Observations of the State of the Hobby (1 Viewer)

[trooper]

I just checked out Forum viewers on line as we speak at 6:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time: There are 79 viewers in the matte section compared to 14 in the glossy. With respect to total posts, there are about 240,000 matte (including 130,000 for K&C alone) versus about 30,000 glossy.

Pure figures can be misleading. A lot of those 130,000 posts for K&C for example may well be taken up by lengthy chit chat about what type of tank, aircraft or historical period might be produced, plus, of course, endless rhapsody about the latest production. My point is that a few people can generate a lot of entries. When you look at the actual posts the same names crop up repeatedly thus skewing the figures somewhat. Anyway, at the end of the day as long as toy soldiers, or model soldiers if you prefer, still maintain their following does it really matter if they are matt or glossy? Trooper

 

[damian]

I just checked out Forum viewers on line as we speak at 6:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time: There are 79 viewers in the matte section compared to 14 in the glossy. With respect to total posts, there are about 240,000 matte (including 130,000 for K&C alone) versus about 30,000 glossy.

Is it not that the hobby as a whole has grown. Admittedly the Matt side has grown more than the glossy side. So looking at how many collect Matt rather than gloss slightly distorts things. There are many glossy manufacturers out there. Even with the closing of Trophy there seems to be a lot of new activity on the gloss front.. I don't dispute that there are more Matt collectors than glossy ones.

 

[ucla1967]

Pure figures can be misleading. A lot of those 130,000 posts for K&C for example may well be taken up by lengthy chit chat about what type of tank, aircraft or historical period might be produced, plus, of course, endless rhapsody about the latest production. My point is that a few people can generate a lot of entries. When you look at the actual posts the same names crop up repeatedly thus skewing the figures somewhat. Anyway, at the end of the day as long as toy soldiers, or model soldiers if you prefer, still maintain their following does it really matter if they are matt or glossy? Trooper

While pure figures can be misleading, they can also be revealing. I am well aware of the chit chat you are refering to, but I do not believe it can account for the eight to one difference in the number of matte posts versus glossy. The number of viewers might be a better measure of relative interest since it includes non-posting visitors to the Forum, who usually out number members many times over (currently there are 208 on line, of whom 26 are members and 182 are guests). Those numbers indicate a strong preference for matte. At the end of the day, it matters to me if the hobby evolves to the point where major manufactures have all gone to 60mm matte while the 54mm glossy manufacturers are all minor players on the periphery of the hobby whose combined sales might not even be equal to K&C's alone. Our glossy choices will continue to be reduced as this trend continues.

 

[VIRIATO]

While pure figures can be misleading, they can also be revealing. I am well aware of the chit chat you are refering to, but I do not believe it can account for the eight to one difference in the number of matte posts versus glossy. The number of viewers might be a better measure of relative interest since it includes non-posting visitors to the Forum, who usually out number members many times over (currently there are 208 on line, of whom 26 are members and 182 are guests). Those numbers indicate a strong preference for matte. At the end of the day, it matters to me if the hobby evolves to the point where major manufactures have all gone to 60mm matte while the 54mm glossy manufacturers are all minor players on the periphery of the hobby whose combined sales might not even be equal to K&C's alone. Our glossy choices will continue to be reduced as this trend continues.

Probably right, but also probably most gloss manufacturers are pointing to a smaller market niche and have a smaller operation going on, sometimes cottage like, when compared with big matte players like WB or K&C who have Chinese factories working for them, hence both will keep going (hopefully...).

Paulo

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Probably right, but also probably most gloss manufacturers are pointing to a smaller market niche and have a smaller operation going on, sometimes cottage like, when compared with big matte players like WB or K&C who have Chinese factories working for them, hence both will keep going (hopefully...).

Paulo

Hi Paulo,
That is exactly what for me really spoils all....." gloss manufacturers are pointing to a smaller market niche.... with big matte players like WB or K&C who have Chinese factories working for them..." This Chinese factor has done away with our ability to have our imagination flow.....you are stuck with the selections the " big manufacturers decide and live with it.....wereas when you have access to the real artist - the one here catalogued as cottage industries, who have the ability to live the set, decide on small or large change to the set, create one of a kind, figure, Regiment or diorama.........These are the artists, not the stamping manufacturers in mainland China. Imagine how dull will this forum be in the future if all there is left are the mass Chinese outputs......figures will all look alike, no changes, no imagination.......
The Chinese factor has closed many fantastic small UK and Austrailia based businesses, that, if still with us would be making a difference.......
Not advocating getting rid of the mass producers, but I would not like our hobby to turn into a" Henry Ford dream......you can have a car as long as it is a Ford model T and in black......"
Artillery_Crazy

 

[trooper]

