On The Road To Nuremberg (1 Viewer)

[ccdc11]

We really need a emoji eating popcorn watching something..

 

[tdubel]

This is always a tough discussion and everyone has a point to a certain degree, all are correct, depending on your viewpoint. I choose to understand history through my eyes and that means I have several positions or displays that may offend, ok, so be it. I also am a card carrying member of the Jewish Tribe by marriage, I am of high German descent, my relatives fought on both the Union and the Confederate sides. A Confederate Battle Flag as well as the First National Flag hung for years in my room with pictures of my relatives (both sides) as well as other historic prints. Not a member of the KKK, the flag never meant that to my family but they pilfered its use during the Civil rights movement and turned it from historic symbol or a "symbolic rebel" symbol into a symbol of hate. Well, I don't care b/c that is not what it means to me. I don't care what color, gender, religion, preference you are, it is none of my business and I get annoyed that we see it plastered as an issue every day of our daily lives.

End of day - as has been said, collect what you like, respect other's opinions, don't force your views on others (it goes both ways) and if this would occur, people would agree to disagree and get along! And on top of it all, enjoy the hobby.

And if you are a racist person who collects any toy soldier for that reason whether it be Roman, Nazi, Mongol, Civil War, etc, well, then, I feel sorry for ya, but its your business!

TD

 

[HAWKEYE]

What about the french? I have a column of 120 french imperial guard by trophy up on display and somebody
took offense to that. Hard to believe because there is nothing more prettier that i own. Thank god for king and country and trophy for making my life much more enjoyable.

 

[King & Country]

What about the french? I have a column of 120 french imperial guard by trophy up on display and somebody
took offense to that. Hard to believe because there is nothing more prettier that i own. Thank god for king and country and trophy for making my life much more enjoyable.

While not downplaying those among us who have genuine grievances and differences of opinion it sometimes appears as if half the world today takes offence or finds offensive a whole host of things at the drop of the proverbial hat...
All the best,
Andy.

 

[WesternOutlaw]

Honestly, I think I liked this topic better closed. {sm4}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-mju_gW3c8

 

[Patton]

Andy may redeem himself in the eyes of some members IF he produces something less contentious eg

* 3 x grey panzer 2s

* an FOB version of a British 3 pounder

* a Soviet version of the M3A1 Scout car (Tamiya has done it)

^&grin^&grin^&grin

 

[Patton]

I wont even count the rivets on the Scout car {sm4}

 

[The Military Workshop]

Too late now but you could have told him it was 1812 and they were marching towards Moscow. That would have made it more acceptable if he does not like the French ^&grin

What about the french? I have a column of 120 french imperial guard by trophy up on display and somebody
took offense to that. Hard to believe because there is nothing more prettier that i own. Thank god for king and country and trophy for making my life much more enjoyable.

 

[Patton]

Honestly, I think I liked this topic better closed. {sm4}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-mju_gW3c8

Having watched the video, I'm offended that I can't "like" my own comments.

 

[waynepoo]

They are only toy soldiers nothing more than that...If they offend then don't buy them, simple.

 

[theBaron]

Honestly, I think I liked this topic better closed...

Speaking of which, it would have been nice for the person who closed, and then re-opened, this thread, to have posted a comment explaining why. I thought that was the moderators' usual practice, when closing a thread.

Prost!
Brad

 

[WesternOutlaw]

Hey guys,

This topic has really stirred up some serious thoughts. I shared the silly video to simply add some humor so that we can all take a step back and maybe have a laugh or two.

I don't recommend closing this topic, but rather changing the name to Troubled Road to Nuremberg. {sm4}

I'm sure we can all agree that Andy and his team make some awesome top-notch Toy Soldiers that we have all enjoyed collecting over the years, right? :salute::
(raises both hands inviting K&C fans into a big 'high 5' circle stating who's with me?)

