New Releases: Horch & Tiger (1 Viewer)

[jazzeum]

Doug,

You're free (as in anyone else) to see what they want about any subject here (except politics). If you want to criticize K & C, go right ahead and I certainly don't try to dissuade anybody from what they're trying to say. As for saying what I thought about the Rammjager, I think that's a very divisive issue, that a lot has been said about it, and that we should move on. As for the armored car, I was disappointed that it didn't appear to have existed and I was also one of the first to voice criticisms about the Hedyrich Car.

If you have in fact said many a good thing about K & C, well, then I apologize to you and withdraw the comment. However, if you're implying that I've received free gifts from K & C and that is reason why I like or support K & C, that is likewise absolutely false. I have never received any free gift from Andy. I happen to like the company just like you are a strong supporter of HB.

As for the question of being tight lipped, please see my previous post. Let's just say we disagree about tactics that businesses should take.

I also appreciate your many contributions to the Forum, as well as your knowledge, and wouldn't want any more rancor to come between us so why don't we just say we disagree and leave it at that.

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Michael,

We're talking about two models out of the many they've made that were never made and if you want to throw the plumes in there that's fine.

They are a behemoth but if you want to compete with them, guard your secrets zealously until you're ready to go to market. That is what they do. HB didn't and Andy beat them to the punch. That is just good business. Apparently, CS let it slip and K and C responded.

It is competitive and he's trying to stay on top. His strategy would seem to be make a lot of product and thus make it harder for us to spread our cash around. I've groused about that too. However, his view is he's giving us choices and that's true also.

In many ways, being on top is a no win situation (whatever business you're in) because somebody is always gunning for you. That's why guarding your intellectual property and trade secrets is so so important.

I try to stay fairly quite in regards to what is being conversed about. However Jazzeum has brought up an issue that I do believe should be now be discussed.




I was not going to reveal our new releases for another 1.5 weeks ( see previous posts ). However I noticed the new thread in the K&C area that described the exact release ( Horch and Tiger ) that we have been working on for over 3 months.



Let it be known that no one, I repeat no one was told about these new releases, nothing was ever " leaked " and the products are now in production. Collectors should know that we are having our vehicles manufactured in the very same factory that Andy uses for some of his armor. Our pre-production pieces most probably were spotted by someone at K&C and hence the " new " direction tht K&C has decided to pursue in regards to vehicles ( I just hope for their sake they don't wind up being OUR vehicles. ).




This week I will now address this breach of privacy with this factory and see what can be done to keep our projects completely confidential in the future.



Im just trying to have fun in a fantastic industry, make some great products and move forward, It seems our growth is going to be made as painful as possible by K&C. Sad but true.



Yes do buckle in, this will be a wild ride: onward!



Best regards,

Brian

 

[jazzeum]

Brian,

Really glad you addressed that and hope you address that with the factory and wish you luck with that as well. I know how important trade secrets and intellectual property are to a company: it is its lifeblood and without them, a company (in any business) is in serious trouble.

 

[Combat]

Doug,

You're free (as in anyone else) to see what they want about any subject here (except politics). If you want to criticize K & C, go right ahead and I certainly don't try to dissuade anybody from what they're trying to say. As for saying what I thought about the Rammjager, I think that's a very divisive issue, that a lot has been said about it, and that we should move on. As for the armored car, I was disappointed that it didn't appear to have existed and I was also one of the first to voice criticisms about the Hedyrich Car.

Brad- You clearly tried to dissuade us from discussing the RJ/armored car issue. In fact, that was your only contribution to that discussion. In addition, a lot has been said about the HB price issue but I don't see those posters chastised by you for discussing it ad nauseam or told to move on. With that said I don't hold any grudges - I think you do try to be fair but sometimes fall short because of whatever real or imaged loyalties you have to KC. Posters here do however receive gifts from KC and then berate competitors. That is just a matter of reading the posts.

 

[desert fox]

1 : Remember this is a competitive business , while Andy trying to steal CS`s thunder with the leak might not have been the most chivalrous act it is far from
what I would consider "dirty" .

