New Custer Movie (1 Viewer)

[pugio]

ordered a bunch of books today from BN, one of them was "Marching to Valhalla", a fictional account of Custers life. in the synopsis, it mentioned a new movie in the planning stages, based on the book, starring Brad Pitt. could be interesting......

 

[marco55]

That would be good.I have Son of the Morning Star which was a pretty good mini series on TV in the early nineties.Probably the best of all accounts on film.
Mark

 

[maddadicus]

That would be good.I have Son of the Morning Star which was a pretty good mini series on TV in the early nineties.Probably the best of all accounts on film.
Mark

Love most of the movie ( except for the Libby Custer moments ). Wish it was available in DVD..Michael

 

[GICOP]

That would be good.I have Son of the Morning Star which was a pretty good mini series on TV in the early nineties.Probably the best of all accounts on film.
Mark

Love most of the movie ( except for the Libby Custer moments ). Wish it was available in DVD..Michael

I love the movie as well. It turns up on satelite TV in the UK on a fairly regular basis, split in 2 parts. I recorded it on to DVD disc

Cheers

Martyn

 

[Spitfrnd]

Love most of the movie ( except for the Libby Custer moments ). Wish it was available in DVD..Michael

I agree that is a pity. I worry about this project with Pitt as Custer. I certainly hope they do not portray him as the great white knight.

 

[UKReb]

I agree that is a pity. I worry about this project with Pitt as Custer. I certainly hope they do not portray him as the great white knight.

Bill

I would have worried more about Angelina Jolie appearing as Libbie Custer but on reflection Libbie being also a stunning looking woman even into her twilight years my worry might be unfounded.

I too enjoyed Son of the Morning Star-however, I still think the very short BBC docu-drama of Custer at the Little Big-Horn with Toby Stephens portraying Autie has been the closest depiction of the Custer I have read about in umpteen tomes. Prepared for in-coming cos he's a Brit but still believe he captured just that right amount of Custer arrogance that Cole's characterization failed to do.

Don't know if you Custer movie fans know this but in 1974 the French director Marco Ferreri filmed a version of the Little Big Horn with the title of Touche pas la femme blanche starring Marcello Mastroianni in the Custer role. The last stand was filmed in a Paris excavation pit using Vietnameses refugees as the Sioux. I caught it at a film club in London in the mid-70's but I don't believe it ever got released in the States for very obvious reasons.

Reb

 

[Spitfrnd]

Bill

I would have worried more about Angelina Jolie appearing as Libbie Custer but on reflection Libbie being also a stunning looking woman even into her twilight years my worry might be unfounded.

I too enjoyed Son of the Morning Star-however, I still think the very short BBC docu-drama of Custer at the Little Big-Horn with Toby Stephens portraying Autie has been the closest depiction of the Custer I have read about in umpteen tomes. Prepared for in-coming cos he's a Brit but still believe he captured just that right amount of Custer arrogance that Cole's characterization failed to do.

Don't know if you Custer movie fans know this but in 1974 the French director Marco Ferreri filmed a version of the Little Big Horn with the title of Touche pas la femme blanche starring Marcello Mastroianni in the Custer role. The last stand was filmed in a Paris excavation pit using Vietnameses refugees as the Sioux. I caught it at a film club in London in the mid-70's but I don't believe it ever got released in the States for very obvious reasons.

Reb

Angelina as Libbie Custer, now that has possibilities.

I never saw that BBC version you mentioned, would that be "Custer's Last Stand" in the "Wild West" series? Was it a one hour episode?

Interestingly I have been watching Toby Smith as Prince John in the BBC Robin Hood series. I think he is rather good at arrogant so I can definitely see him as Custer.

"Don't Touch the White Women" eh, now that sounds like an "interesting" production. It seems it also featured Catherine Deneuve and French actor Alain Cuny as Sitting Bull and Ugo Tognazzi (from La Cage Aux Folles) as the Indian scout. Ugo is supposed to have stolen the show. I am not sure you can find that one on DVD.

 

[UKReb]

Angelina as Libbie Custer, now that has possibilities.

I never saw that BBC version you mentioned, would that be "Custer's Last Stand" in the "Wild West" series? Was it a one hour episode?

Interestingly I have been watching Toby Smith as Prince John in the BBC Robin Hood series. I think he is rather good at arrogant so I can definitely see him as Custer.

"Don't Touch the White Women" eh, now that sounds like an "interesting" production. It seems it also featured Catherine Deneuve and French actor Alain Cuny as Sitting Bull and Ugo Tognazzi (from La Cage Aux Folles) as the Indian scout. Ugo is supposed to have stolen the show. I am not sure you can find that one on DVD.

