Need help: Paint is flaking off (3 Viewers)

[mephistomueller]

Hello everybody and welcome from Berlin,

This is my first post but a rather severe one. Rather accidentially I have noticed that the paint of some of my K&C figures starts to flake off. Please see the pictures attached, they represent just a selction. As you may notice, the figures are not from the same series and are not of the same age. I do store my figures in closed showcases, the affected figures have not stood in the same showcase. No whatsoever chemical substances have come into play. No physical damage do play a role. At the moment roughtly 8-10 figures (out of a collection of several hundred) do have those 'symptoms', even though I am extremely worried, that the flaking off will spread with time to come. Hence my question(s) are: Does anybody of you face the same problem? Do you have any suggestions, what I should do?

I would very much appreciate, if anybody could help me with this rather strange issue.

Thanks very much in advance,

Rainer

 

[paxtoysoldier]

Hello everybody and welcome from Berlin,

This is my first post but a rather severe one. Rather accidentially I have noticed that the paint of some of my K&C figures starts to flake off. Please see the pictures attached, they represent just a selction. As you may notice, the figures are not from the same series and are not of the same age. I do store my figures in closed showcases, the affected figures have not stood in the same showcase. No whatsoever chemical substances have come into play. No physical damage do play a role. At the moment roughtly 8-10 figures (out of a collection of several hundred) do have those 'symptoms', even though I am extremely worried, that the flaking off will spread with time to come. Hence my question(s) are: Does anybody of you face the same problem? Do you have any suggestions, what I should do?

I would very much appreciate, if anybody could help me with this rather strange issue.

Thanks very much in advance,

Rainer

Go to the Search option on the dark green bar on the top of the forum page and type in 'flaking' as a search. There have been several in-depth discussions by knowledgeable folks that should interest you.
Still not sure why this happens when figures have been properly primed and kept away from mold, etc. That waffen chap's back is really falling apart. Maybe he was making snow angels earlier. He will probably have to have his paint stripped and then redone the right way.
Sorry to hear about this, it is worrying. Best of luck

 

[jazzeum]

Good advice from Paxtoysoldier. In some cases as with Figarti models, it may have been a question of primer not being used. In others, there may be no easy answer.

 

[Normandy1944]

yes I have had the same problems. with the color red and RAF blue.
I don't know what causes this.


Harry

 

[Larry Allen]

Hello Ranier,
So sorry to hear that you are being bothered by paint issues. 8 to 10 seems like a high % number, for the off chance of a bad paint job at the factory.

* You said that .... "the affected figures have not stood in the same showcase" ... but are all the cabinets or showcases from the same design or manufacturer?

* Were the figures all purchased from the same dealer(s)? If so maybe contact them to see if there has been similar issues from other collectors.

* Are the cabinets in the windows by the sun or over a heat source?

* Beside the soldiers in the cabinets are there other items that you have included as part of the display. For example a diorama item or something (NOT) toy solders? I knew of someone that made items and used a urethane stain on some building he made that all but destroyed the figures.

* Are there OTHER toy solders in the cabinets that are NOT K&C. Maybe some home made or vintage figures?

Best of luck!

--- LaRRy

 

[Guy]

This seems to be a severe problem . As a precaution ,the figures that do not remain in the box but are put in a showcase, I always protect with a fine layer of matt varnish and so far it helps .
guy
PS: for the German soldier a complete stripping of the paint is the only solution I'm afraid to say

 

[Horus]

Yes, I've had a little paint flaking on a few figures, not just K&C though.

Steve

 

[cantinetozzo]

I experienced this too...but mainly with some batches of figures from the year late 2009/2010. Unfortunately i have 2 Collector's Club Figures (Wingate & Dolittle) that were affected by this problem, with some other from other ranges (Afrika Korps barechested with jerrycans, another DAK with coat, the same BBG figure with coat portrayed here and a few others). It was a problem pertaining to some years (mainly 2010) only, the figure before and after that year are perfect. I have for example in front of me the beautiful 8th Army piper from 2002 and the painting is superb, and other K&C from recent years (Israeli , Marines , Vietnam ) also perfect.

 

[Jagdpanther]

I experienced this too...but mainly with some batches of figures from the year late 2009/2010. Unfortunately i have 2 Collector's Club Figures (Wingate & Dolittle) that were affected by this problem, with some other from other ranges (Afrika Korps barechested with jerrycans, another DAK with coat, the same BBG figure with coat portrayed here and a few others). It was a problem pertaining to some years (mainly 2010) only, the figure before and after that year are perfect. I have for example in front of me the beautiful 8th Army piper from 2002 and the painting is superb, and other K&C from recent years (Israeli , Marines , Vietnam ) also perfect.

Yes the year 2010 seem to have this problem with some figure sets. I have experienced this also with a few figures. I have a few BBA sets that have had some paint flaking especially the BBA039 Stretcher Party set. I have the above German figure in greatcoat also but no where near the shape of paint flaking like that.

 

[Al Fisher]

This poses a problem if you're not a painter. My gues is that eith the base material or the primer was sub-standard. Would an overspray with a flat coat help stablize the problem?