2 : Regarding the SS subject , personally I think a large # of them were disreputable murderous scum . However I do feel quite a few were soldiers like any other fighting for their country . Also from a historical perspective , objectively they were 2ND to none on a battlefield in the second world war (hence the collector interest) . Also I realize that some of the board members are Jewish , so I try to be sensitive & respective of that & not say to much .

3 : We should also not forget that CS is benefiting from a 1/30 genre CREATED soley by K & C . CS would not even be making these sets if not for K & C , does that give the Scotsman sense right of entitlement , I would think so .

4 : I have almost 75 sets of K & C , have met Andy & find him affable to say the least ( & cna vouch that he respects his consumer) & guess what I`m buying the new Arnhem sets . Whats wrong with that ? Buy what you like & leave it at that .

5 : On another note I remember when CS first came out & a vendor was telling me about Andy being a little concerned over Figarti & not so much CS .
I drew the correlation to that of Hitlers fascination with the Pas De Calais & ignoring Normandy .........
competition

 

[jazzeum]

Brad- You clearly tried to dissuade us from discussing the RJ/armored car issue. In fact, that was your only contribution to that discussion. In addition, a lot has been said about the HB price issue but I don't see those posters chastised by you for discussing it ad nauseam or told to move on. With that said I don't hold any grudges - I think you do try to be fair but sometimes fall short because of whatever real or imaged loyalties you have to KC. Posters here do however receive gifts from KC and then berate competitors. That is just a matter of reading the posts.

Doug,

I was just giving my opinion in the last few days that I thought we had discussed the RJ enough but by all means if you want to continue please do so. I'm just not sure it serves any purpose. As far as the armored car, I really didn't say much about it (as far as I remember) except in the beginning. I would have contributed but I believe you and others discussed it very well and I don't think I had anything more to contribute. On the HB price issue, I thought I said something about the price is the price and why complain about it. I would love to have one. I'm just not sure I have the budget for it as I want to get one of the Warbirds later this year.

I am a friend of Andy (that is not a secret) but if you think I'm not being fair, I don't mind being told so as trying to be fair is my objective.

Regards,

 

[Halo]

The Tiger looks great and am looking forward to getting one.

Once again, the Arnhem figures are great. Great job.

 

[desert fox]

Brad has a point about price regarding HB`s pieces . I am not happy with the overall 30 % increase in prices we`ve seen it has made me much more selective (including K & C who were at one time 20.00 per figure & are now 29.00) . If you spend over 300.00 on a single piece that has to put some kind of crimp in your collecting budget , and if it does not well then more power to you !!!!

 

[King & Country]

Hi Guys,

I’ve stayed away from the forum for a while on the basis that whenever I do appear I’m sure to attract ‘flak’ from certain members who love nothing more than ‘picking fights’.

However, I cannot and will not allow CS to make wild, unsubstantiated claims about K&C or myself any longer.

For the record, we announced a new Command Car which had already been in the works for many, many months and a new kind of Tiger (I like to tease as much as the next guy).

The Command Car as I’m sure you can see on another post is a ‘Desert’ version. As for the ‘kind of Tiger’… well there are lots of Tigers… some early… some mid… some late productions… there’s also JagdTigers… and King Tigers to choose from. So, why should CS think we’re doing the same Tiger as him?

Another of the wild claims he makes is that somehow, someone is ‘leaking’ his production info to us… Bollocks! Yes, it’s true one of the factories we use is also used by him… it’s also used by East of India… Frontline and several others… so what!? If he’s so paranoid about people leaking his ‘state secrets’ maybe he should find another factory.

Factories in China are very, very protective about all of the clients… I know as much about CS and their plans (present and future) as I do about Frontline and East of India… a big fat nothing! And I hope they know as much about K&C.

Finally, as for CS ‘trying to have fun in this fantastic industry’… Please go ahead… have all the fun you like. Your growth will certainly not be made ‘as painful as possible by K&C’… we’ve got better things to do with our time.

Let battle commence!
Best wishes and… happy collecting!

Andy C.

 

[Canadian Samurai]

Hmm.. I've been away from this forum for a few weeks and return to find things in turmoil as usual... now the manufacturers are fighting with each other!

Factories in China are very, very protective about all of the clients…

That's worth a good laugh!

