Opinions on Chicago Show 2013 (2 Viewers)

[gk5717]

This was my 22nd consecutive Chicago Show. Had a great time as usual meeting and talking with fellow TF members and other collectors I met thru out the years.
Let me qualify this by saying I did not attend the actual Sunday Show, have not done that for the last 10 years, but it seems to me the room trading days were way down.
After 6PM Thursday and Friday just about nothing going on. During the day, Thur., Fri, & Sat. a little better but nothing like in the past.
I know we are all getting older, one veteren attendee even joked that there were way more "walkers", "wheelchairs" in the hall ways than in other years.
It just seemed to me there was no "wow" factor this year.
I know one major dealer as of late saturday was crying the blues in regards to sales and questioning if it was worth all that was involved to attend this show.
I don,t want this to be a downer, but could this show be on the slide so to speak as being the worlds best toy soldier show or is it the hobby itself loosing something.
I still plan to attend next year and many years after that, but I would like the true opinion of other people who have attended.
Having said all of the above, OTSN is still my favorite days of the year.
Gary

 

[jazzeum]

Gary,

I think the Show may be on the slide, as you mentioned. The one thing that stood out to me was the line waiting to get into the Show on Sunday, which starts at 10. At around 9am, I was talking to Steven near where the crowd lines up and there was no one or very few people on line. In years past, the line would have been out the door (it's a healty distance from the hotel entrance to the show entrance). That's the reason you buy the early bird (so you can get in before anyone else; I basically wasted $30). I was shocked by how small the line was. Things did start to pick up around 10 but I think it's a tell tale sign.

My perception, right or wrong, is that the Show is not properly promoted. I know that the Nevilles did a heck of a bang up when they used to run the London Show and that K & C does a great job with the Texas Show. However, I don't know if this is happening with the Chicago Show.

Brad

 

[sammy719]

This was my 22nd consecutive Chicago Show. Had a great time as usual meeting and talking with fellow TF members and other collectors I met thru out the years.
Let me qualify this by saying I did not attend the actual Sunday Show, have not done that for the last 10 years, but it seems to me the room trading days were way down.
After 6PM Thursday and Friday just about nothing going on. During the day, Thur., Fri, & Sat. a little better but nothing like in the past.
I know we are all getting older, one veteren attendee even joked that there were way more "walkers", "wheelchairs" in the hall ways than in other years.
It just seemed to me there was no "wow" factor this year.
I know one major dealer as of late saturday was crying the blues in regards to sales and questioning if it was worth all that was involved to attend this show.
I don,t want this to be a downer, but could this show be on the slide so to speak as being the worlds best toy soldier show or is it the hobby itself loosing something.
I still plan to attend next year and many years after that, but I would like the true opinion of other people who have attended.
Having said all of the above, OTSN is still my favorite days of the year.
Gary

Hi Gary,

I haven't attended any past Chicago shows, but there seem to be very little buzz leading up to it this year and afterwards, and other then Brad, Carlos, posting photos here on the forum not much else, I know I sound like a broken record here but the fellows in the UK cover the London shows so well with so many variety of pictures/as well as the show itself, with the Chicago show being the biggest/best in the world I would think there would be more input??, but I guess I need to get off the pot and get to a Chicago show myself, maybe next year...Sammy

 

[damian]

Three days sounds a bit long to me. The benefit of these shows is not really to see the big names (K and C, WB< FL CS and JJ) I think those guys are well covered on the net and it seems that the more intimate meet and greets are where the future is.
What is great about London and Chicago is the lesser know home industry type manufacturers (in the US it is WM Hocker and Somerset and in the UK Little Legion, ATS, Dorset etc).
Shipping toy soldiers around North America with the massive distances involved just to unpack and then repack sounds a bit problematic.
I have only been to the London Show and if I go to another one it will be London but i did enjoy it.

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

Interesting points on the advertising for the show. I am not sure how much they do to promote the show to the general public. I know that there is plenty of ads in the trade magazines but not sure where else they would be placed. Would be interesting to see what the folks who run the show have to say on this topic.

As for what Damian mentioned perhaps the amount of time needed to cover the room trading etc is too much for many people these days due to the larger issues of the US economy, which is no where near where it should be at least that was my observation this past summer while I was home. Hard to say for sure Maybe the one day event in London is the way to go but I know I could have used two days to really cover everything in the detail I would have liked and it would have been great to get a chance to chat with the guys for longer there as well!

