner- stone rests upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first in the history of the world based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. . . . Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation. With us, all of the white race, however high or low, rich or poor, are equal in the eye of the law. Not so with the negro. Subordination is his place. He, by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system . . . . I have been asked, what of the **ture? It has been apprehended by some that we would have arrayed against us the civilized world. I care not who or how many they may be against us, when we stand upon the eternal principles of truth, if we are true to ourselves and the principles for which we contend, we must triumph."
 
I am not disputing or even getting into the arguments set forth here, not worth it for my own blood pressure. However, if you know the Washington Post, you know that they are a lot like the NY Times as are all newspapers - agenda and one sided journalism.

Again, I am not expressing my opinion one way or the other, I am merely stating that I think we should all step back and realize that nearly all journalism today is op ed because controversial opinions SELL newspapers, NOT facts. Same goes for television.

News doesn't sell anymore, if all sides ever decided to get along and work together, then the Cable News industry would collapse!! (along with most major news media and newspapers!)

Just my 2 cents.

TD
 
Look at the articles of succession for the State of TN and some of the others. Some of the states didn't succeed until their militia's were ordered to Federal service illegally. Everybody wants to generalize a very complex situation, and never discuss the actual causes of the war, but if you look at the material it was clearly not fought over slavery alone. I guarantee you the answers are much more shallow and self serving than the noble cause of ending slavery.
 
I would agree with you Gary that wasn't the only factor. However, people seem to focus on so called federal "illegality" but little attention is paid to some of the methods used by Southern states in adopting secession. Two illustrative expamples would be the shenanigans used in Georgia and Alabama, not to mention that in both states once ordinaces of secession were adopted, those who had dissented were expected to support the winning side. In fact, in Georgia to dissent was a crime, with a penalty punishable by death. Some of these events are treated in Stephanie McCurry's Confederate Reckoning.
 
Anyone who was alive, fought in, and/or has first hand recollection of the events leading up to secession and/or the Civil War, please feel free to continue this debate as to who was really right, and what the real reasons were for the war.

For everyone else, please, just let it go. It amazes me how people whose great grandparents weren't born yet get so up in arms about the "real" reasons for the war, and who held the moral and legal highground.

Here's the long and the short of it: It makes no difference who was right or wrong. The Union won, the Confederates lost. Period. The winners write the history, and in this case, the Union forces were the winners.

You want to discuss the battles, the great leaders of men, the heroism and incredible fortitude by the brave Americans who fought on both sides, I'm all for it. But please, spare me the "our ancestors were in the right, your ancestors were the bad guys" speeches. My ancestors were in Italy and Scotland at the time, so I'm pretty sure that at least as these arguments relate to my family, both sides are incorrect.
 
Again, I am not expressing my opinion one way or the other, I am merely stating that I think we should all step back and realize that nearly all journalism today is op ed because controversial opinions SELL newspapers, NOT facts. Same goes for television.


TD

I tend to agree with this general point, but not as it applies to this situation. After all this is not another Lindsay Lohan story, but one on the Civil War. You rarely see any historical discussion (opinion or otherwise) in a major media outlet including the "History" Channel (aka Bigfoot TV). If anything, this goes against the populist themed stories that make up most of the news. If there is an agenda here its the current trend to downplay the role of slavery in the civil war and to look for morally defensible grounds that avoid characterizing some of our ancestors as unpleasant racists. There is a great deal of admiration for the military exploits of Lee, Jackson and others. Even a certain nobleness of Southern spirit. And it's difficult to reconcile that with the notion that they were fighting for indefensible or even evil motives. Some people will never accept that contradiction.

The other common line of defense that I often read is that it's unfair or revisionist PC to apply "modern" standards about race to those that lived in the 19th Century. Ignoring the fact that most nations had outlawed the institution of slavery long before our Civil War. And that our founding fathers even recognized the inconsistencies of their efforts to obtain "freedom" from England while upholding the institution of slavery even earlier. Certainly opinion about the equality of races differed substantially from modern standards, but there was no lack of enlightenment at the time on the evils of slavery which extend beyond mere racial prejudice. Even George Washington struggled with that dilemma many decades before the Civil War.
 
I don't recall anyone saying that a person was in the right or another in the wrong. It was the beginning of an interesting discussion.