I have followed the 1/6th action figure hobby for 10 years and have seen many instances of one manufacturer (Dragon models particularly) copying the exact products of their competitors (Blue Box international, Yellow Submarine, DiD etc.). It pretty much always follows the pattern see here - one company has detailed pictures of their products, while the copier posts a big "surprise" announcement out of the blue that they are making the same products (when traditionally that company was extremely tight lipped about new releases).

I'm not impressed by K&C's behaviour here one bit. Leaves a sour taste in my mouth. There's lots of great subjects left to be done in world military history.

 

[noli-poli]

What's going on is all good for the consumers/collectors.
I'll buy what I see fit in building my collection.

I would like to take exception to Honor Bound...they are a league of their own.

N-P

 

[Canadian Samurai]

It would be better for the collectors I think if each company made their own unique products. Do we really need two more tigers right now when there's so many other cool vehicles to make?

 

[nasirkasmani]

Guys,

I admit i am very new in this hobby (a year plus), and started joining this forum a few months ago, (i was a 1/6th figure collector for around 6 years).

But i do not understand the hostility towards Andy. Disclaimer - i am not an employee of K&C, never meet Andy, never received any gifts, just a regular joe buying and collecting what I sees fit.

Sure i have some things i'm not happy with K&C about (If you check my postings you will see that), such as -

1) scale discrepancies
2) fantasy items
3) poor customer service (3 weeks and still haven't get reply to purchase replacement for my damaged crew)

But to take be so hostile to Andy is ridiculous.
He doesnt force us to buy the items, so democracy still prevail, i think.

The challenge from the 3 other companies is great for us consumers, as it gives us much variety to choose from.

For eg the Tiger (in my opinion at CURRENT time)

if you want to customize your tanks get HB,

if you want manic details get Figarti,

if you prioritize getting the most metal parts get CS

if you want the most mainstream with many figures, then get K&C.

With these stiff challenges, the 4 companies had to step up, so far - no more scale problems, no more dull paint job, no more "zombie" figures, etc.

The competition is so stiff that i had altered my purchase list FOUR times for this month alone. (the latest being the CS Tiger)

As for the espionage charges, well in the 1/6th business is worse.
(DML) Dragon Company played on with such insolence, crushing the competition so that they can have their "buy it or **** off" attitude.
Thats why i leave 1/6 for 1/30.

In conclusion, give some respect to Andy.

If you dont like his items just dont buy it.

Sincerely,

Nasir kasmani.

 

[Rob]

Guys,

I admit i am very new in this hobby (a year plus), and started joining this forum a few months ago, (i was a 1/6th figure collector for around 6 years).

But i do not understand the hostility towards Andy. Disclaimer - i am not an employee of K&C, never meet Andy, never received any gifts, just a regular joe buying and collecting what I sees fit.

Sure i have some things i'm not happy with K&C about (If you check my postings you will see that), such as -

1) scale discrepancies
2) fantasy items
3) poor customer service (3 weeks and still haven't get reply to purchase replacement for my damaged crew)

But to take be so hostile to Andy is ridiculous.
He doesnt force us to buy the items, so democracy still prevail, i think.

The challenge from the 3 other companies is great for us consumers, as it gives us much variety to choose from.

For eg the Tiger (in my opinion at CURRENT time)

if you want to customize your tanks get HB,

if you want manic details get Figarti,

if you prioritize getting the most metal parts get CS

if you want the most mainstream with many figures, then get K&C.

With these stiff challenges, the 4 companies had to step up, so far - no more scale problems, no more dull paint job, no more "zombie" figures, etc.

The competition is so stiff that i had altered my purchase list FOUR times for this month alone. (the latest being the CS Tiger)

As for the espionage charges, well in the 1/6th business is worse.
(DML) Dragon Company played on with such insolence, crushing the competition so that they can have their "buy it or **** off" attitude.
Thats why i leave 1/6 for 1/30.

In conclusion, give some respect to Andy.

If you dont like his items just dont buy it.

Sincerely,

Nasir kasmani.

Couldn't agree more Nasir.And excactly the same was true for me.I also collected 1/6 Dragon figures and i found their customer service appalling i often waited a month for an email reply.

