NAP0537-NAP0545 Russian Pavlovski Grenadiers (1 Viewer)

[FirstLegion]

We are pleased to present the Russian Pavlovski Grenadiers of the Napoleonic Wars. The Pavlovksi Grenadiers were a unique regiment in the Russian army because following the uniform changes from the period of the early Empire to later Empire, the Pavlovski regiment was allowed to keep their mitre hats as recognition for their distinguished performance at the Battle of Friedland in 1807. Their performance in battle during the 1812 campaign was such that they were made part of the Russian Imperial Guard in 1813, a unique honor bestowed upon them as a line Grenadier regiment. As such, the Pavlovski Grenadier regiment was truly one of the elite regiments of the Napoleonic Russian Army. We have presented them here aggressively advancing and with 17 different figures, a wonderful diorama based display can be formed of the unit engaged at Borodino, Krasne or many other battles of the period. These highly detailed and wonderfully sculpted and painted figures make a fantastic addition to our Napoleon's Europe product range.

NAP0537 Russian Pavlovksi Grenadier Officer $69.95
NAP0538 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier Standard Bearer $99.95
NAP0539 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier Standard Bearer $99.95
NAP0540 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier Drummer $79.95
NAP0541 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier NCO $69.95
NAP0542 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier Private #1 $69.95
NAP0543 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier Private #2 $69.95
NAP0544 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier Private #3 $69.95
NAP0545 Russian Pavlovski Grenadier Private #4 $69.95
Pre-Order, Ships June 9th 2017

Please note that there are 8 Additional figures, 6 privates advancing and 2 wounded, that will ship next month to complete the overall release of 17 figures.

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Continued....

 

[FirstLegion]

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Thanks for looking!

Best,

Matt
First Legion

 

[Andanna]

These were long overdue in my opinion. My French forces got so bored without an enemy, they had to resort to harassing the cantiniere.

 

[Gebhard]

A wonderful Napoleonic release, The Pavlovksi Grenadiers are my favorite Russian Napoleonic unit so I'm very happy to see them. The figures look to be a re-release of the Tauride Grenadiers but with Mitre Helms and of course different facings and such, which is not the greatest but hey it is what it is and they are Mitre helms after all. ^&grin

I'm sure guys who missed the Tauride Grenadiers will be very happy and guys like me who love the Pavlovki unit equally so.

Must haves for me no doubt, but I'd be a yes man if I didn't say I really wish they had all been totally new poses.

We still need some Russian figures firing guns.

 

[Vezzolf]

The poses are identical to the old release^&confuse....Also I do not care for the mitre style hats... new poses with the older style hats would have been more desireable and would fit in better with my previous purchases....Bring back the olther hats with some fighting poses

 

[janusz]

A wonderful Napoleonic release, The Pavlovksi Grenadiers are my favorite Russian Napoleonic unit so I'm very happy to see them. The figures look to be a re-release of the Tauride Grenadiers but with Mitre Helms and of course different facings and such, which is not the greatest but hey it is what it is and they are Mitre helms after all. ^&grin

I'm sure guys who missed the Tauride Grenadiers will be very happy and guys like me who love the Pavlovki unit equally so.

Must haves for me no doubt, but I'd be a yes man if I didn't say I really wish they had all been totally new poses.

We still need some Russian figures firing guns.

Exactly.

This release does look fantastic, but still these are old figures in very new prices. No I don't want to start yet another price discussion, for me FL figures are always worth the price (sorry, except MBS), but difficult to not see prices below, flagbearers already 100$ when last ones from Union 56th were 85$.

This release will not sell fast, unless made in small quantites. Maybe it means that we can forget about new firing line for next few years. Hope not.

 

[FirstLegion]

Exactly.

This release does look fantastic, but still these are old figures in very new prices. No I don't want to start yet another price discussion, for me FL figures are always worth the price (sorry, except MBS), but difficult to not see prices below, flagbearers already 100$ when last ones from Union 56th were 85$.