A great deal has been written about the causes of the civil war; this is the subject of debate among historians and has been for a long time. In fact there is a new book that was just reviewed in Sunday's New York Times called "America Aflame" looking at it from a religious, evangelical point of view and taking the side that the war was avoidable, which is one side of the argument, the other being that the war wasn't avoidable, the so called "irrepressible" school.

The Civil War is big enough that you can look at it from many angles. If you want to study battles, that's your prerogative. If you want to look at the causes (which I find more interesting), that's also your prerogative.

However, to say that we shouldn't examine the causes or the socio-economic-religious background of the Civil War or how the United States existed in 1860 because we weren't alive in 1860 is just plain foolish.
 
........However, to say that we shouldn't examine the causes or the socio-economic-religious background of the Civil War or how the United States existed in 1860 because we weren't alive in 1860 is just plain foolish.

I beg to differ sir but based on Wraith's pictures from London, I would rather discuss the topic of British barmaids as I think all of my ancestors, southern and northern, dead or alive would as well!! ^&grin%^V^&grin
 
I beg to differ sir but based on Wraith's pictures from London, I would rather discuss the topic of British barmaids as I think all of my ancestors, southern and northern, dead or alive would as well!! ^&grin%^V^&grin

I, for one, and all for aprticipating in that debate, particularly with more illustrations . . . ^&grin
 
Doug,
I hear ya, but I still think the controversy of the slavery issues will sell a lot of newspapers around the 150th anniversary!

Louis is basically right on this subject. The causes are what they are and will be interpreted differently by each person. I have my own interpretation based on my own ancestors involvement on both sides. My family can be traced to the 1730s in MD and VA, far before the ACW and there is never any family anecdote, record or paper that attributes any slave ownership. I feel confident that they were not slave owners. NOW, can I tell you 100% what there thoughts were on the subject, I have no idea and neither does anyone else!

TD
 
I must say that the debates about the causes of the war and who may or may not be right or wrong are **ndamentaly important rather than talking of the bravery and fortituide of the combatants. For me just beginning the journey of understanding this war saying x was a great fighter or Y was a great fighter is unimportant.

The reasons why the war started the ideology et al is vitally important to understanding why a country enters into something as severe and destructive as a civil war.

I hope and many points to date were interesting that we don't let it go. For once in my life a subject I am interested is not costing me thousands of pounds.
Mitch

Anyone who was alive, fought in, and/or has first hand recollection of the events leading up to secession and/or the Civil War, please feel free to continue this debate as to who was really right, and what the real reasons were for the war.

For everyone else, please, just let it go. It amazes me how people whose great grandparents weren't born yet get so up in arms about the "real" reasons for the war, and who held the moral and legal highground.

Here's the long and the short of it: It makes no difference who was right or wrong. The Union won, the Confederates lost. Period. The winners write the history, and in this case, the Union forces were the winners.

You want to discuss the battles, the great leaders of men, the heroism and incredible fortitude by the brave Americans who fought on both sides, I'm all for it. But please, spare me the "our ancestors were in the right, your ancestors were the bad guys" speeches. My ancestors were in Italy and Scotland at the time, so I'm pretty sure that at least as these arguments relate to my family, both sides are incorrect.
 
I agree with Louis it's been hashed and rehashed by better scholars than me. Can't believe I took the bait again. Duhhhh and how on earth did I miss pictures of Barmaids? Link please.^&grin
 
I am not disputing or even getting into the arguments set forth here, not worth it for my own blood pressure. However, if you know the Washington Post, you know that they are a lot like the NY Times as are all newspapers - agenda and one sided journalism.

Again, I am not expressing my opinion one way or the other, I am merely stating that I think we should all step back and realize that nearly all journalism today is op ed because controversial opinions SELL newspapers, NOT facts. Same goes for television.

News doesn't sell anymore, if all sides ever decided to get along and work together, then the Cable News industry would collapse!! (along with most major news media and newspapers!)

Just my 2 cents.

TD

First, let me say, I agree with this perspective 100%.

Secondly, for those who wish to cast dispersion, blame and guilt upon my dead relatives, please go right ahead. My ancestors are long gone and far beyond anyone's reach. Myself, I am "guilty" only of whatever crimes I have personally committed. Thus far the legal records show ^&grin, I have committed none.

