NOR001-NOR011 Normandy US Paratroopers Pre-Order! (1 Viewer)

[FirstLegion]

I'm somewhat surprised (and dissapointed) however, given the amount of readily available reference material devoted to US Airborne Forces in WWII out there in the form of books, re-enactor groups, films etc that this error got through.

Us too, believe me! If it wasn't too late to fix it, we certainly would. And just to clarify, it wasn't a research error, it was a sculpting error that we failed to correct. The sculpting process is typically a very iterative to correct all sorts of details - anatomy, equipment, etc... and it was no different with these figures. But when looking at all of the fine detail, every once in awhile something very obvious that you don't even think about becuase it's so basic can get missed. Normally such things get corrected of course, but in this case we all just missed it. :redface2:

 

[Firebat]

For me, this would have put me off having the figures with the incorrect stripes. I am a little unsure how collectors of US Para's will react. Alex as a person who likes their detail what do you think? They cannot really be used in a diorama of any kind where you can see them. Flags are a different matter as there are pictures of some of these guys with them in normandy so, there is always the exception to the rule in these matters. I would think that molding on the flags and chevrons should be something that would be ended as a means to aid painters and similar. With some of the very detailed markings that can be produced today I would have thought it would have been better to have gone down this route as once the error was noticed it could easily have been rectified than stay as a permanent feature of the figure.

Would it really be a lot of work to remake a couple of arms on these affected figures and delay their release rather than have them released knowing of the issue?

Please note these are serious questions and points which, I think we should be able to discuss rationally. I am interested
Mitch

Yes Alex will react. As far as I am concerned nothing is perfect in this hobby. I should still be building 1/35th scale models, but I just dont enjoy that anymore. This industry has come a long way though and FL has done a remarkable job for the most part. I am surprised they missed these particular details but as I said, so have others.

The forum has become very volatile as of late in regards to manufacturer loyalty, so I will not comment on who I do and dont like. I know most of the manufacturers and I can speak to them personally, so why discuss it here. There is a tremendous knowledge to be had by speaking to them and it has given me a very clear picture of the industry, and each manufacturers intent.

Knowing Matt he will do things right to the best of his ability. . Alex

 

[Gebhard]

Us too, believe me! If it wasn't too late to fix it, we certainly would. And just to clarify, it wasn't a research error, it was a sculpting error that we failed to correct. The sculpting process is typically a very iterative to correct all sorts of details - anatomy, equipment, etc... and it was no different with these figures. But when looking at all of the fine detail, every once in awhile something very obvious that you don't even think about becuase it's so basic can get missed. Normally such things get corrected of course, but in this case we all just missed it. :redface2:

Hi Matt ,
I know its not easy for ya to eat some humble pie and post on here knowing the sharks smell blood in the water and even the guys who don't collect FL will be chomping at the bit to let you know how disappointed they are :rolleyes2: . I'm not really happy about it as I have said but hey thank GOD it only effects two figures . I'm sure this mistake will haunt you for awhile.... Like they say that which does not kill us makes us stronger and in this case your still breathing so hopefully mistake numer two will be the last . I'm sure FL collectors appreciate the mannor in which you responded to this matter I know I do.
Now onto a good note ... So you say Blücher and Scharnhorst along with the first figures of the 7YW are coming up for preorder , as I will miss that due to being out of the Country could you if possible please hold me 2 each of Blücher and Scharnhorst one to display and one encase I break one... I can't take a chance on missing those two :wink2: . I will deal with the 7YW if I bring any money home with me .. ..Regards Gebhard

 

[Mitch]

I don't think it has anything to do with sharks smelling blood. This is a TS forum where we are to discuss the good and the bad and highlight errors and innacuracies as well as praise when it is good. This makes a product better and shows that collectors understand their product. I don't think because its FL that we have to tread any differently or carefully to any other manufacturer.

This could be any manufacturer but, they should IMO not release the two figures at all and correct the error which, is being played down by most of the FL collectors who seem willing to accept this. JJD made an error on an aircraft that was highlighted by Al and, he just delayed the release rectified the problem ensuring the accuracy of the aircraft. Why can this not be done and, on two figures simply remake the arms??

