NY Times Editor wants American soil forts names changed.... (1 Viewer)

[damian]

Name change debates are quite widespread throughout the world. This is not purely an issue for the US.
History does not change but our understanding of it,s significance does with time. The effect it has on marginal groups also becomes better understood. It is revisionist to try and keep a rosé tinted view of the past not to explore in new ways or using new methodologies how the shared past was actually experienced by those who lived through it .

 

[The Military Workshop]

I subscribe to 11 newspapers (digitally) and read articles from a half dozen more each week. The NY Times is one of many places I get my news and I certainly don't insult
the other publications even if I don't agree with them. Try looking at both sides of a debate before you make irresponsible statements.

I sometimes read 2 or 3 newspapers a day and my family thinks I have a problem ! I think they have a
problem because they dont read any.

 

[Scott]

So, what you are saying is, let's just teach our kids to ignore part of US history and only have access through research in a museum or library? I don't find history "troubling", I find it as history, interesting, etc. Really, it is whatever you want to make of it, interpret it, etc. I believe, in good/bad/indifferent, people should understand their history. The whole doomed to repeat it statement is quite accurate in my opinion.

I would hope most people don't want to relegate history to museums. Last time I checked, kids are still studying Attila the Hun and Genghis Khan, Adolf Hitler, Tojo and many other brutal events. That's a good thing as again, I think it is important to understand and be exposed rather than just sweep it away to a museum.

TD

Actually nothing that I said.

 

[Scott]

The average American doesn't think about the Civil War now anyways nor much else to do with history and when we get rid of the Civil War, what next the holocaust or the treatment of the American Indians maybe the internment of the Japanese Americans? There is a lot to be learned from this era and it's not all is as nice and neat as most would have us believe, everything the Confederacy stood for was not evil and everything the Union did was not good or even legal. If you don't want to study the Civil War then don't, simple as that.

Nothing that I wrote.

 

[Jack]

I sometimes read 2 or 3 newspapers a day and my family thinks I have a problem !

Are you sure these two things are connected?{sm3}

 

[jazzeum]

I find it troubling when someone says I will fly my flag, you fly yours. Last time I checked this is the United States of America. There are not two countries that occupy the geographical space between Canada and Mexico.

 

[nysoldiers]

Name change debates are quite widespread throughout the world. This is not purely an issue for the US.
History does not change but our understanding of it,s significance does with time. The effect it has on marginal groups also becomes better understood. It is revisionist to try and keep a rosé tinted view of the past not to explore in new ways or using new methodologies how the shared past was actually experienced by those who lived through it .

Good points.....you will find that history books used in schools are updated constantly as new research and understandings evolve.

 

[nysoldiers]

Rich,
we have met and talked in person and it was enjoyable.

As for me agreeing with a comment someone else made, I stand by it. As for what news I do like, you could not be more off based and I think you make a lot of assumptions above about my viewpoints. My comment has to do with this issue in this thread and I find it downright stupid, hence my comment. Now, if you feel better with your above diatribe, then by all means, go with it.

End of day, as I said in another thread, I will continue to fly my flag, by all means, enjoy yours. That statment is just that, I have my opinions, you have yours. The above is just absolutely so off based on my viewpoints, your post is laughable. And by the way, the last time I checked, I still live in a free country and can have ANY opinion I want to on anything, I didn't know it had to be qualified, researched, vetted, etc.

TD

Yes, and we can agree to disagree and still be friends. You have a right to your opinion but I think there is a responsibility in an intelligent debate or argument to express it in a civil and fact based manner. If you don't agree with an article or editorial state your reasons and we can all learn from the dialog. For you and Toy Soldier Brigade to say "you wouldn't line your bird cage" with a particular newspaper is tantamount to someone calling your opinion "crap" and you are "stupid". Tell me a newspaper is too liberal or too conservative in their editorials. Tell me you don't like their writing style or a particular artical has its facts wrong and we can debate and learn. Sure, my assumptions about your sources for information could be wrong but I was only trying to illustrate how your affirmation of a juvenile statement makes people suspect of your motivations. Obviously this debate has touched a nerve with you and I think your emotions got the better of you. I am not a shareholder of the NY Times. I agree that it has a liberal slant but I also think they have over the years done some excellent reporting and investigating. There are millions of readers who agree with me so why insult them with a blanket statement if you only meant to disagree with a particular article. I have plenty of friends who don't share my political beliefs but I never say their opinions or sources are crap.
We all can learn from each other and I have altered or changed my opinion when the facts and logic are compelling.
I read their editorials knowing where they lean and I read more liberal and conservative papers understanding their bias. Usually my opinions are somewhere in the middle. My whole argument goes along with other comments on this thread that history may not change but how we view it in an evolving society will alter our opinions. Obviously our experiences are different so we have different perspectives....that is fine with me and I don't take it personally.