I also agree that there really is no need for personal attacks on here.We all have the choice to buy or not to buy.If i don't like an item from a certain supplier i might say something like 'I won't be buying this because this or that is wrong with it',but then i'd let it go.

What i think is that there are so many people on this forum who are real experts in military History and it is a joy to read all of their posts and learn stuff i never knew before,but its such a shame to see them bogged down in arguments.

I also think that people might forget the human angle on this.Whatever people think Andy is a human being and he is rightly proud of his product and company.Can you imagine what it must be like to constantly read a stream of criticism and abuse,can't speak for Andy but i would get very tired of it and probably not bother with the forum.And whatever your position is,Andy is the head of probably the best and most popular Toy soldier company in the world,it would be a great shame if it drove him away from here.

Just my tuppence worth.

Rob

 

[debrito]

What's going on is all good for the consumers/collectors.
I'll buy what I see fit in building my collection.

I would like to take exception to Honor Bound...they are a league of their own.

N-P

I second you NP, more quality competition we have, better products will be available for us, and I think even the prices will decrease....

Cheers

 

[uksubs]

It would be better for the collectors I think if each company made their own unique products. Do we really need two more tigers right now when there's so many other cool vehicles to make?

Got to agree with Canadian Samurai on this how many Tiger tanks do we need
The Lack of British armour & commonwealth troops make me sick to
It can't be that hard to make a Cromwell / Comet tank
I was hoping that K&C & Collector Show would be bringing out more Market Garden stuff by now

 

[Rob]

Got to agree with Canadian Samurai on this how many Tiger tanks do we need
The Lack of British armour & commonwealth troops make me sick to
It can't be that hard to make a Cromwell / Comet tank
I was hoping that K&C & Collector Show would be bringing out more Market Garden stuff by now

Sooner or later the Dam will break!.There is a huge desire for British Armour on the forum and i hope that in the near future the big producers will address this for us.

Rob

 

[The Collectors Showcase]

Hi Guys,

I’ve stayed away from the forum for a while on the basis that whenever I do appear I’m sure to attract ‘flak’ from certain members who love nothing more than ‘picking fights’.

However, I cannot and will not allow CS to make wild, unsubstantiated claims about K&C or myself any longer.

For the record, we announced a new Command Car which had already been in the works for many, many months and a new kind of Tiger (I like to tease as much as the next guy).

The Command Car as I’m sure you can see on another post is a ‘Desert’ version. As for the ‘kind of Tiger’… well there are lots of Tigers… some early… some mid… some late productions… there’s also JagdTigers… and King Tigers to choose from. So, why should CS think we’re doing the same Tiger as him?

Another of the wild claims he makes is that somehow, someone is ‘leaking’ his production info to us… Bollocks! Yes, it’s true one of the factories we use is also used by him… it’s also used by East of India… Frontline and several others… so what!? If he’s so paranoid about people leaking his ‘state secrets’ maybe he should find another factory.

Factories in China are very, very protective about all of the clients… I know as much about CS and their plans (present and future) as I do about Frontline and East of India… a big fat nothing! And I hope they know as much about K&C.

Finally, as for CS ‘trying to have fun in this fantastic industry’… Please go ahead… have all the fun you like. Your growth will certainly not be made ‘as painful as possible by K&C’… we’ve got better things to do with our time.

Let battle commence!
Best wishes and… happy collecting!

Andy C.

".....maybe he should find another factory....."

"Maybe he should find another factory", the real motivation made abundantly clear. Same old game different new player ( us!). I know what we'll do: we'll try to push him out of the factory. We'll pre-announce all of his runs for him hence driving him from this factory, but guess what we try to be in every small factory, so he won't even be able to bring any product to market if we can make it happen!



To heck with trying to create better and more creative products just stop his products from even getting done or out to market.



Now thats taking the high road



Lets see: K&C is suddenly manufacturing the exact same products, at the exact same time, all of a sudden in the exact same factory. And umm, this was all coincidence, how do you say it: Bollocks!



Cheers Andy!

 

[jazzeum]

I'm wondering if this is an issue that should be discussed privately and not on this Forum between Andy and Brian.

 

[RoughRider]

Can some be kind enough to tell me the scale difference between K&C and CS? Thank you.