I think its a valid question and one I would expect a manufacturer who sets their stall out with such pride towards gaining accuracy and detail would not want to have in their inventory. How can collectors use these two figures and not care about the fact that its absolutely wrong however one plays semantics with how it happened. to display them in shelf displays or, dioramas is just asking for everyone who knows the basics of uniforms and ranks, not to mention, anyone who has served in the military, to mention it.
Mitch

 

[Fusilier]

I was afraid this might happen. I was hesistant to even bring up the issue when I first noticed it. Not only is it fodder for those who want to take a swipe at First Legion, but it could also hurt Matt's sales in the long run. When I first asked about it, I was simply wondering if I was seeing the figures correctly and if the chevrons were ever worn in the English-style. I have read that some U.S. uniforms were manufactered in England in a reverse-lend-lease deal, so I thought that, in a long shot, that might account for the English-style chevrons.

Now that the issue is in the open though, I think Matt has done the right thing and admitted it was an oversight. I doubt any of us could produce the number of figures he does and make every last one of the them 'perfect'. Is the situation unfortunate? Yes. Is this going to keep me from buying First Legion products in the future? Absolutely not. I have spoken with Matt a number of times in private conversations, as have many of you. There are a good number of us who can personally state, based on those conversations, just how hard Matt works at getting all the little details as correct as possible. I think that he has done a stellar job for a number of years now. I applaud the man for getting on here and addressin the issue so quickly and honestly.

Noah

 

[jazzeum]

In the end I don't think this is a huge issue. It certainly won't bother me. If it does bother a person, that person doesn't need to purchase it.

This reminds me of when Firebat first joined the Forum and pointed out a couple of errors in the K & C 82nd. Of course there was the usual hand wringing. However, years later how many really remember or care. Precious few I think.

Regarding pulling the figures, we don't know how many planes JJD may have made vs how many figures FL may have made, not to mention the different way in which the enterprises are run. If a large number of figures have been made, you're talking about a huge writeoff. Not sure Matt and FL would think the errors justify that cost.

Brad

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Us too, believe me! If it wasn't too late to fix it, we certainly would. And just to clarify, it wasn't a research error, it was a sculpting error that we failed to correct. The sculpting process is typically a very iterative to correct all sorts of details - anatomy, equipment, etc... and it was no different with these figures. But when looking at all of the fine detail, every once in awhile something very obvious that you don't even think about becuase it's so basic can get missed. Normally such things get corrected of course, but in this case we all just missed it. :redface2:

Not a huge deal. Mistakes happen. FL makes very few mistakes and fewer than most. At least there is a clear explanation of what happened as opposed to a "damage control" type of response which only asks more questions and ends up in a fight. I say move on - nothing to argue about.

Will there be a second batch of the 2 figures in the future with the chevrons correct?

Terry

 

[6th Wisconsin]

I hope they do change the sergeant in a future batch. What a great piece and likely a big seller.

 

[pugio]

A similar "patch" story. I was stationed at Blackhorse Firebase,'67, in the Central Highlands. Orders came in promoting me to Spec4. I gave most of my fatigues with the new patches to the Vietnamese woman who took care of our bunker to sew on. Went out on patrol late that afternoon and my sgt asks me, with a smile on his face, what rank was I promoted to. It seems the woman sewed them all on upside down. It was an uneventful patrol, she changed all patches except one and I kept that one for good luck... However good luck was few and far between....

 

[jazzeum]

Great story Andy :smile2:

Brad

 

[Phantom Warrior]

A similar "patch" story. I was stationed at Blackhorse Firebase,'67, in the Central Highlands. Orders came in promoting me to Spec4. I gave most of my fatigues with the new patches to the Vietnamese woman who took care of our bunker to sew on. Went out on patrol late that afternoon and my sgt asks me, with a smile on his face, what rank was I promoted to. It seems the woman sewed them all on upside down. It was an uneventful patrol, she changed all patches except one and I kept that one for good luck... However good luck was few and far between....

Great story. Nice to see the woman made it through the war and got a job with FL :wink2:^&grin

The chevrons used to point down like the British ones. Certainly that was the case during the US Civil War. By WWI the chevrons were pointing up, but I have never heard any explanation as to why it was changed.

Terry

 

[sammy719]

I for one will have both of these sets in a future Normandy dio, the chevrons are a little disappointing but hey I can live with it, I have mentioned it before the Para kneeling is my favorite, so I look forward to picking these sets up in Chicago and come next June a Normandy dio will fit these Paras well...Sammy

 

[fmethorst]

While I don't like errors I appreciate that they do occur. Ultimately it's a business decision on how to deal with it. The options are basically, pull the figures and repair (likely cost prohibitive), or acknowledge the error and let collectors decide whether it's a deal breaker.

On the whole this is excellent release and a great start for the western front for me.