This release will not sell fast, unless made in small quantites. Maybe it means that we can forget about new firing line for next few years. Hope not.

Let me start by saying that as a collector, I do of course understand your comments. So let me offer some comments from the perspective of First Legion and why we do things sometimes the way that we do.

First, while I don't want to get sucked in to price discussions, the flags on the Union figures are not fully hand painted, these flags are. 100% hand painted flags to the quality that we do them are typically equal to the work of a full figure. So when you consider that, they're pretty inexpensive.

Next, as to reusing the sculpts, when we first sculpted these figures our intention was always to convert them to line infantry and Pavlovski Grenadiers. While I know you would all prefer totally brand new sculpts, it's simply not economical to re-sculpt an entire release for something as niche as Pavlovski Grenadiers when we don't have to, our sculpting cost is too high and the Russian Napoleonic uniform is so similar across different unit types. So we never had any intention of sculpting new figures to do Pavlovski Grenadiers, so it's either these ones or none at all. With French, as you all have seen, we have invested in new sculpts for the various releases, but those are French not Russian and in the case of the 45th Line, the uniform is different. However, take for example the Dutch Lancers we did. We have many requests to do Polish Guard Lancers. If we do, we'll use the same sculpts (with very minor conversion). So it will either be that or no Polish Lancers. Which would you prefer?

Finally, we do have some brand new figures sculpted to complement these figures that will add some firing and loading poses which we'll release later this year. Not a full release like this, but a small complementary release to add additional poses and those will be most likely done as Tauride, Pavlovski, and possibly Jaegers. But it will be the same sculpts released in 3 variants. I suppose the flip side of reusing sculpts is that it allows us to release figures like these that we wouldn't otherwise release.

Anyway, in closing these figures are light years better than the Taurides and add coverage to the Russian Army with an iconic unit. If that's not what our Napoleonic Collectors want, then perhaps we'll rethink doing a release such as this again. And, finally, our expectation on these is that they will sell slowly just like the first Tauride Grenadier did. They're Russian after all. :smile2:

And yes, we agree with you 100%, our figures are always worth the price.

Best,

Matt

 

[jazzeum]

In reviewing your post, you mentioned that the new Grenadiers are "light years better" than the Taurides. However, you indicated that the new Grenadiers are the same sculpts as the Taurides. If so, how could they be better (unless you're saying the painting has drastically improved)?

 

[FirstLegion]

In reviewing your post, you mentioned that the new Grenadiers are "light years better" than the Taurides. However, you indicated that the new Grenadiers are the same sculpts as the Taurides. If so, how could they be better (unless you're saying the painting has drastically improved)?

The painting of course, you can't the see the difference? In a different league entirely. If you think about it, the general price increase between today's prices and the prices 6 years ago when we produced the Taurides are entirely based on labor cost increases. The vastly superior painting is free. :tongue:

 

[jazzeum]

Thanks for the clarification. It's not always that easy to make comparisons between the existing figures and photos of the new ones. I'm sure there must be a little more than labor increases built into the price increases :wink2: No one begrudges you reasonable profit; at least I don't.

I like the mitre hats so will likely add a couple of those.

 

[tsukaiban]

Completed my collection of Tauride Grenadiers. Now the new Russian Pavloski Regiment will be a great addition to the growing number of toy soldiers
I have especially for the Russian Campaign ...This will be "in the bag".. Happy Collecting:smile2:

 

[janusz]

Let me start by saying that as a collector, I do of course understand your comments. So let me offer some comments from the perspective of First Legion and why we do things sometimes the way that we do.

First, while I don't want to get sucked in to price discussions, the flags on the Union figures are not fully hand painted, these flags are. 100% hand painted flags to the quality that we do them are typically equal to the work of a full figure. So when you consider that, they're pretty inexpensive.