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi all,

It’s been a rather busy time for many of us and normally we would post a comment or warning about how folks should behave but that wasn’t done so here it is. Yes we all have strong feelings about various subjects but there is no need to be rude to members simply because they like something better than you. The era we are looking at is a very controversial subject to many people myself included. But I try to retain my decorum and calmly discuss this period of time. So please refrain from posting if it disturbs you that much and simply ignore the thread or you will end up in the cooler for continuing to be rude.

Dave

 

[tdubel]

To add a few pertinent comments. People's history and experiences are also a great influence on this subject and looking at the Nazi's in particular, factually, they are offensive. I believe you would be hard pressed to argue that their ideals and what they stood for was just. In plain words, it just is not. That said, I do believe in preserving, remembering and studying history. I also believe in the right to collect them, that is always a to each his own. If you are going to accurately portray history in miniature, they have a place. They do stir disgust as WW2 was less than a century ago, albeit a few, there are folks still alive who experienced it or its aftermath and frankly the wounds are still there. Additionally, in today's world, you still have people (Including US Politicians) and entire countries that deny the Holocaust ever occurred, so it is an issue. Arguably, Anti Semitism is on the rise, its an issue and hence may generate statements, opinions that are more about that, then the miniature soldiers being made. I have a lot of friends who actively collect militaria with German stuff being the most in demand and valuable. They are collectors of militaria, they don't look at the pieces as glorification but I am positive some people look at them in disgust.

It is just a tough road and in my opinion Andy has done a good a job as he can to put these pieces in context. They are a "warning in miniature". Additionally, you have to deliver product that sells and these obviously do. I would like to think the reason they sell is b/c at heart collectors are historians and they collect the era they collect in its entirety. History happened, you either study and learn from it or you stay ignorant. As an aside, if you have the chance to visit the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C., I encourage you to do so, it is done in a very frank and factual manner so much so that I do believe it has offended people who have visited. Their response - "Good, you need to understand history as it happened, not a sugar coated variety". I applaud them as if you didn't understand what a tragedy and horrific time before you visited, the education that you will receive will certainly drive it home in a very well done factual manner.

TD

 

[nysoldiers]

I have collected "toy soldiers" for over 60 years. I have supported many manufacturers with my purchases and recommendations. I have been a customer of K&C almost since their inception and anyone who has viewed my collection knows that i have thousands of their figures and vehicles.
I collect because I love history, the artistry of the figures and vehicles and admittedly it connects me with my childhood. I have used my collection to teach history to my children, grandchildren and their friends. I have donated dioramas to museums, schools and libraries for teaching purposes.
I don't tell people what or what not to collect but I do have opinions and concerns that I communicate respectfully on this forum. When we stop listening and stop being empathetic then we condemn ourselves to possible insults and antagonisms.

Simply put I have experienced vicious Anti-Semitism including physical violence, verbal abuse and Nazi symbols. I have relatives who were murdered and brutalized by the Nazis during WWII.
More importantly this is a contemporary issue not something that happened hundreds or thousands of years ago. According to the SPLC, the ADL and the Law Center hate crimes and membership in Neo-Nazi and White Supremest groups are growing at a rate not seen for decades.
Swastikas are being painted on places of worship, schools, cemeteries and private homes.

Let's remember that young, impressionable children view our collections, forums and Facebook. Its easy to explain a battle diorama....the good guys against the bad guys. But viewing Nazis on parade and rallies with Hitler and his henchman saluting is harder to explain.

I know there are collectors who have no bad intentions. They like the uniforms, the pageantry and are fascinated with this period of history. I think we have to be careful in how we represent this part of our hobby. I am not saying these figures should be banned and I am not condemning those who
collect for legitimate reasons.
Perhaps K&C, TCS, TGM and others could add the following statements along with their promotional dioramas and catalogs:
"We make these for historical reference only and do not endorse or condone the use of these figures for propaganda, hate mongering or the glorification of this evil regime".

Enough said, I have given my opinion and will continue to enjoy this great hobby.

 

[Julie]

Thread closed indefinitely. There is nothing else that needs to be said on this topic.
Initially I closed it but I was on my way out the door to a meeting that I could not be late for. There are times when life is very busy!

Julie