New Model Army( formerly British Commando) has Pictures! (2 Viewers)

Unfortunetly, for the first time on this forum I,m getting preturbed.
People are already callling NMA inferior, and inferring they are not up to K&C,s quality.
How do you know that for a fact! Have you seen in person the finished product, if so then you can voice your opinion.
I remember before I bought my first K&C set, I liked them from the photos, but until I opened that first box and viewed them upclose and in person, I did not know how good they were. Lets reserve any quality opinion on them only after they are released and in collecters hands.
I do agree, however, about the theme. There is no question about this, it is there for us to see. Something a little different would have been better, my opinion based on fact.
Ok, I,m going to go kick the dog and smack the wife and I,ll be better.
Happy collecting, Gary
 
Gary,

Without saying further on this issue, I don't think saying you're going to kick your dog or beat your wife is something we'd like to see here. Could you please revise those comments.
 
Eazy said:
May as well add another UK view.

I don't think these new figures are too bad, for me the only problem with them is that they seem a bit "ho Hum". There is nothing about them that stands out.

They certainly aren't better than K&C but then who really expected them to be? It's their first release after all.

The problem seems to be that they are covering an area already covered so well by K&C. As Monty said it's kind of like buying an inferior product that doesn't manage to be as good as the top of the range model.

The SdKfz 231 seemed ok but looked more like an inferior version of K&C than the figures did. There's nothing there to persuade me to buy it instead of the K&C upgunned SdKfz 234/3 Puma i intend to buy next.

On the subject of the company name i definiitely prefer British Commando to New Model Army. It's more dynamic but i understand that British Commando may not play as well with a worldwide audience.

Still i think it would have been much better if NMA had opened their range with the British paratroopers thay had mentioned. That is a subject that is crying out for attention in this scale. Especially now that Andy has (Really unfortunately) postponed the K&C Pegasus Bridge series.
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Hi,
I also preferred the name «British Commando». And the British Paras are a must for me too. The only ones I remember from K&C are from the long ago retired Arnhem series, and today's K&C is a different ball game concerning figures, at least for my taste. Back to the paras, that's why I bought them from Conte instead, quite nice figures.

H. collecting,
Paulo
 
Guys

Again not for upsetting any forum members!! and again we are talking about 'toy soldiers' i would like to clear a point that i mentioned earlier.

If and IF you are going to create a NEW toy soldier company then to take the ideas of the ones that work and develop it i bow and applaud. As i mentioned earlier Figarti i tip my hat to as they have produced what i see as a range that does not cross any already well trod areas!!

yes the new figures NMA figures may complement some collectors K&C range but the BIG WAR covered a lot of areas that have not been touched or been visited for a long time. Also as a collector with a lot of friends in the hobby why not look at planes, RAF, sea etc. This coul dbe vehicals as well as figures etc.

And i agreee with Eazy for a UK company (for which i think i am right) why not start with a British range of Paras or commandos. Imagine the marketing that could have been done around BRITISH COMMANDO with a phase of BRITISH COMMANDO figures!!! missed out there! :rolleyes:

Also the only other hesitation i have IF i was to invest in NMA by means of purchasing! where do they come from and where are they going? do they have a plan is there any development needs? :confused:

K&C, Britains, Conti, Hounour Bound and Figarti ( i know i have missed a few!) all have a history, websites, distriputer network, and retail outlets.
Does TREEFROG have an ETA of goods for sale yet?:confused:

Sorry that people are getting 'perturbed' but guys this what a forum is a meeting or a chance to get yor veiw across RIGHT or WRONG i do not beleive my veiw point would stop anybody buying NMA. Nor do i think any comments would make people buy it.

Buy what you like not what you feel you should buy.

I however feel that NMA have come out too close to the mark! especially when the subject matter is so vast, this i say as a K&C collector but would be disapointed if they came out looking like Figarti, conti, britains etc. I work in the Carpaint and carpainting industry and if i did not use my imagination i would be out of business!;) Competition is great!!!!!

my fingers hurt now!! great thread though
 
By the way to qoute an album not so long ago out from New Model Army GREAT EXPECTATIONS - the singles collection!!:D
 
Louis Badolato said:
Just for the record Steven, K&C did a polystone Panther in three paint Schemes: original, winter and ambush.
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Louis,
Thanks for the clarification. The early K&C price lists that I have do not list the Panther, probably because it was already sold out.:)
 
Brad, it was a joke, I wasn,t really going to kick my dog.
Gary
 
Steven Chong said:
Louis,
Thanks for the clarification. The early K&C price lists that I have do not list the Panther, probably because it was already sold out.:)
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Also, rumor has it that Andy is doing one for this summer's D Day issue so comparing them should be interesting.
 
The question is not whether the NMA vehicle is inferior in quality or workmanship since only a visual analysis could answer that question. The question is whether this is a copy. As Steven has pointed out there are similarities. The similarities are too close to be accidental. For example, the back of WS 32 has rope (or wire) and so does the NMA model. There are many other examples of Sd. Kfzs 231s that could be made and the similarities are just too close too justify a conclusion of other than a copy.