I am certainly interested in hearing what the others in attendance have to say on this topic.

Dave

 

[sammy719]

Hi Guys,

Interesting points on the advertising for the show. I am not sure how much they do to promote the show to the general public. I know that there is plenty of ads in the trade magazines but not sure where else they would be placed. Would be interesting to see what the folks who run the show have to say on this topic.

As for what Damian mentioned perhaps the amount of time needed to cover the room trading etc is too much for many people these days due to the larger issues of the US economy, which is no where near where it should be at least that was my observation this past summer while I was home. Hard to say for sure Maybe the one day event in London is the way to go but I know I could have used two days to really cover everything in the detail I would have liked and it would have been great to get a chance to chat with the guys for longer there as well!

I am certainly interested in hearing what the others in attendance have to say on this topic.

Dave

I am curious as well Dave to know why the London shows aren't more then 1 day?? they seem to be a good amount of foot traffic (from the photos I have seen) and alot of tables to put up for such a short amount of time?? as far as the advertising for Chicago I get 2-3 different toy soldier mags and they do a fair amount of ink for the show, so not sure why the slow down as Brad, and others have mentioned...Sammy

 

[theBaron]

Advertizing is a weak point for our show, too, and there is a debate raging over what we should do. I and a couple other members are in favor of ads in the toy soldier and figure magazines, for visibility, but I'm also working on a press kit, that we can give to area papers, from the Inquirer to the smaller, local papers. Practically every paper has a weekend guide or other billboard section, listing events, and they're free. We just never thought about doing it. And our website is such a klooge, I'm thinking of creating a Facebook page to supplement it, because it would be easier to maintain.

Regarding vendors having good or bad shows, I can think of a couple of vendors who will tell you that if you have something people want, you'll do well, regardless of the other conditions. Those vendors have good shows, wherever I see them.

But that aside, I'm glad everyone seems to have enjoyed himself again this year, judging from your posts. And thanks all, for the pics!

Prost!
Brad

 

[wds0855]

Advertizing is a weak point for our show, too, and there is a debate raging over what we should do. I and a couple other members are in favor of ads in the toy soldier and figure magazines, for visibility, but I'm also working on a press kit, that we can give to area papers, from the Inquirer to the smaller, local papers. Practically every paper has a weekend guide or other billboard section, listing events, and they're free. We just never thought about doing it. And our website is such a klooge, I'm thinking of creating a Facebook page to supplement it, because it would be easier to maintain.

Regarding vendors having good or bad shows, I can think of a couple of vendors who will tell you that if you have something people want, you'll do well, regardless of the other conditions. Those vendors have good shows, wherever I see them.

But that aside, I'm glad everyone seems to have enjoyed himself again this year, judging from your posts. And thanks all, for the pics!

Prost!
Brad

Brad, have you thought about posting on craigslist? It's free and they have an events section for each major city
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/eve/
I have sold a lot of household items on cragislist so i know it gets used.
Just a suggesstion.
Walt

 

[Toy Soldier Brigade]

I wasn't at the show, but I think this issue is ongoing in a lot of different hobbies and I have really noticed it in the one sixth world. I know there have been times when I was going to attend a toy soldier show and thought I really don't need anything now and if I did I can get it online. When I do attend a show I am always trying to figure out how it can possibly be profitable for a large dealer to even make money. Especially when the average show is only one day for just six hours. After you load a truck, which many dealers seem to rent just for the show. Then drive many hours to get there. Plus pay for your truck rental, gas, tolls, motel, food, beer, and table fees. Then unload and have to reload all your goods. I can't even imagine having to unpack and pack all of those figures back into their boxes. Plus any damages from people picking them up. Then have to drive all the way home and have to unpack it all again !

My customers are always asking if I ever attend any shows. I have to explain to them the expense just is not worth it. I couldn't possibly bring over two thousand different items to a show. Just the nightmare of inventory reconciliation alone would make me crazy. Why go through all of that when I can sit on my couch on a Sunday watch the games and listen to my iPad alert me to incoming orders. I feel for some of those dealers that don't have a strong web presence. In this day and age I don't know how a business can survive with out it.

 

[kogu]

Last Thursday morning I got up at 5:30 (didn't even need an alarm clock ^&grin) and by 6:00 I was in my car and on the way to Chicago.
Arrived there around noon, and after checking in, I went straight to the two floors of room-trading for a first impression.