 

[Napoleon1er]

I have met many of you guys personally- Scott, Brad, Tom. I also have known the rest of you through this forum for a while. It is quite obvious many of us have different political opinions, and it is also obvious that we all believe in freedom- freedom to hold these opinions, to express them. Moreover, we all believe that history is one of the world's greatest treasures and that it must be preserved and remembered else we repeat those darker times within it. This forum is not for arguing about what newspaper is good (note that we are arguing about newspapers- we're probably the only ones left doing so{sm4}) or about petty differences in the wording of our opinions. This forum is for discussing and preserving history, and keeping it alive through toy soldiers. Why don't we let things cool off a bit.
-Sandor

 

[gk5717]

I wish the NYT would do an investigative expose on the "paint flaking" problem of Figarti products, something that would help all of mankind!
Gary

 

[The Military Workshop]

I wish the NYT would do an investigative expose on the "paint flaking" problem of Figarti products, something that would help all of mankind!
Gary

and if they do they will no doubt pick up on this post by you 3 days ago :

"I was on here a few weeks ago blasting Figarti. I thought it only right that I report the latest news. Figarti has agreed to repair, all at their expense, any problems I have encountered with there products.
So a thumbs up to them for being stand-up on this situation.
I will leave it at that.
Gary".

 

[nysoldiers]

I love the smell of testosterone in the morning!

 

[nysoldiers]

I have met many of you guys personally- Scott, Brad, Tom. I also have known the rest of you through this forum for a while. It is quite obvious many of us have different political opinions, and it is also obvious that we all believe in freedom- freedom to hold these opinions, to express them. Moreover, we all believe that history is one of the world's greatest treasures and that it must be preserved and remembered else we repeat those darker times within it. This forum is not for arguing about what newspaper is good (note that we are arguing about newspapers- we're probably the only ones left doing so{sm4}) or about petty differences in the wording of our opinions. This forum is for discussing and preserving history, and keeping it alive through toy soldiers. Why don't we let things cool off a bit.
-Sandor

Agreed....we all love history so stick to discussing and debating material issues. We are starting to sound and act like our dysfunctional government.

 

[tdubel]

I find it troubling when someone says I will fly my flag, you fly yours. Last time I checked this is the United States of America. There are not two countries that occupy the geographical space between Canada and Mexico.

Brad, I used that term metaphorically for my own opinion if you read my whole post, you kind of are taking that out of context! (slightly unfair)

I agree we are one Country, although, I think an argument can be made that we are a divided country on a lot of issues which is a whole other debate that has nothing to do with the Mason Dixon Line!^&grin

Tom

 

[tdubel]

Actually nothing that I said.

Well than I must just be another dumb suthrener who cant read the King's english....................................when you use terms like relegate to a museum, seems sort of synomymous with burial, but I will check my Websters later.

TD

 

[tdubel]

Actually nothing that I said.