Next, as to reusing the sculpts, when we first sculpted these figures our intention was always to convert them to line infantry and Pavlovski Grenadiers. While I know you would all prefer totally brand new sculpts, it's simply not economical to re-sculpt an entire release for something as niche as Pavlovski Grenadiers when we don't have to, our sculpting cost is too high and the Russian Napoleonic uniform is so similar across different unit types. So we never had any intention of sculpting new figures to do Pavlovski Grenadiers, so it's either these ones or none at all. With French, as you all have seen, we have invested in new sculpts for the various releases, but those are French not Russian and in the case of the 45th Line, the uniform is different. However, take for example the Dutch Lancers we did. We have many requests to do Polish Guard Lancers. If we do, we'll use the same sculpts (with very minor conversion). So it will either be that or no Polish Lancers. Which would you prefer?

Finally, we do have some brand new figures sculpted to complement these figures that will add some firing and loading poses which we'll release later this year. Not a full release like this, but a small complementary release to add additional poses and those will be most likely done as Tauride, Pavlovski, and possibly Jaegers. But it will be the same sculpts released in 3 variants. I suppose the flip side of reusing sculpts is that it allows us to release figures like these that we wouldn't otherwise release.

Anyway, in closing these figures are light years better than the Taurides and add coverage to the Russian Army with an iconic unit. If that's not what our Napoleonic Collectors want, then perhaps we'll rethink doing a release such as this again. And, finally, our expectation on these is that they will sell slowly just like the first Tauride Grenadier did. They're Russian after all. :smile2:

And yes, we agree with you 100%, our figures are always worth the price.

Best,

Matt

I appreciate you take your time to reply and share your point of view.

For prices, they cost what they cost. We just suffer seeing how fast they go up, even when existing sculpts are re-used. We all would like to pay less but FL has NO competition for the quality and that is problem for us - collecors.

You can make convertions of existing figures, it is your right. Btw to make 3 versions of the same figure when it is released is very good idea.

Personally, I have already red lancers and I don't think I gonne buy polish lancers IF they are the same figures, even although they are POLISH LANCERS for which I asked (thank you again for Polish Hussars). This would be 1600$ or more for 8 figures which I have already but in other colors. No I don't think I would go for it. Others, who maybe don't have red lancers yet, will be happy to buy them. Rather than this I really prefer new releases, even when they are russions not polish, or new range which I'm not collecting yet. This also reffers to other discussions on this forum about re-releases. You make so many new releases today, there are new figures every month now, this speed is surprising me. We have to limit shopping to only very very wanted figures. Why to re-release anything.

Looking forward for new firing/loading Tauride, I won't miss them. Thanks for info. I was affraid they will not come soon and that was in fact my main concern. Now you said it I can't wait to add them to my diorama.

Matt, you are "light years better" then other manufacturers.

To be honest, since First Legion products are available (and my pocket is deep enough) I stopped buing any other manufacturer figures. When I see posts like "what is so special about FL figures" from guys collecting other stuff I can only smile. I bought 4 pikeman&musket figures from another top manufacturer one or two year ago for a try, and can only say they are toys comparing with FL, not possible to put together on one diorama.

But you are NOT light years better then your first releases, maybe except bavarians. I have first released french infantry, russians, AWI patriots and british. AWI figures I find one of the best you made ever, including all releases done after them till today. There are no better faces and civil figures than patriots. No better marching (attacking) line than British 5th.
Colors are now more bright, contrast between shadows (practically black now) and lightnings is bigger. But it doesn't mean figures are so much better overall. Ok, better, but not light years.

Regards
Janusz

 

[FirstLegion]

I appreciate you take your time to reply and share your point of view.

For prices, they cost what they cost. We just suffer seeing how fast they go up, even when existing sculpts are re-used. We all would like to pay less but FL has NO competition for the quality and that is problem for us - collecors.

You can make convertions of existing figures, it is your right. Btw to make 3 versions of the same figure when it is released is very good idea.