Bosun Al

 

[theBaron]

This poses a problem if you're not a painter. My gues is that eith the base material or the primer was sub-standard. Would an overspray with a flat coat help stablize the problem?

Bosun Al

I had the same thought, Al. I'd give the figure a coat of Testor's DullCote or similar matte varnish, just to stabilize it. Or if I were painting the figure from scratch, I would apply a matte coat as a final step, again, to protect the matte finish as well as to enhance it.

Yes, it does look like there was something wrong with the finish colors or with the primer, or both.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Running-Buddy]

I have seen the same problem on other figures also not just K & C. Personally I think that the figures were painted without priming on bare metal. China cannot have the best quality control and like a lot of other companies cut corners to meet demand. A properly primed figure under normal storage should never have this problem. I will sum up the problem in my opinion (Hong Kong/China).

Enough said
Howard

 

[theBaron]

I have seen the same problem on other figures also not just K & C. Personally I think that the figures were painted without priming on bare metal. China cannot have the best quality control and like a lot of other companies cut corners to meet demand. A properly primed figure under normal storage should never have this problem. I will sum up the problem in my opinion (Hong Kong/China).

Enough said
Howard

"China" may not have good QC, but Andy does. I think that if he were aware of anything sub-par coming from his manufacturer, he'd have something to say about it.

 

[Running-Buddy]

"China" may not have good QC, but Andy does. I think that if he were aware of anything sub-par coming from his manufacturer, he'd have something to say about it.

Andy is free to reply with his opinion on this matter to the problem. I would love to hear his take on it. It is not an isolated instance but an intermittent problem for the hobby. I have primed and painted metal War game figures since the 1970's and never had a flaking issue. This is not placing blame it is addressing the issue.

Howard

 

[Warrior]

Hello Ranier,
So sorry to hear that you are being bothered by paint issues. 8 to 10 seems like a high % number, for the off chance of a bad paint job at the factory.

* You said that .... "the affected figures have not stood in the same showcase" ... but are all the cabinets or showcases from the same design or manufacturer?

* Were the figures all purchased from the same dealer(s)? If so maybe contact them to see if there has been similar issues from other collectors.

* Are the cabinets in the windows by the sun or over a heat source?

* Beside the soldiers in the cabinets are there other items that you have included as part of the display. For example a diorama item or something (NOT) toy solders? I knew of someone that made items and used a urethane stain on some building he made that all but destroyed the figures.

* Are there OTHER toy solders in the cabinets that are NOT K&C. Maybe some home made or vintage figures?

Best of luck!

--- LaRRy

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around any of this.

What difference does it make what the cabinets are made of/who the designer is?
What would other figures in the cabinet have to do with paint flaking off of these figures; are you asking if the paint is flaking off of other brands?
How would a stain applied to a building cause paint to flake off of a figure?

Paint flakes when the metal is not primed properly, the paint needs primer to bite to, if paint is applied on raw metal, eventually it will begin to flake off due to no buffer between the metal and the paint, this happened with Figarti figures and vehicles as well and has been documented in the past.

If a factory was not applying primer, no manufacturer would have any idea it was happening unless they were present to witness it.

I've seen similar situations with older glossy figures as well, not sure what the problem was there as the figures were painted with gloss enamel, no priming is done during that process, the enamel goes right over the metal near as I can tell.

If you are asking if there is anything you can do to stop it, the answer is no; aside from stripping the figure and repainting it, I don't see a solution.

 

[theBaron]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around any of this.

What difference does it make what the cabinets are made of/who the designer is?
What would other figures in the cabinet have to do with paint flaking off of these figures; are you asking if the paint is flaking off of other brands?...

Regarding the cabinets, I suspect someone was heading in the direction of lead rot caused by storing in oak cabinets (tannins outgassed by the oak), and of lead rot on one figure causing it on others (like a[corona]virus attacking toy soldiers). Those are folk beliefs among toy soldier collectors.

I agree that it was bad primer or a lack of primer, and that ultimately, apart from sealing the figure to stabilize it, the best remedy is to repaint it or have it repainted.

Prost!
Brad

 

[villagehorse]

Although not the case in point, I once heard about flaking paint on figures in a glass cabinet and of all things it turned out there was a chemical reaction with the paint simply because the cabinet was air tight. Once some air ventilation was allowed, the problem was fixed. Robin.

 

[mikemiller1955]

I think the painter had some greasy fried egg roll fingers before he went to work.........:wink2:

 

[Al Fisher]

Although not the case in point, I once heard about flaking paint on figures in a glass cabinet and of all things it turned out there was a chemical reaction with the paint simply because the cabinet was air tight. Once some air ventilation was allowed, the problem was fixed. Robin.

Well, that's partly true. The main culprit in this case is when the cabinet is made of oak . . . apparently the oak gives off vapors that affects the metal. Combine the two and you may have some real problems.


Bosun Al

 

[jazzeum]

"China" may not have good QC, but Andy does. I think that if he were aware of anything sub-par coming from his manufacturer, he'd have something to say about it.

They have unparalleled customer service in this business.