Toby Stephens! Bill- not Smith- but yes you are correct Custer's Last Stand was the first episode of a darn fine three part BBC series. Personally it's worth the price of the DVD just to get the Custer fight which I consider to be a very well staged re-enactment of what took place at the Greasy Grass-but you also get William Bonney and the OK Corral with the other two sessions. Well worth your bucks.

Yeah! That French Custer film got quite a standing ovation at The National Film Theater on the Southbank when I saw it. Hollywood had appeared to have finished with Custer after Little Big Man-in fact- didn't go back to his story for almost 15 years-leaving of all people- the French to have a go and although bordering on being a Marxist version of the story I did quite enjoy it at the time.
But my hair was darker then and my heart a lot lighter

Reb

 

[Spitfrnd]

Ah hoisted on my dyslexia mate since I obviously knew it was Stevens to look him up and of course he is Prince John in Robinhood. I'll see if I can find that one on the cheap.

 

[forlornhoper]

Was there not some new evidence found at the battle site,that suggested there was no last stand as told in history.The evidence suggests,that custers command were caught in the open in flight and massacred to the last man,evidence suggesting that it was every man for himself,not the gallant last stand of legend.I wonder if the new film will bend to legend or the truth.

 

[maddadicus]

Was there not some new evidence found at the battle site,that suggested there was no last stand as told in history.The evidence suggests,that custers command were caught in the open in flight and massacred to the last man,evidence suggesting that it was every man for himself,not the gallant last stand of legend.I wonder if the new film will bend to legend or the truth.

I read a book, that in touting the latest and best archeological evidence and bullet tracking, that Calhoun and Keogh's troops were about the only companies to actually form up and hold an organized line. They were overwhelmed in detail...This was determined by matching bullets to carbines assigned to particular troopers and then tracking the individual riflling prints of the spent bullets to where they were found on the battlefield. Found were a firing line of cartridges from those guns belonging to these troops. Some of these techno books are heavy and monotonous reading, but their conclusions always seem to make sense...Michael

 

[Spitfrnd]

I read a book, that in touting the latest and best archeological evidence and bullet tracking, that Calhoun and Keogh's troops were about the only companies to actually form up and hold an organized line. They were overwhelmed in detail...This was determined by matching bullets to carbines assigned to particular troopers and then tracking the individual riflling prints of the spent bullets to where they were found on the battlefield. Found were a firing line of cartridges from those guns belonging to these troops. Some of these techno books are heavy and monotonous reading, but their conclusions always seem to make sense...Michael

Is is interesting what they can do with some of the reconstruction techniques. I hadn't known about that since Custer is not a prime interest for me but what book was that if you remember or still have it?

 

[trooper]

The main problem with the very interesting ballistic and forensic findings is that although they can trace the progress of a particular weapon across the battlefield they can't tell who was using it. As we know, as soon as a soldier was killed his weapons were taken and used against his compatriots which tends to throw into question some of the particular positions mooted as being Indian or soldier.
Regarding the question of the "Last Stand" it would appear that after retiring from Medicine Tail Coulee Custer again split his command. Two troops, Calhoun and Keogh, formed a skirmish line which thin formation was quickly driven back and the remainder gathered on what is today known as Custer Hill. Here some 40 or so men made a break for it and were cut down in a gully further down the slope while the rest of the command were over run at the top.
There are still interesting points being made or discovered about this controversial action, one that is gaining some credence is that in fact there was one genuine survivor, a Sergeant Finkle or Finkel, who apparently never came forward for fear of being convicted of desertion.

 

[Spitfrnd]

The main problem with the very interesting ballistic and forensic findings is that although they can trace the progress of a particular weapon across the battlefield they can't tell who was using it. As we know, as soon as a soldier was killed his weapons were taken and used against his compatriots which tends to throw into question some of the particular positions mooted as being Indian or soldier.
Regarding the question of the "Last Stand" it would appear that after retiring from Medicine Tail Coulee Custer again split his command. Two troops, Calhoun and Keogh, formed a skirmish line which thin formation was quickly driven back and the remainder gathered on what is today known as Custer Hill. Here some 40 or so men made a break for it and were cut down in a gully further down the slope while the rest of the command were over run at the top.
There are still interesting points being made or discovered about this controversial action, one that is gaining some credence is that in fact there was one genuine survivor, a Sergeant Finkle or Finkel, who apparently never came forward for fear of being convicted of desertion.

Interesting points. I wonder though how common in the heat of battle it was to have weapons picked up and used. I can see that if your own weapon appeared defective or was empty but even then it would seem to depend on opportunity and the cost / benefit of the immediated distraction. Maybe it was more common in this case though.