Thirdly, the present and **ture seems more worthy of discussion, as they can be observed and changed. The south, with its milder climate, more business friendly tax and labor structure and cheaper cost of living, is attracting people and businesses from all over the country and world, especially from the north. Thus, we are, in effect, winning the **ture. Ill take that anyday.
 
First, let me say, I agree with this perspective 100%.

Secondly, for those who wish to cast dispersion, blame and guilt upon my dead relatives, please go right ahead. My ancestors are long gone and far beyond anyone's reach. Myself, I am "guilty" only of whatever crimes I have personally committed. Thus far the legal records show ^&grin, I have committed none.

Thirdly, the present and **ture seems more worthy of discussion, as they can be observed and changed. The south, with its milder climate, more business friendly tax and labor structure and cheaper cost of living, is attracting people and businesses from all over the country and world, especially from the north. Thus, we are, in effect, winning the **ture. Ill take that anyday.

On your third point, you are correct! Since that is what I do for a living re; locating companies, I can tell you for certain that 95% of my projects in the last 4 years have been in the South and mid South. I can tell you that 0% of projects went to New York, Connecticut, Maine, Rhode Island, Vermont, New Hampshire. Right now, the hot States are Texas, Tennessee, Virginia, Carolinas (Both), Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Florida is making a comeback as well as Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma! Sorry to my California friends, but that is the State where the most Companies are moving out! The times they are a changing on relocation front.

TD
 
I find the attitude that since we know the results, so let's not spend any more time rehashing a historical topic somewhat disturbing. Yes, we know the south seceded and the north couldn't accept that and we had a destructive war but why did it come to that. For example, England freed its slaves without massive bloodletting. Similarly, we know the Nazis came to power but the whys are fascinating. The reason something happens is important to know and it can spawn a lot of discussion with possible lessons for the **ture. As mentioned earlier, there is still debate when it comes to the Civil War between the avoidable and unavoidable theories of the ACW, with a new book just coming out (America Aflame) taking the former approach. The writer is a former student of Professor Avery Craven who followed the avoidable approach generally.

As far as what a person's ancestors did, it's a shame they left no written diaries Tom but a lot of history now looks not so much at the macro but the micro, at what the common people were thinking and the positions they were taking. For example, Duke University has a database containing letters and diaries of ordinary people during the War as so many other organizations such as the Georgia Department of Archives and History.
 
I find the attitude that since we know the results, so let's not spend any more time rehashing a historical topic somewhat disturbing. Yes, we know the south seceded and the north couldn't accept that and we had a destructive war but why did it come to that. For example, England freed its slaves without massive bloodletting. Similarly, we know the Nazis came to power but the whys are fascinating. The reason something happens is important to know and it can spawn a lot of discussion with possible lessons for the **ture. As mentioned earlier, there is still debate when it comes to the Civil War between the avoidable and unavoidable theories of the ACW, with a new book just coming out (America Aflame) taking the former approach. The writer is a former student of Professor Avery Craven who followed the avoidable approach generally.

As far as what a person's ancestors did, it's a shame they left no written diaries Tom but a lot of history now looks not so much at the macro but the micro, at what the common people were thinking and the positions they were taking. For example, Duke University has a database containing letters and diaries of ordinary people during the War as so many other organizations such as the Georgia Department of Archives and History.

Brad,
not that I don't want to debate!! It is just a hard topic to debate among friends as everyone has very staunch positions. That said, I do very much care about the causes and I do look at that in most studies especially World War 2. The Civil War just gets way to far into culture and living and the slavery topic is such a sore one, I tend to steer clear.

TD
 
Tom,

I try to not debate whether this cause was the cause or who is right or is wrong but just like to dig deeper into the causes. As I've drilled deeper I've found out that New York City wanted to secede from the North because of their connection to the cotton industry and that in certain parts of the South the unionist sentiment was pretty strong and wouldn't die, even after the South seceded, or that there were a lot of reluctant confederates -- formely cooperationists. Even Stephens was a Unionist until he had no choice. I didn't know that until earlier this year.

The only thing I don't like is when people say we know who won so let's move on. Intellectual curiosity is what it's all about!
 
The only thing I don't like is when people say we know who won so let's move on. Intellectual curiosity is what it's all about!

Brad-
I agree 100%. There are sensitivities and strong feeling on both sides - that's why it's still interesting, but that shouldn't preclude a rational discussion even about uncomfortable topics like slavery. Taken to its extreme the same arguments could be made about other historical events like the Holocaust.
 
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