Need Help in I.D. Regts. (1 Viewer)

[maddadicus]

I recently got these 2 sets...The box says Under Two Flags...but I would like to know the regts. and possible wars they might have partcipated in. The chaps in red might be 91st in Zululand, but I would trust others ,more informed than I ,to make that call....Michael

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

My best guess for the second group in red Jackets is Seaforths but I am still working through the tartans pictures so I will see if I can find any others that are close I am also not sure if the Seaforths ever wore Trews. I will keep digging. The Kacki Jacketed Troops appear to be wearing a Cameronian's Tartan.

All the best

Dave

 

[The Lt.]

Michael in looking a a figure on the cover of Osprey Men-At Arms Series-57 The Zulu War the Colors of the Tartans do not appear to be the same as the one on your figures based on the colour bpates by Angus McBride....The Lt.

 

[maddadicus]

It is looking like these units were Sudan, Egypt, and beyond.......Michael

 

[ucla1967]

I don't believe the Seaforths, as a Highland Regiment, ever wore trews. I agree that they appear to be the 91st (Princess Louise's Argyllshire) Regt. from the Zulu Wars. The first set, in khaki, appear to be the Camerons from the Boer War. Both of those regiments served in those respective wars.

 

[The Lt.]

Michael check out the following from the Toy Soldiers Gallery at www.upnaway.com/~obees/soldiers go to Resources and click on to Tartans

The Lt.

 

[ucla1967]

One thing to keep in mind is that the various toy soldier manufactures have different standards as to how accurate a tartan is painted. Some so for right on while others go for close enough.

 

[kilted vampire]

The one with the sky blue is way off what ever it is. The other one kind looks like Seaforths
Gordons



Seaforths



Camerons

 

[maddadicus]

Has anyone heard of Under Two Flags, as a mfg? I believe that I know them as a soldier shop in England. Maybe, someone has a listing of what they made. Also, could the sky blue on the khaki figures, be a poorly mixed green? Michael

 

[aujj65]

Has anyone heard of Under Two Flags, as a mfg? I believe that I know them as a soldier shop in England. Maybe, someone has a listing of what they made. Also, could the sky blue on the khaki figures, be a poorly mixed green? Michael

They used to make their own ranges which included a River Boat and a Civilian range.

Not much help, sorry.

Jeff

 

[ucla1967]

Has anyone heard of Under Two Flags, as a mfg? I believe that I know them as a soldier shop in England. Maybe, someone has a listing of what they made. Also, could the sky blue on the khaki figures, be a poorly mixed green? Michael

They were mentioned in a recent article in one of the toy soldier magazines as having closed their shop in London after many years. They had retailed a number of lines (e.g., Trophy, Blenheim, etc.), but also produced they own line under the Two Flags label. I believe I misspoke when I said the khaki figures were Camerons---I meant Cameronians. The fact that the figures are marching at the trail is a big clue that they are a rifles unit, as were the Cameronians. Again, the standard of accuracy varies widely among toy soldier companies especially regarding tartans. These figures appear to me to be the output of the store owner who was not trying to be perfectly accurate or maybe did not have the necessary painting skills to do them more accurately.

 

[kilted vampire]

Has anyone heard of Under Two Flags, as a mfg? I believe that I know them as a soldier shop in England. Maybe, someone has a listing of what they made. Also, could the sky blue on the khaki figures, be a poorly mixed green? Michael

I should note that the tartan swatches are much lighter than they would normally appear. I think they are lighter so that people can see the differentiate between the setts easier.

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

I looked over the pictures again and think the ones from the Zulu War era could also be a version of the Highland Light Infantry but they could also be a Rifle unit. I will keep digging. Also I believe I heard that Under 2 Flags had closed their shop too and the webaddress appears to be a dead end now also. These sets dont seem to come up too often but I will let you know if I find any more information.