Yes, and we can agree to disagree and still be friends. You have a right to your opinion but I think there is a responsibility in an intelligent debate or argument to express it in a civil and fact based manner. If you don't agree with an article or editorial state your reasons and we can all learn from the dialog. For you and Toy Soldier Brigade to say "you wouldn't line your bird cage" with a particular newspaper is tantamount to someone calling your opinion "crap" and you are "stupid". Tell me a newspaper is too liberal or too conservative in their editorials. Tell me you don't like their writing style or a particular artical has its facts wrong and we can debate and learn. Sure, my assumptions about your sources for information could be wrong but I was only trying to illustrate how your affirmation of a juvenile statement makes people suspect of your motivations. Obviously this debate has touched a nerve with you and I think your emotions got the better of you. I am not a shareholder of the NY Times. I agree that it has a liberal slant but I also think they have over the years done some excellent reporting and investigating. There are millions of readers who agree with me so why insult them with a blanket statement if you only meant to disagree with a particular article. I have plenty of friends who don't share my political beliefs but I never say their opinions or sources are crap.
We all can learn from each other and I have altered or changed my opinion when the facts and logic are compelling.
I read their editorials knowing where they lean and I read more liberal and conservative papers understanding their bias. Usually my opinions are somewhere in the middle. My whole argument goes along with other comments on this thread that history may not change but how we view it in an evolving society will alter our opinions. Obviously our experiences are different so we have different perspectives....that is fine with me and I don't take it personally.

I don't really take too much personally at all, but your post was a little overblown and assuming (of my stance/opinions/etc), so that did strike a nerve. That said, I pretty much agree with your post here and you are right, I should have clarified my statement to say, I would not line my birdcage with this particular article from the NYT. Hence, as I said before, I was commenting in context of the thread b/c no matter what and apologies to anyone this offends, my opinion is that particular article is just crap. Now, as for my thoughts on the press, well, you would probably be surprised to find out that I think most of what they do is crap and yes I am down the middle on that one. I think part of the disfunctionality issues we have today are a result of 24hr news networks. Again, that is a whole other debate. I rarely read papers anymore even though I travel for a living b/c I have a hard time finding facts in the articles, it seems like it is all opinion, much like their counterparts on network tv. Again, whole other issue.

TD

 

[jazzeum]

Brad, I used that term metaphorically for my own opinion if you read my whole post, you kind of are taking that out of context! (slightly unfair)

I agree we are one Country, although, I think an argument can be made that we are a divided country on a lot of issues which is a whole other debate that has nothing to do with the Mason Dixon Line!^&grin

Tom

Tom,

I need to have a dig at you before I spend some money with you! :wink2:

I think people may have misinterpreted what Scott may have said although he hasn't helped himself by saying what he exactly meant. I think he was talking about the day when we could relegate a civil war discussion to the history books without passions being inflamed (such as a Cavalier Roundhead discussion).

What Malinowski wrote was so dumb that's it's gotten more attention here than it deserved.

Brad

 

[nysoldiers]

I don't really take too much personally at all, but your post was a little overblown and assuming (of my stance/opinions/etc), so that did strike a nerve. That said, I pretty much agree with your post here and you are right, I should have clarified my statement to say, I would not line my birdcage with this particular article from the NYT. Hence, as I said before, I was commenting in context of the thread b/c no matter what and apologies to anyone this offends, my opinion is that particular article is just crap. Now, as for my thoughts on the press, well, you would probably be surprised to find out that I think most of what they do is crap and yes I am down the middle on that one. I think part of the disfunctionality issues we have today are a result of 24hr news networks. Again, that is a whole other debate. I rarely read papers anymore even though I travel for a living b/c I have a hard time finding facts in the articles, it seems like it is all opinion, much like their counterparts on network tv. Again, whole other issue.

TD

No harm, no foul......thanks for clarifying and frankly I think we agree on more than you think.

 

[Scott]

Well than I must just be another dumb suthrener who cant read the King's english....................................when you use terms like relegate to a museum, seems sort of synomymous with burial, but I will check my Websters later.

TD

I'll write slowly next time.

 

[Scott]

Tom,

I need to have a dig at you before I spend some money with you! :wink2:

I think people may have misinterpreted what Scott may have said although he hasn't helped himself by saying what he exactly meant. I think he was talking about the day when we could relegate a civil war discussion to the history books without passions being inflamed (such as a Cavalier Roundhead discussion).

What Malinowski wrote was so dumb that's it's gotten more attention here than it deserved.

Brad

Right you are.

Brad, In 50 years I won't be here but for my kid's sake I hope that the causes and effects of the Civil War will no longer trouble their lives. Americans hopefully will have learned from it by then plus one or two generations from the War will have passed on. The War, like the Salem Witch Trials and other aberrations will just be considered "interesting." It won't be "dead people's baggage" anymore.