New Release: Stuart M8 HMC (1 Viewer)

[binder001]

Actually, I am not sure if any of the M8 HMC were in North Afrika or Russia, although there were lots of M5 Stuart tanks there.Terry

Terry you are correct; "75mm Howitzer Motor Carriage, M8" showed up in combat in Italy. I haven't seen a photo of one on Sicily.

I'm not aware of them going to the USSR (unless a few for testing), but the Free French had a number of them. The British don't seem to have had any interest in the M8, but there was a version of the Staghound armored car that was fitted with an M8 turret.

The M8 was fitted with the 75mm pack howitzer in a new mounting. These were used in the Assault Gun Platoons (part of Headquarters Company) of tank and armored infantry battalions. The M8 was replaced in tank units by the 105mm howitzer Shermans (M4 and M4A3) from mid-1944 on (the 2nd and 3rd Armored Divisions operated under the 1942 "heavy" TO&E and they kept their M8s longer). The armored infantry battalions also got 105mm M4's but much later, so their M8s stayed in service longer. One of the biggest users were the Mechanized Cavalry Squadrons - here they were the squadron commander's HE punch. The cavalry squadrons had three (sepaerate) and four (in an armored division) recon troops (companies), a light tank troop (Troop 'F') and the Assault Gun Troop (Troop 'E'). With the armored cars and light tanks having 37mm guns, the Assault Gun Troop gave the squadron some artillery to blast enemy defenses or cover squadron units from attack.

The marines didn't use the M8 but a modified version of the turret was used on the LVT(A)4 Amtank.

Anyway, this is a nice looking item and hasn't been done outside of 1/35th models. CS - you have my interest! I will be adding one of these to my "want list".

Gary B.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry you are correct; "75mm Howitzer Motor Carriage, M8" showed up in combat in Italy. I haven't seen a photo of one on Sicily.

I'm not aware of them going to the USSR (unless a few for testing), but the Free French had a number of them. The British don't seem to have had any interest in the M8, but there was a version of the Staghound armored car that was fitted with an M8 turret.

The M8 was fitted with the 75mm pack howitzer in a new mounting. These were used in the Assault Gun Platoons (part of Headquarters Company) of tank and armored infantry battalions. The M8 was replaced in tank units by the 105mm howitzer Shermans (M4 and M4A3) from mid-1944 on (the 2nd and 3rd Armored Divisions operated under the 1942 "heavy" TO&E and they kept their M8s longer). The armored infantry battalions also got 105mm M4's but much later, so their M8s stayed in service longer. One of the biggest users were the Mechanized Cavalry Squadrons - here they were the squadron commander's HE punch. The cavalry squadrons had three (sepaerate) and four (in an armored division) recon troops (companies), a light tank troop (Troop 'F') and the Assault Gun Troop (Troop 'E'). With the armored cars and light tanks having 37mm guns, the Assault Gun Troop gave the squadron some artillery to blast enemy defenses or cover squadron units from attack.

The marines didn't use the M8 but a modified version of the turret was used on the LVT(A)4 Amtank.

Anyway, this is a nice looking item and hasn't been done outside of 1/35th models. CS - you have my interest! I will be adding one of these to my "want list".

Gary B.

I'm pretty sure the US Army in the Pacific had the M8, certainly in the Philippines.

Terrt

 

[binder001]

Thanks for the intel Phantom. Next question. What's the difference between a tank & a gun motor carriage?

A tank is fully enclosed by armor, fully tracked and intended for offensive operations as well as other tasks. A "gun motor carriage" is the old US Army Ordnance term for "self propelled gun", in other words an artillery weapon mounted on a tracked, halftracked, or wheeled vehicle, usually with some armor for crew protection, but the main mission is to get the cannon (gun or howitzer) into action. US GMCs were usually open topped and had only light armor.

The M8 is more accurately an "HMC" or Howitzer Motor Carriage.

Gary B.

 

[binder001]

I'm pretty sure the US Army in the Pacific had the M8, certainly in the Philippines.Terrt

Yes, I have seen photos of them on Leyte or Luzon.

Gary B.