The question that could be asked and has been alluded to by nmrocks (Ray) is how different could they look because you’re dealing with a vehicle and just how many ways are there to make this particular vehicle. Theoretically, they should look alike. Steven, tongue in cheek no doubt, stated that since King and Country has already make a Jagdpanther or a Sherman, no one else should make one. The Sherman is a case in point. If you look at a King and Country DD 27 and DD 45 they are as different as night and day, leading to the conclusion that you can start with the same model, a Sherman or what have you, but the final result will look different. That appears to be the problem with WS 32 versus the NMA: there are no significant differences.

I still don’t think the question I posed about buying a copy has been satisfactorily answered although Steven has come very close. Put in another way, if I can buy a Mercedes, why would I want to buy a copycat? I don’t. It is important to distinguish yourself from your competition. You don’t want to make the same thing as your competitor if they can make it better. This raises the question of why did NMA lead with this as their inaugural vehicle. This discussion probably could have been avoided had they come out with one of the other vehicles. Mike of NMA had intimated that their inaugural vehicle would be a Hetzer. Something like a Marder might have set them apart.

What is important here )as in many other areas) is what I call the two Os: originality in thought and originality in execution. I do not the originality in thought with the NMA model and the similarities leave the originality in execution wanting.

Again, the argument can be made that since Andy has made a panther, what is Honour Bound doing that is so different than what NMA is doing. From all that we know and have heard, the two Os come into play. There appears to an abundance in originality in thought and, from what we can tell (based on the sculptor that is being used) originality in execution. The Honour Bound looks like it will be very special.
 
I suppose that many of us are probably seen as the K&C hardcore and thus what will immediately spring to mind from the Britains, Frontline, Figarti etc reader of this thread would be on the lines of the dictum "nemo iudex in sua causa", and that the K&C nuts shouldn't advocate and adjudicate on the matter. In that regard I suppose there's little that we can do, and I've often nailed my colours to the K&C mast on issues as diverse as predatory discounting to production thresholds, but despite my misgivings on the caution displayed by New Model Army on their initial releases I'd still hope to buy some of their Waffen SS sets. Give them a chance, and if they don't make the grade then don't buy again (Anyone remember the Iraq sets produced by "Field of Conflict"? Thought not. Still important to have people trying). I think that we'd all like to see the hobby expand and grow, and the more innovators the better. Hopefully Mike will take the criticism as a spur to stick his neck out on the next round of releases and try the less-trodden path in the vast panorama of WWII rather than the cautious opening gambit thus far.
 
Do you think part of the reason for the lukewarm reception could be because of the photographs?

Look how Andy likes to present professional pictures of a finished product (Look at the new Afrika Korps photo debate).

These NMA photographs although they fulfill the desperate need of us all to see the product, seem to have damaged the product slightly because they have been badly photographed in a poor setting.

It's just a thought and no disrespect to the guys at NMA is intended.


Pierre,

You asked about the colour scheme. It's basically dunkelgelb (base coat yellowish) with added brown/ green camo. Appropriate for a spring/ summer campaign ie Normandy.
 
Eazy said:
There seems to be confusion of what model armoured car NMA have produced. It doesn't look like a 222 model because it has 8 wheels. Only the 231, 232, 233 and 234 models had 8 wheels.
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Eazy,
You are right. The Sd.Kfz 222 only has four wheels. Hopefully, Mike of NMA can clarify whether his Chinese manfacturer made a huge mistake or whether he put the wrong model number in his original posts listing his introductory line.:confused:

Brad,
I also noticed the coil of wire or rope on the back of both the WS32 and the NMA vehicle, plus the bag on both models right above this wire or rope. Yes, more visual evidence that could lead one to conclude the NMA vehicle is a copy. But if I may speculate, if NMA meant to do a 231 or a variation of this 8 wheeled German scout vehicle, is it possible that all the variations historically had a coil of wire or rope mounted on this location? Other WWII German vehicles appear to have standard locations for equipment or items needed to maintain that particular vehicle. For example, the K&C Tiger tanks and the many versions of Tiger tanks done by Tamiya all have a towing cable mounted on the left or driver's side of the tank. This appears to be one of the historically correct, standard locations for this cable (two more towing cables were mounted on the deck on either side of the turret). Another example, all of these models of different Tigers variants also have a shovel mounted on the front. I also assume this is the historically correct location on a Tiger tank for a shovel. A model of a 231 to 234 might have to have the coil of rope or wire mounted at that location to be historically correct.:)

Finally, with all the controversy over NMA's 222 (or 231?), everyone should remember that NMA has posted they are or will be producing other vehicles that have not been done by K&C like the Wespe, Marder 3, and Strumtiger. I suppose NMA, with hindsight, should have done these samples first.:)
 
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Re: New Model Army( formerly British Commando)

Hi Guys,

Re these recent photos ‘posted’ by New Model Army of their latest samples. I’ve been contacted privately by quite a few concerned K&C collectors about the more-than-passing resemblance to K&C figures and their 8-wheeled vehicle.