Personally, I have already red lancers and I don't think I gonne buy polish lancers IF they are the same figures, even although they are POLISH LANCERS for which I asked (thank you again for Polish Hussars). This would be 1600$ or more for 8 figures which I have already but in other colors. No I don't think I would go for it. Others, who maybe don't have red lancers yet, will be happy to buy them. Rather than this I really prefer new releases, even when they are russions not polish, or new range which I'm not collecting yet. This also reffers to other discussions on this forum about re-releases. You make so many new releases today, there are new figures every month now, this speed is surprising me. We have to limit shopping to only very very wanted figures. Why to re-release anything.

Looking forward for new firing/loading Tauride, I won't miss them. Thanks for info. I was affraid they will not come soon and that was in fact my main concern. Now you said it I can't wait to add them to my diorama.

Matt, you are "light years better" then other manufacturers.

To be honest, since First Legion products are available (and my pocket is deep enough) I stopped buing any other manufacturer figures. When I see posts like "what is so special about FL figures" from guys collecting other stuff I can only smile. I bought 4 pikeman&musket figures from another top manufacturer one or two year ago for a try, and can only say they are toys comparing with FL, not possible to put together on one diorama.

But you are NOT light years better then your first releases, maybe except bavarians. I have first released french infantry, russians, AWI patriots and british. AWI figures I find one of the best you made ever, including all releases done after them till today. There are no better faces and civil figures than patriots. No better marching (attacking) line than British 5th.
Colors are now more bright, contrast between shadows (practically black now) and lightnings is bigger. But it doesn't mean figures are so much better overall. Ok, better, but not light years.

Regards
Janusz

Thanks for your thoughts and kind words about our products Janusz, it's very much appreciated. Just to clarify a quick point, if we did Polish Lancers, they wouldn't be $200 figures, they aren't as difficult as Guard Chasseurs or Winged Hussars. They would be priced more like other mounted figures.

As another follow up, it's interesting that if we release those loading firing figures in 3 variants at the same time (Jaegers, Grenadiers, Pavlovski) you are saying is a good idea. But to release 3 variants of the main release (Taurides, Pavlovski, Line Infantry) is somehow not such a good idea (or not ideal). To me this is a bit conflicting and it seems as though the market accepts it much more readily if you do them all at once then if you do them several years apart when in reality it's the exact same thing. Just an interesting observation.....

By the way, I agree with you on the British 5th Foot in march attack, they are also among my favorite figures we've done. But not because the painting is so great, it's steps down from where we are today. It's because it's a very well executed and homogenous release with some great sculpting. Our earlier figures have in many cases been well painted, some cases not so well painted, but there is more to figure making than just this. One area we've improved is better use of materials, better QC, more durable figures (rifles that don't bend, etc...). This all comes with experience. Those Taurides often had issues with muskets bending and the flags collapsing. These pavlovski's won't share those issues for example, so improvement comes in many forms resulting in overall superior figures.

Best,

Matt

 

[janusz]

Thanks for your thoughts and kind words about our products Janusz, it's very much appreciated. Just to clarify a quick point, if we did Polish Lancers, they wouldn't be $200 figures, they aren't as difficult as Guard Chasseurs or Winged Hussars. They would be priced more like other mounted figures.

As another follow up, it's interesting that if we release those loading firing figures in 3 variants at the same time (Jaegers, Grenadiers, Pavlovski) you are saying is a good idea. But to release 3 variants of the main release (Taurides, Pavlovski, Line Infantry) is somehow not such a good idea (or not ideal). To me this is a bit conflicting and it seems as though the market accepts it much more readily if you do them all at once then if you do them several years apart when in reality it's the exact same thing. Just an interesting observation.....

By the way, I agree with you on the British 5th Foot in march attack, they are also among my favorite figures we've done. But not because the painting is so great, it's steps down from where we are today. It's because it's a very well executed and homogenous release with some great sculpting. Our earlier figures have in many cases been well painted, some cases not so well painted, but there is more to figure making than just this. One area we've improved is better use of materials, better QC, more durable figures (rifles that don't bend, etc...). This all comes with experience. Those Taurides often had issues with muskets bending and the flags collapsing. These pavlovski's won't share those issues for example, so improvement comes in many forms resulting in overall superior figures.