With reference to the "big" companies, in terms of size relative to figures AVAILABLE they are comparatively small in comparison to some of the "cottage" industries who never retire items. The lists of some of these run into thousands so the collector need never worry about things becoming unobtainable. Also the smaller companies are much closer to their customers and are in the main prepared to accomodate their individual requirements. Just look at the recent correspondance on the Yeomanry Miniatures thread under More Glossy Manufacturers as an example. The smaller companies prices are on average roughly half the price of the "larger" matt figures and usually do not have the financial ability to spend £6,000 or so every month taking out full page colour adverts in half a dozen magazines, but they are still there and will carry on for a very long time to come. Trooper

 

[Martin Tabony]

I don't think you can gauge the state of the hobby from this site alone. I'm sure Mike is right that on this site, most are collectors of the Chinese made figures. I think it's probable that a lot of the collectors on here only learned about toy soldiers/model figures because of the internet. Believe it or not though there are still collectors that like to write letters, pick up a phone or see the figures in the flesh. If they visit this site at all, they don't comment.
I've also noticed a rise in the number of collectors moving over to "cottage manufacturers", thanks in part to the exposure this site gives.
As to gloss versus matt, most manufacturers I know will happily provide a figure in either finish.

Martin

 

[Artillery_crazy]

I don't think you can gauge the state of the hobby from this site alone. I'm sure Mike is right that on this site, most are collectors of the Chinese made figures. I think it's probable that a lot of the collectors on here only learned about toy soldiers/model figures because of the internet. Believe it or not though there are still collectors that like to write letters, pick up a phone or see the figures in the flesh. If they visit this site at all, they don't comment.
I've also noticed a rise in the number of collectors moving over to "cottage manufacturers", thanks in part to the exposure this site gives.
As to gloss versus matt, most manufacturers I know will happily provide a figure in either finish.

Martin

Martin,
At least on my case, what you have said is this is true!
Land locked in a country that does not have ANY Culture of toy soldier collecting, before the internet my collection would thrive only when someone travelled and took with him a shopping list, or a battery of faxes up and down requesting quotes and only seeing black and white fuzzy pictures, the works......{sm4}{sm2}{sm3}
The internet, then the ability to tap into sites like this one where members from across the world drop in with ideas, photos and comments.........on line auctions, etc. made things more accessible.
Have to say that I am one of those as per your quote...." a lot of the collectors on here only learned about toy soldiers/model figures because of the internet, and this site".....And I need to add, the GREAT PICTURES that the members add of the various fairs and events you visit and kindly share with us........Many are the new sets and information I have obtained from seeing those pictures and then asking you all for advice.
You are also right when you say...." a rise in the number of collectors moving over to "cottage manufacturers", thanks in part to the exposure this site gives."........To list a few, Brian, Ken, you, Mike ( LL), late Craig, JG Miniatures ect.....Otherwise we would be stuck to the China based manufacturers websites and limited to their offerings.....with no customizing, no exchange of ideas and conversation. I would love to be one of those ..... "that pick up a phone or see the figures in the flesh....but distance stops me from that......"
Hence, I conclude that this site is my window to the Worldwide Toy Collector world.
Here I can select to shop from the major manufacturers, or tap into contacts and place an order with a gifted artist in Wales, The Midlands, Australia or Newzealand..... If you are in the UK or US, this may be difficult to understand.....To understand all you need to do is to move out of the mainstream and you will see what I mean....
Artillery_Crazy

Artillery_Crazy

 

[Martin Tabony]

I started before the internet, so I can imagine the difficulty. I've just had a look around Sao Paulo with the help of another "wonder of the computer age" Google Earth!^&grin

Martin

 

[VIRIATO]

Martin,
At least on my case, what you have said is this is true!
Land locked in a country that does not have ANY Culture of toy soldier collecting, before the internet my collection would thrive only when someone travelled and took with him a shopping list, or a battery of faxes up and down requesting quotes and only seeing black and white fuzzy pictures, the works......{sm4}{sm2}{sm3}
The internet, then the ability to tap into sites like this one where members from across the world drop in with ideas, photos and comments.........on line auctions, etc. made things more accessible.
Have to say that I am one of those as per your quote...." a lot of the collectors on here only learned about toy soldiers/model figures because of the internet, and this site".....And I need to add, the GREAT PICTURES that the members add of the various fairs and events you visit and kindly share with us........Many are the new sets and information I have obtained from seeing those pictures and then asking you all for advice.
You are also right when you say...." a rise in the number of collectors moving over to "cottage manufacturers", thanks in part to the exposure this site gives."........To list a few, Brian, Ken, you, Mike ( LL), late Craig, JG Miniatures ect.....Otherwise we would be stuck to the China based manufacturers websites and limited to their offerings.....with no customizing, no exchange of ideas and conversation. I would love to be one of those ..... "that pick up a phone or see the figures in the flesh....but distance stops me from that......"
Hence, I conclude that this site is my window to the Worldwide Toy Collector world.
Here I can select to shop from the major manufacturers, or tap into contacts and place an order with a gifted artist in Wales, The Midlands, Australia or Newzealand..... If you are in the UK or US, this may be difficult to understand.....To understand all you need to do is to move out of the mainstream and you will see what I mean....
Artillery_Crazy

Artillery_Crazy

I very much feel like you do and share the distance feeling. Modelling has always been more of a tradition than collecting here. The Internet allowed me to know and collect. And I also agree on your fascination with «cottage» stuff, especially glossy, although some Chinese made figures are really looking excellent and part of interesting series (like Britains ACW, AZW or WAN, all in matte or most of the FL series). I like the best from both sides, but always have to make tough choices:redface2:... Guess I am about to make some new ones^&grin...