An human army survivor, really? I wonder if they will put that in the movie?

 

[trooper]

Interesting points. I wonder though how common in the heat of battle it was to have weapons picked up and used. I can see that if your own weapon appeared defective or was empty but even then it would seem to depend on opportunity and the cost / benefit of the immediated distraction. Maybe it was more common in this case though.

An human army survivor, really? I wonder if they will put that in the movie?

If the weapon was just an Indian lance, for example, or a muzzle loading weapon then modern weapons would have been snatched up as soon as possible. It is evident from the small number of Colt's cartridge cases found on the battlefield that the troops were over run very rapidly, hardly having time to empty their pistols at close range, let alone reload them.
The story of Sergeant Finkle can be found in the June 2007 issue of Wild West, it makes for interesting reading.

 

[maddadicus]

The main problem with the very interesting ballistic and forensic findings is that although they can trace the progress of a particular weapon across the battlefield they can't tell who was using it. As we know, as soon as a soldier was killed his weapons were taken and used against his compatriots which tends to throw into question some of the particular positions mooted as being Indian or soldier.
Regarding the question of the "Last Stand" it would appear that after retiring from Medicine Tail Coulee Custer again split his command. Two troops, Calhoun and Keogh, formed a skirmish line which thin formation was quickly driven back and the remainder gathered on what is today known as Custer Hill. Here some 40 or so men made a break for it and were cut down in a gully further down the slope while the rest of the command were over run at the top.
There are still interesting points being made or discovered about this controversial action, one that is gaining some credence is that in fact there was one genuine survivor, a Sergeant Finkle or Finkel, who apparently never came forward for fear of being convicted of desertion.

What you have stated about the troop dispositions is what I have also found in different articles and TV specials. Makes sense, based on the prevailing battlefield evidence still being dug up..It was a fire, sometime ago on the battlefield, which exposed so much of the cartidges that have been traced. The book I read, also had info on several trooper bodies, that came to the surface. I will try to search out the book, but aside from the conclusion chapter, it was a nightmare reading exercise..Michael

 

[trooper]

I should imagine that the new film will depict the legend of Custer, as promoted by Libby, rather than a semi documentary based on the facts that have surfaced since. I believe it was in the film "The man who shot Liberty Valence" that someone said words to the effect that "when confronted with the truth and the legend, print the legend" and I fear this will apply to the new production.

 

[Spitfrnd]

I should imagine that the new film will depict the legend of Custer, as promoted by Libby, rather than a semi documentary based on the facts that have surfaced since. I believe it was in the film "The man who shot Liberty Valence" that someone said words to the effect that "when confronted with the truth and the legend, print the legend" and I fear this will apply to the new production.

Well that line or words like it were almost a mantra for the Duke in real life. I don't really have a problem with that, it will just be entertainment at best. I still enjoy "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" and the rest of the Ford trilogy so why not another myth with heroism, stoicism, bawdy humor and colorful character actors. We will see if they can do as well.

 

[maddadicus]

Well that line or words like it were almost a mantra for the Duke in real life. I don't really have a problem with that, it will just be entertainment at best. I still enjoy "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" and the rest of the Ford trilogy so why not another myth with heroism, stoicism, bawdy humor and colorful character actors. We will see if they can do as well.

...And Garry Owen a million times..song gets to me every time. Michael

 

[UKReb]

The book I read, also had info on several trooper bodies, that came to the surface. I will try to search out the book, but aside from the conclusion chapter, it was a nightmare reading exercise..Michael

I don't know whether the book you have all referred to is the same as the one on my shelves but it sure sounds it by your descriptions.

Archaeology; History; and Custer's Last Battle by Richard Fox.

If it's not then it certainly fits Michael's quote of a nightmare read. The last part of the title really sums up the author's view that it was a last fight rather than a last stand-but after plowing through it twice-it is not an easy read in fact I dont believe it to be well written-but I was left with a view that the author undertakes a lot of guessing. Fact is none of us will fully understand what really happened that day-suffice to say the average 7th Cavalry trooper was not the Ben Johnson type that Ford has weaned us on-they were mainly immigrants and not exactly the best of horse soldiers. When faced with hordes of painted screaming warriors they naturally panicked and exactly like the troopers of the Fetterman massacre hardly got any shots off from their weapons. They scattered making their way to their commanders if they could until a group of them tried to escape and ended up in the Deep Ravine and if there was a last stand it happened there not on Custer Hill.

A much better book in analysing what may have happened is "Where Custer Fell" plenty of maps and then and now photographs-plus the book begins exactly when Custer splits his command-so you are not wading through a 200 page preface of why and how they were there.

Reb