 

[desk11desk12]

Hi....anybody out there know how this stuff compares in size to kc????????

Aidman

I have a number of there vehicle release and I'm pleased with them overall. I will continue to buy them. The Marder III and the STUG III are good models and IMO are slightly (I do mean only slightly) larger then 1/30. Bottomline your KC figures will work just fine with the CS vehicles.

Carlos

 

[Lewey Gun Vick]

Great AFV Brian!

Vick

 

[AIDMAN]

thanks for your replys guys. just might get myself one !!!!!

aidman.

 

[spartan71]

Another Buyer here. It would be a great January Present . But the wait will be somewhat unbearable.

 

[Beaufighter]

Terry you are correct; "75mm Howitzer Motor Carriage, M8" showed up in combat in Italy. I haven't seen a photo of one on Sicily.

I'm not aware of them going to the USSR (unless a few for testing), but the Free French had a number of them. The British don't seem to have had any interest in the M8, but there was a version of the Staghound armored car that was fitted with an M8 turret.

The M8 was fitted with the 75mm pack howitzer in a new mounting. These were used in the Assault Gun Platoons (part of Headquarters Company) of tank and armored infantry battalions. The M8 was replaced in tank units by the 105mm howitzer Shermans (M4 and M4A3) from mid-1944 on (the 2nd and 3rd Armored Divisions operated under the 1942 "heavy" TO&E and they kept their M8s longer). The armored infantry battalions also got 105mm M4's but much later, so their M8s stayed in service longer. One of the biggest users were the Mechanized Cavalry Squadrons - here they were the squadron commander's HE punch. The cavalry squadrons had three (sepaerate) and four (in an armored division) recon troops (companies), a light tank troop (Troop 'F') and the Assault Gun Troop (Troop 'E'). With the armored cars and light tanks having 37mm guns, the Assault Gun Troop gave the squadron some artillery to blast enemy defenses or cover squadron units from attack.

The marines didn't use the M8 but a modified version of the turret was used on the LVT(A)4 Amtank.

Anyway, this is a nice looking item and hasn't been done outside of 1/35th models. CS - you have my interest! I will be adding one of these to my "want list".

Gary B.

Looking for pictures of one in the Ardennes in 44' from the 2nd or 3rd with no luck at all-or were they already completely phased out by then. Loads of M5 pictures though! Five books down and seven to go!

Thanks,
Beaufighter

 

[binder001]

Looking for pictures of one in the Ardennes in 44' from the 2nd or 3rd with no luck at all-or were they already completely phased out by then. Loads of M5 pictures though! Five books down and seven to go! Thanks, Beaufighter

By the Ardennes caampaign they seem to have been phased out of the 2nd and 3rd Armored, at least in the two Armored Regiments in each division as I have seen photos of 105mm M4s doing fire support. I don't know if they were still in the armored infantry regiments or not. There are photos of M8 HMCs supporting armored cav units in the Bulge. I was just reading a story about the 14th Cavalry Group - the outfit that was spread out in the Loshiem Gap area. Their assault gun troops tried to support the cavalryment in their desperate attempt to stop the Germans.

Most seperate tank battalions and the tank battalions of the "light" armored divisions came to Normandy with 105mm M4s but the 2nd and 3rd Armored still had M8s. There are a couple great photos of an M8 HMC of the 67th Armored Regiment showing both sides of the vehicle, taken with a couple days of each other. The rare ones to find photos of are the M8 HMCs assigned to armored infantry units.

Gary B.

 

[Beaufighter]

Gary:

As always, a sincere thank you for your contributions and taking the time to respond. I have some more homework/research to do which is quite fun. Happy Holidays!

All My Best,
Marc

 

[nmrocks]

So do you guys have some info on Pacific theater applications for this vehicle? Can you refer me?? Pics??
Ray

 

[binder001]

So do you guys have some info on Pacific theater applications for this vehicle? Can you refer me?? Pics?? Ray

I'll have to look when I get home. The photos I remember off hand are from the Phillipines and/or Okinawa. I don't recall any "cool" camoflage, just muddy OD.

Gary B.