Paulo

 

[Artillery_crazy]

I started before the internet, so I can imagine the difficulty. I've just had a look around Sao Paulo with the help of another "wonder of the computer age" Google Earth!^&grin

Martin

Martin,

If you ever fancy some Tropical climate......you know have a Postal Code to reach out to!

Cheers

Luiz

 

[ucla1967]

I remember going to The Old Toy Soldier Home in Vista, California in 1992. The store did not carry any matte or 60mm figures at that time. I would estimate that the predominant brand carried was Trophy of Wales followed by new Britains, Ducal, Alymer, Mignot, King & Country (glossy 54mm), and several others like America in Miniature. Now, you will basically find a reduced new Britains presence and some Mignots in the store from that list. The predominant manufacturer stocked today is far and away King and Country with others like Figarti in a minor role. You would be hard pressed to find many glossies carried unless they are leftovers or on consignment with the exception of Britains Red Coats and Blue Coats glossy series.

 

[marco55]

Do some of the smaller manufacturers have websites?I am also one has only discovered this hobby through through the internet.
Mark

 

[VIRIATO]

Do some of the smaller manufacturers have websites?I am also one has only discovered this hobby through through the internet.
Mark

Little Legion, Hocker, Somerset, Beau Geste, Fusilier/T. Atkins amongst others have their websites, PM me in case you need any specific help.

Cheers,
Paulo

 

[marco55]

Little Legion, Hocker, Somerset, Beau Geste, Fusilier/T. Atkins amongst others have their websites, PM me in case you need any specific help.

Cheers,
Paulo

Thank you Paulo.
Mark

 

[Artillery_crazy]

Do some of the smaller manufacturers have websites?I am also one has only discovered this hobby through through the internet.
Mark

Now a days, the internet more than ever has helped keep the hobby alive....Just as an example this great site...Were it not for the site I would not have met many great guys and seen great collections....on top of being able to purchase sets and enlarge my collection, contacted many others and started diversifying the sets to one of a kind sets, made at your request......

The one thing that I am very much concerned is the fact that mass manufacturers are "engulfing" small manufacturers/and these are the real artists...not some assembly line in China...The made in China stuff is nice and can add volume to the collection but that means that all collections are now starting to look the same....
The fun ( at least as I see it ) is to be acquainted to some one who can work with you on your special projects,to be able to buy metal kits and decide how you want them painted and or assembled. Assemble them yourself or with the help of a friend ( if you are not as versed on the artistic side of the equation, like myslef )....deciding the Regiment/battle/extras you want to add on etc...
In the past there were many such " metal kit " suppliers....now a days that I know of we have a few only and they are hard to find....The ones I know are in the UK, with pro builders in the UK, US and Australia to name a few, hence with this kind of scenario ahead of us....one more reason why the internet is key in this complex hobby of ours.....
Regards,

Artillery_Crazy ( Luiz)

 

[Poppo]

Now a days, the internet more than ever has helped keep the hobby alive....Just as an example this great site...Were it not for the site I would not have met many great guys and seen great collections....on top of being able to purchase sets and enlarge my collection, contacted many others and started diversifying the sets to one of a kind sets, made at your request......

The one thing that I am very much concerned is the fact that mass manufacturers are "engulfing" small manufacturers/and these are the real artists...not some assembly line in China...The made in China stuff is nice and can add volume to the collection but that means that all collections are now starting to look the same....
The fun ( at least as I see it ) is to be acquainted to some one who can work with you on your special projects,to be able to buy metal kits and decide how you want them painted and or assembled. Assemble them yourself or with the help of a friend ( if you are not as versed on the artistic side of the equation, like myslef )....deciding the Regiment/battle/extras you want to add on etc...
In the past there were many such " metal kit " suppliers....now a days that I know of we have a few only and they are hard to find....The ones I know are in the UK, with pro builders in the UK, US and Australia to name a few, hence with this kind of scenario ahead of us....one more reason why the internet is key in this complex hobby of ours.....
Regards,

Artillery_Crazy ( Luiz)

Interesting point of view Luiz.


At first, I would like to thank you for sharing your giant , original and interesting collection....


And I agree with you about following a project and not just putting together figures proposed by the big manufacturs in a kind of "standard dios".
In my little ( or medium) dios, I also have a precise idea of what I want to have, so I often melt different manufacturers in one dio and I partially repaint some figures or tanks. And I make the landscape by myself with natural materials to give realism.