To be honest at first I wanted to stay out of the discussion because I was worried that any comments of mine would be seen in some quarters as “sour grapes”. However, as the discussion has gone on with pros and cons on both sides I thought I should make clear where I stand in this particular case. So, here goes…

As I’ve said and written on numerous occasions – “competition is not only healthy but essential to help drive the hobby and business forward.” K&C is living proof of that.

The entry of “Honour Bound”…, “Conte”…, “Figarti …“, Old North West” and I hope a revitalized “Britains” is great for you, the collector and me the producer. Why?

Well, because all of these companies are taking on huge subjects like World War Two in a fresh, exciting and most importantly an original way.

I know that I’ll appreciate the “Honour Bound” Panther because they will tackle the subject in their own original style with a unique “twist” that will make it “Honour Bound”. In a few months time you’ll see K&C’s own Normandy Panther which again will be in our own “signature” style – completely different from “Honour Bound”.

“Figarti” have already released two terrific M3 Stuart Tanks (I’ve got one in my own personal collection). They’ve got a desert “Honey” in the works. Rick showed it to me at the London Show a few weeks ago. I congratulated him with “I wish I had done that!”

Also, later this year K&C are releasing a Stuart but nothing like “Figartis” – an original in its own right.

“Old North West”, whatever personal and business differences we may have had in the past, also produced a whole bunch of great figures that are “uniquely” them, and like no others. Good on them!

The “new” Britains will, I am convinced, also produce ranges that will accurately reflect the originality of both Richard Walker and Ken Osen.

Finally we come to “New Model Army” – the new kid on the block who in their eagerness to join the gang are willing to cut a few corners to get there.

Well this is one particular corner I’m not going to let them cut! And here’s why…

Their 8 wheeled armoured is a “knock-off” of WS32 our retired SdKfz231. How can I tell? Because being one of K&C’s earliest polystone vehicles it was not perfect… there were several design errors and faults which have even been included on the NMA model!

Items of add-on equipment, which as you know K&C love to put on our models, have been moved to a different side… and sometimes modified and disguised. One of the biggest “giveaways” is the general appearance of the painted model.

The casting of the model is not “crisp” and “clean”. What you get when you take models from a second or third degree casting. Cast models from an original master are always “sharp” in their execution. With second or third degree casts you nearly always get some “distortion” – I can see that in the photos.

Believe me I can recognize my own work, faults and all, even when it’s been copied and duplicated with a few minor alternations.

As for their figures there are many similarities but perhaps the most obvious is the kneeling firing rifleman which is a straight “lift” from our Classic German kneeling rifleman from WS39.

For many months now “British Commando”, AKA “New Model Army” have been promising this and promising that. They have been long on talk and very short on actual proof. Finally, they show up with these few pieces or “samples” as they call them – totally lacking in any really new and/or original approach.

Basically they are just “clones” of K&C… and not very good ones at that.

Check out their website even the illustrations they use are “ripped-off” from the old British plastics company “Matchbox”.

Believe me there are NO shortcuts to success in this business and hobby. Just ask “Honour Bound”… “Conte”… “Old North West”… “Britains”… “Figarti”… and “K&C”. All of us have worked and sweated years to get to where we are. Don’t be fooled or misled by “knock-offs” like “Not-So-New-Model. Army”.

Yours very sincerely,

Andy C.

P.S. Where also are the “Wespe” and “Marder” models? The plot thickens…
 
Hi Andy

As always really interesting to hear your thoughts.Can i ask one question,which range of K&C will the forthcoming Stuart be from?.I must say i am tempted by many companies you mention but i always seem to stick to K&C,it keeps the collection "pure".

Rob.
 
Rob,

I believe the Stuart is for Eighth Army, for later this spring.
 
King & Country said:
Their 8 wheeled armoured is a “knock-off” of WS32 our retired SdKfz231. How can I tell? Because being one of K&C’s earliest polystone vehicles it was not perfect … there were several design errors and faults which have even been included on the NMA model!
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With the above confirmation from Andy and his comments regarding some of the NMA figures, NMA has lost the benefit of doubt in my mind. Though not an original idea, any manufacturer can legitimately sculpt their own SdKfz231 since no one has sole rights to making models of this vehicle. However, copying (or recasting) someone else's work in this information age of instant forums and e-mails is terrible public relations and taints everything a company produces, even if original.:(
 
I too would like to comment.
I really took a stand trying to give MNA a real chance. But if in fact they have cast molds from previous K&C figures and vehicles, I stand corrected.
Then in fact they are copies, "knockoffs". and in no way would I buy them.
Now I,m really sorry I went and kicked my dog, hope he forgives me.
Gary
 
Steven,

That was the point I was trying to make (although Andy obviously made it better). Every manufacturer will start with the same basic model, such as, let's say, a Sherman. How the product comes out, however, can and will be different. A case in point is the King and Country Sherman DD 45 (a work of art, in my opinion) and the Britains Shermans. It's the little touches and things that Andy did with the DD 45 that make them very different.

I couldn't agree with you more about their being possibly tainted for the future.
 
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