Best,

Matt

About your observation, I said "to make 3 versions of the same figure WHEN it is released is very good idea." Don't know if my english is good enough, probably not, what I mean is releasing all 3 in the same time, so collector has choice.
Why? If I knew that red lancers became polish lancers I would wait for polish ones.
No problem, all is good, figures are fantastic, and it was very interesting to have this conversation with you Matt.

Regards
Janusz

 

[6th Wisconsin]

By the way, I agree with you on the British 5th Foot in march attack, they are also among my favorite figures we've done. But not because the painting is so great, it's steps down from where we are today. It's because it's a very well executed and homogenous release with some great sculpting. Our earlier figures have in many cases been well painted, some cases not so well painted, but there is more to figure making than just this. One area we've improved is better use of materials, better QC, more durable figures (rifles that don't bend, etc...). This all comes with experience. Those Taurides often had issues with muskets bending and the flags collapsing. These pavlovski's won't share those issues for example, so improvement comes in many forms resulting in overall superior figures.

Best,

Matt

I certainly agree about the 5th of Foot figures. I have over 20 of them. Wonderful figures!

 

[Vezzolf]

Matt, I will likely add some of these Pavlovski Russians to my existing collection..... BUT....Might we see some Russian Tauride Grenadier figures latter this year in fighting poses....I prefer the hats on the previous release and was hoping to see more figures for that regiment....is this a possibility??....Thank You Frank

 

[Gebhard]

Finally, we do have some brand new figures sculpted to complement these figures that will add some firing and loading poses which we'll release later this year. Not a full release like this, but a small complementary release to add additional poses and those will be most likely done as Tauride, Pavlovski, and possibly Jaegers. But it will be the same sculpts released in 3 variants. I suppose the flip side of reusing sculpts is that it allows us to release figures like these that we wouldn't otherwise release.
Best,

Matt

This is very good news for us all, guys who have the Tauride figures I'm sure will love to add some more traditional poses that is to say firing and loading poses myself included. Adding these same poses to cover the Pavlovski and a possible Jaegers release down the road is good all the way around.

I don't wanna sound like I'm complaining and I understand what First Legion are doing and very much appreciate it with the many variations from the norm of poses that they produce. I'll just say firing poses are ascential for Napoleonic Battles, and I'm really happy to see they will be released.

I'd really like to see them add a firing line to the now all but gone Prussian line as well.

 

[Andanna]

Totally agree with Gebs.

Just another point: FL apparently sets end pricing based on actual cost and hence there is no uniform price for individual figures, but even within ranges the prices between figures Often differs to reflect differences in cost. As I gave up being a completist some time ago, this actually helps, too.

 

[janusz]

From a few years I was waiting for new russian infantry. I think I said a few times Russian Tauride are my faworite FL figures, and I was hope to continue my Borodino project. So when I have seen new figures are same which I already had I got disappointed.

Ok for future I should think twice before posting more complains. Good to know already that polish lancers will be the same as red lancers, this helps me to avoid next disappointment and posting next complains.

Staying big fan of FL figures and waiting for new releases.

 

[Gebhard]

From a few years I was waiting for new russian infantry. I think I said a few times Russian Tauride are my faworite FL figures, and I was hope to continue my Borodino project. So when I have seen new figures are same which I already had I got disappointed.

Ok for future I should think twice before posting more complains. Good to know already that polish lancers will be the same as red lancers, this helps me to avoid next disappointment and posting next complains.

Staying big fan of FL figures and waiting for new releases.

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Please feel free to complain anytime :salute::. Its really important for felllow collectors and for First Legion to hear, and to recieve feedback from collectors. Our feedback both good and bad are what helps all of us to grow. Wonderful dio and excellent work painting those kit figures, they blend in perfectly . regards Gebhard