New 25 Pounder QF Field Gun (2 Viewers)

uksubs said:
Terry it a great item and your post made me lol but. Thought you would like this link
http://www.milweb.co.uk/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=66637&cat=6
Click to expand...

66637.jpg


I don't think it is a good example. The top shield is down, it has a muzzle brake, there is no crew, no caisson and it's hauled by a back-hoe. ^&grin But it is the (P) version with 1:1 scale and it fires.

Terry
 
Thanks for this mate was a really in depth analysis and I really appreciated it!:smile2: Your knowledge on this set/a real 25lber is great!

I will not get this set due to all the poor historical accuracy...

NOT will still get it obviously, but it is always great to know when a fellow forum member has in depth knowledge enough to really give a good review of a model just by pictures!^&grin

Cheers bud!

Scott
 
Hi Guys,

Thanks to my friend OBEE, that old Aussie “Artillery-Wallah” and some excellent info from him I’ve demoted two of our upcoming Royal Artillery 25LB. Gun Crew… The kneeling sergeant with the rammer is now a “Bombardier” (2 x stripes) and the officer has been “decommissioned” and will appear as a “Sergeant” in future.

All other gunners remain the same…Thanks John much appreciate the info.

Best wishes,

Andy C.​
 
I have received quite a bit of detailed info regarding this gun and it seems its not as accurate as one believes if this info is correct and, I really don't have much reason to doubt it. While it looks very nice is it really bang on accurate as we have been informed?

When I get more time I will highlight the point that have been raised and hopefully a discussion can then take place about it. Its going to be a valuable item and, if Andy is willing to rectify errors it may be absolutely worth the price it will come with.
Mitch
 
Having seen the magnificent artillery releases from FL yesterday, I hope Andy doesn't take offense if I make a suggestion. Instead of offering the 25 Pounder and the figures as one item, to defray the cost to collectors, offer them as separate items, allowing collectors the luxury of time to buy the figures and the Artillery piece.
 
If you read post #25 below, you can now see that K&C will be making the correct crew for the gun, and I really appreciate it that Andy will respond to comments from collectors and act on that where necessary.

He also told me about the boxing of the components of this gun, crew and equipment and asked me to pass that info on as well:

For your additional information the sets will be split up as follows…

1. The Quad Gun Tractor (single with driver)

2. The Limber (no figures)

3. The 25 pounder Field Gun (with detachable turning wheel and detachable seated gunner)

4. The kneeling “Bombardier” (single figure)

5. The Loader Set (two figures comprising the No.4 holding the shell and the No.5 with the cartridge case)

6. The Gun Commander (single figure sergeant)

So, as you can see we both think alike as to “breaking-up” the set to make it more affordable to be collected over a period of weeks or months.

Many thanks for the other kind comments and don’t worry there’s a “Desert” version of all of the above planned for release later in the year with a choice of either Aussie or British gun commanders (sergeants).

​

Looks like there is even more Artillery sets for this iconic gun to come now, and with this sort of breakdown of the components, it will suit collectors who want it as a travelling gun, or firing, and for different battlefields.

WELL DONE,

John
 
Sorry, as I'm doing this from the iPhone, I forgot to mention the word "please" in my last post. One should never demand.
 
Excellent John and thank you Andy. That will really help collectors.
 
Textbook customer service. K&C listening and acting on the good advice of knowledgeable collectors, kudos. The release of different components makes sense given the hefty price tag however it does allow for people who don't want the gun or truck or limber or figures to pick and choose for their collection. Choice here is a very good thing and I'm glad they're doing it this way. {bravo}}
 
A huge thank you to both John for posting and Andy for making this an add on release, this is a superb looking set and a release plan to suit all budgets . Going to get the whole lot bit by bit and a British 8th Army version too . Wonderful releases from K&C !

Rob
 
As stated earlier from information supplied the gun is a little more inaccurate as depicted by K&C. The gun seems to be on the wrong carriage. Early 25 pdr guns were on the 18pdr gun carriage with split trails and, the firing wheel was carried on top of the limber/ammo cart and not as seen here under the trail.

In 43 all 25 pdr were fitted with a double muzzle break so, the gun had increased range and, a higher velocity to be more effective against AFV's.

So, with no muzzle break it means the gun is inaccurate for the NW theatre of operations. Without a muzzle break its identified as a pre 43 gun and therefore would work for North Africa and or Pacific theatre.

I initially thought this gun was for FOB which, I think would have been more acceptable I don't know a lot about the gun but, from what has been said these are bigger errors than the ranking system. At least we all know now
Mitch
 
Guys, just loving this thread. People are chatting, raising questions and points, these are being answered and everyone is putting in there opinion. Its all being done without any BS or shouting down of anyone, its threads like this that make this forum so enjoyable.