All the best

Dave

 

[ucla1967]

Hi Guys,

I looked over the pictures again and think the ones from the Zulu War era could also be a version of the Highland Light Infantry but they could also be a Rifle unit. I will keep digging. Also I believe I heard that Under 2 Flags had closed their shop too and the webaddress appears to be a dead end now also. These sets dont seem to come up too often but I will let you know if I find any more information.

All the best

Dave

I am not an expert of the Zulu War's order of battle, but I know that the 91st served in that campaign. I do not think that the HLI took part in the Zulu Wars, but they did take part in the Sudan campaigns.

 

[ucla1967]

The one with the sky blue is way off what ever it is. The other one kind looks like Seaforths
Gordons



Seaforths



Camerons

With these pictures of the tartans in mind, here are some examples of how various toy soldier manufactures actually represented them on their figures.

Photo one: From left, Trophy HLI (early version), Trophy HLI (later version), Imperial 91st Regt., and Frontline Figures HLI in matte.

Photo two: From left, Gordon Highlanders from Frontline (glossy Sudan), Blenheim, Frontline (matte Napoleonic), Trophy, and Imperial.

Photo three: From left, Seaforths from Trophy (early), Trophy (later), and Imperial. A Blenheim Cameron Highlander.

 

[maddadicus]

Dear Mike,
In your first photo, the second Trophy HLI in trews looks close enough to mine, even to the grey socks and helmet design......I am sold...what campaign would this Trophy figure represent? As to the Khaki , I have found some figures with a close enough representation to the Cameronians trews, so the verdict is still out..and I am still looking..Michael

 

[ucla1967]

Dear Mike,
In your first photo, the second Trophy HLI in trews looks close enough to mine, even to the grey socks and helmet design......I am sold...what campaign would this Trophy figure represent? As to the Khaki , I have found some figures with a close enough representation to the Cameronians trews, so the verdict is still out..and I am still looking..Michael

That would be the Sudan campaign. I don't know if you ever noticed this before, but both Trophy and Imperial painted their bases as follows: Zulu Wars---green and Sudan---brown. I am 90 per cent sure that the Khaki are the Cameronians. Many manufacturers have shown them in the at the trail position since they were also known as the Scottish Rifles

 

[The Lt.]

I am not an expert of the Zulu War's order of battle, but I know that the 91st served in that campaign. I do not think that the HLI took part in the Zulu Wars, but they did take part in the Sudan campaigns.

Mike there was a certain amount of confusion over the tartan worn by the Regiment; the kilt was reintroduced in 1864, in the Campbell of Cowdor tartan, the one shown on the cover of Osprey's Men at Arms Series of the Zulu War although when preveviouly worn had been in the Government (Black Watch) tartan. Troousers(not Trew) of the Campbell tartan were worn in South Africa during the Zulu War.......The Lt.

 

[4thhussar]

I recently got these 2 sets...The box says Under Two Flags...but I would like to know the regts. and possible wars they might have partcipated in. The chaps in red might be 91st in Zululand, but I would trust others ,more informed than I ,to make that call....Michael

The chaps in red are HLI in the Egypt c1882 and the chaps in Khaki are the Cameronians Scottish Rifles (douglas tartan and black equipment of a rifle regiment) probably the 1st battalion that was in India or the 2nd in South Africa 1899. Though the trewed regiments quickly changed to less conspicuous khaki trousers in the Boer War.

Cheers,

Sam

 

[Martin Tabony]

The one with the sky blue is way off what ever it is. The other one kind looks like Seaforths
Gordons



Seaforths



Camerons

This is a nice illustration of the regimental pattern or "sett" (tartan in a weave of cloth and nothing to do with the colour) Although this illustration shows the colours much brighter than they are in reality. A lot of the new companies are showing more detail than would realy be seen. A perfect example of this is the Black Watch (Royal Highlanders) they are the originators of the government sett, most other regiments having coloured lines over this sett. The Argyl and Sutherland Highlander wear the same sett but in much brighter colours. Therefore if you show a Black Watch with brightly coloured sett (as is becoming the norn!) You're actualy showing him as A&SH.

Martin