 

[nmrocks]

I'll have to look when I get home. The photos I remember off hand are from the Phillipines and/or Okinawa. I don't recall any "cool" camoflage, just muddy OD.

Gary B.

OK thanks, still the theater can certainly use some variety

 

[wayne556517]

At long last some damaged Allied armour,great piece this will be on the list next year.

 

[wayne556517]

Hi....anybody out there know how this stuff compares in size to kc????????

Aidman

Ive posted these elsewhere but here you go look for yourself.

 

[binder001]

re: the Pacific use of the M8 HMC. After the grandchildren left last night I went down and did a quick literature check. In Steve Zaloga's "Tank Battles of the Pacific War", published by Concord I found a couple shots from Saipan and a couple from Leyte. There were also a few photos in Tankograd Publications' "Technical Manual Series" on the M8 HMC that show M8s on Saipan (one mis-labelled as a USMC vehicle) and some in th Phillipines. My wild guess is that the Army's 27th Division on Saipan had M8s in some (all three??) of their regimental cannon companies as the M8 wouldn't be in the normal equipment for an Army infantry division. I don't know if the M8s in the PI were also infantry guns or cavalry, but most cavalry units in the PTO fought dismounted.

By the way, the Free French got a number of M8s and they also used their M8 HMCs in Indochina and in Algeria. The French are probably the source of the running M8s in Europe (I think there are at least two).

Gary B.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

re: the Pacific use of the M8 HMC. After the grandchildren left last night I went down and did a quick literature check. In Steve Zaloga's "Tank Battles of the Pacific War", published by Concord I found a couple shots from Saipan and a couple from Leyte. There were also a few photos in Tankograd Publications' "Technical Manual Series" on the M8 HMC that show M8s on Saipan (one mis-labelled as a USMC vehicle) and some in th Phillipines. My wild guess is that the Army's 27th Division on Saipan had M8s in some (all three??) of their regimental cannon companies as the M8 wouldn't be in the normal equipment for an Army infantry division. I don't know if the M8s in the PI were also infantry guns or cavalry, but most cavalry units in the PTO fought dismounted.

By the way, the Free French got a number of M8s and they also used their M8 HMCs in Indochina and in Algeria. The French are probably the source of the running M8s in Europe (I think there are at least two).

Gary B.

I had only ever heard of M8 HMCs on the big Pacific islands as part of US army cavalry regiments - never heard of the Marines having any on the small islands. Given their timeframe before they were replaced by Sherman 105s, they were probably most heavily used in Italy and would have had only a secondary role in Normandy and only by the US - the Brits and Canadians didn't use them.. Because they were light, maneuverable and didn't have to face strong anti-tank defenses or heavy tanks, they were probably well used in jungle and dirt track terrain on the large Pacific islands like the Philippines and Okinawa by the Army in their operations.

Terry

 

[binder001]

Terry - quite right. The Marines never bought an M8. The cavalry regiments in the 1st Cavalry Division fought as light infantry (there's a good new volume by Osprey on "US Cavalry Units in the Pacific"). Each infantry division had a cavalry recon troop, but the M8s were at squadron level and in the Pacific the recon troops fought dismounted or in jeeps.

You are right that the Phillipines and Okinawa featured multi-division operations with more mechanized support.

In each infantry regiment there was a six-gun Regimental Cannon Company. These were originally equipped with 75mm pack howitzer; these were replaced by "baby" 105mm howitzers (M3 type)(these were the weapons my father fired during WW2 in Europe). Certain units in Italy and in Europe had M7 105mm HMCs giving them a self-propelled cannon company. I think some of the assault divisions going in on DDay also had SP cannon companies. In the Pacific the terrain favored SP guns over towed, so that's why I "guesstimated" that some of the M8s were in re-equipped regimental cannon companies.

Any which way, the M8 is a nice addition to the available 1/30th scale vehicles.

Gary B.

 

[MarkeytMaker]

I'm somewhat new to this collecting and all I can say is this baby has me drooling...I want one...I want one....I want one!!! SUperb, absolutely a gem. I can not wait. Where is the best place to pre-order this item...normsally I buy from SierraToysoldier.com and have had great service.

Markey