I very much enjoyed pics guys have been putting up so thought I'd add some more from the IWM archives;

large.jpg

© IWM (E 9535)
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205203703

large.jpg

© IWM (E 15019)
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=121315

A 25-pdr field gun under camouflage netting in the Western Desert, 29 July 1942.

large.jpg


© IWM (E 9119)
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205203696
A 25-pdr field gun and 'Quad' artillery tractor in the Western Desert, 8 March 1942.
 
Apologies for spelling in above post, did it without my reading glasses, middle age beckons I'm afraid!:rolleyes2:
 
Mitch said:
As stated earlier from information supplied the gun is a little more inaccurate as depicted by K&C. The gun seems to be on the wrong carriage. Early 25 pdr guns were on the 18pdr gun carriage with split trails and, the firing wheel was carried on top of the limber/ammo cart and not as seen here under the trail.

In 43 all 25 pdr were fitted with a double muzzle break so, the gun had increased range and, a higher velocity to be more effective against AFV's.

So, with no muzzle break it means the gun is inaccurate for the NW theatre of operations. Without a muzzle break its identified as a pre 43 gun and therefore would work for North Africa and or Pacific theatre.

I initially thought this gun was for FOB which, I think would have been more acceptable I don't know a lot about the gun but, from what has been said these are bigger errors than the ranking system. At least we all know now
Mitch
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image.jpg
Are you saying the gun missing a muzzle brake from the end of the gun to make it a D-day version Mitch?
 
A great book about the 25 pounder gun being used in Normandy is "Guns of Normandy "
The Guns of Normandy and its companion books, The Guns of Victory and Where the Hell are the Guns, are the Canadian equivalent of Guy Sajer's WW II epic about the German army, The Forgotten Soldier. The Guns of Normandy is the best autobiographical account written by a Canadian soldier following WW II. The Guns of Normandy is striking in the nonchalant way it describes the deaths of friends Blackburn had made during four years in England as his regiment prepared for the invasion of France. The details are superb, right down to the food the soldiers ate. All three books are proud additions to the history of the Canadian army, but The Guns of Normandy is the best of the bunch. A must read.
 
Mitch said:
As stated earlier from information supplied the gun is a little more inaccurate as depicted by K&C. The gun seems to be on the wrong carriage. Early 25 pdr guns were on the 18pdr gun carriage with split trails and, the firing wheel was carried on top of the limber/ammo cart and not as seen here under the trail.

In 43 all 25 pdr were fitted with a double muzzle break so, the gun had increased range and, a higher velocity to be more effective against AFV's.

So, with no muzzle break it means the gun is inaccurate for the NW theatre of operations. Without a muzzle break its identified as a pre 43 gun and therefore would work for North Africa and or Pacific theatre.

I initially thought this gun was for FOB which, I think would have been more acceptable I don't know a lot about the gun but, from what has been said these are bigger errors than the ranking system. At least we all know now
Mitch
Click to expand...

Mitch,

thanks for the added infomation about the gun.

Yes, the 25 PR MkI was used in 1940, see picture below.
25prfig2.jpg

Ordnance QF 25-pr Mark 1 on carriage Mark 4P

I was under the misaprehension that the muzzle break was only added on post war guns, but it seems that they came as a result the introduction of 'Charge Super', ( previously only 3 charges available) and so someting was needed to reduce the recoil.

My research was based upon an original 1940 handbook that I 'liberated' from the Regiment's Library about 30 years ago, after we disposed of the guns.

"HANDBOOK for the ORDNANCE, Q.F. 25-PR., Mark II on CARRIAGE, 25-PR., MARK I LAND SERVICE 1940" published by HM's Stationary Office, London 1940

It contains line drawings of the gun a limber and all its individual componets.

The Aussie guns that were used in the North African campaingn, and subsequently take back to the Pacific, didn't have the muzzle break, and that was what I based my opinin on the new K&C gun.

Yes, the new gun is suitable for Noth Africa and up to mid 1943 in Europe, but if its a D-Day gun you want, I think we need to ask Andy to add the muzzle break.

With the gun crew, this is the breakdown of the numbers and jobs:

No 1 - detachment commander (a sergeant)
No 2 - operated the breech and rammed the shell
No 3 - layer (seated)
No 4 - loader
No 5 - ammunition
No 6 - ammunition, normally the 'coverer' - second in command and responsible for ammunition preparation and operating the fuze indicator and he would be close to the limber.
This gunner isn't part of the K&C crew.

Regards,

John
 
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