Well, the first impression was that there was significantly less traffic on those floors than at any previous shows.
On my way to Chicago I got into really bad weather twice (extremely heavy rain) and I heard from other visitor about issues with weather that day.
Even flights were delayed.
So I blamed the lesser traffic at the room trading on weather conditions, causing issues for travelers. I was sure that it would pick up on Friday.

Came Friday, and me having all day to walk around there, I thought that attendance was still lower and that carried on into Saturday.

Not sure about the reasons, but economic issues, the age of many collectors, and the hassle of traveling compared to the convenience of online ordering are possible reasons among others.

The main reason for me to visit, was to meet with friends, the gathering and discussing anything Toy Soldiers.
Had my main purchases pre-ordered and just picked them up at the show.
The advantage of that was, that the figures could be inspected right away, so no hassles to deal with in case there were issues with one.

On Sunday morning I was up and getting ready to drive home, and then came the biggest surprise when I went down to the lobby to check out.
It was just at the time when normally the line was formed to get into the show, and this year there was none {eek3}
Guess that the people who were there to visit were allowed in already.
Normally the show opens to the general public at 10:00.
I was in the lobby at 9:30 and on my last visit in 2011 the line went all the way along the good sized lobby and even made an angle so people would not have to wait outside.

Yes, attendance of the show and the room trading was much lower than it used to be.
Next year I will go again, if I can, and will enjoy it just as much as I did this year, but it's a bit of a scary thought to see this development

On another note, the Indianapolis Show in spring this year, was in my opinion only a fraction of what it used to be.
So who knows how the Shows will be doing in the future?
I hope they stay around for us and hopefully a few new collectors.
The average age of collectors is rapidly shifting to the later part of life.

Cheers!

Konrad

 

[ucla1967]

Although I have not attended the Chicago Show for several years, I have attended it 17 times since 1993 and have also attended the West Coaster 21 times in that period. I don't think that there is any question that attendance has been down at the West Coaster and that there has been a dramatic decrease in foot traffic during room trading which I have participated in for about 12 years. Clearly, our hobby is seeing an aging of the collector population which is not being replaced by younger collectors on a one for one basis. In addition, the economic downturn that we experienced has been detrimental to our hobby since some collectors don't have the same disposable income they once had. Finally, the internet has made a huge impact on how collectors buy toy soldiers making it possible to buy from home without ever having to attend a show or visit a brick and mortar shop.

 

[gk5717]

I was hopeing that maybe my observation about OTSN was off. Sounds like I was spot on.. The bad thing about this is that it perpetuates it,s self. Meaning low attendance this year, I,ll just skip next year. Dealers, bad sales this year, not worth the trouble next year, I won,t set up.
I don,t think the economy plays a big part. Shows from 08 thru last year were fine and the economy was much worse those years.
My personal opinion is that the regulars are flat out getting OLD and there is not a lot of new blood.
Other people on this forum have commented on the show, includeing room trading, being to long. Room trading for 3 and 4 days are what makes this show so much fun.
As for advertising, if you collect toy soldiers you know about OTSN. I don,t think that has much bearing at all. Word of mouth in the collecting community should suffice.
Next year should say it all. If as bad or worse than this year, there could be trouble in paradise!
I will say this about attending, I found enough bargains, prices I paid at the show compared to what I would have had to pay online, it paid for my gas to and from the show (5 hour drive) and my food for the 3 days. Plus I had enough hotel points that my 3 night hotel bill was just $32.
Sure hope this years OTSN was an exception.
Gary

 

[HAWKEYE]

Having gone to ostn since 1995 i can see some changes. After 911 the room trading traffic has decreased each year. You don't see little legion , ats or kc uk and others across the pond like you used to. There also used to be more excitement when manufacturers like king and country used to unviel never before seen dios like the hartenstein hotel as well as new product. On the otherhand you have events like the treefrog dinner that we never had before and are fabulous. Also a lot of dealers are doing as well as they ever have been. I had not attended the sunday show in 10 yrs before yesterday and i must say it was alot busier than i thought it would be. I didn't see any advertising in the chicago papers friday or saturday. A little more adverstising would help. So there has been good and less desirable trends but the one thing great thing about the show is meeting all the great people in the hobby which is the one thing that won't change. Seeing all the anticipation on peoples faces as they hunt for their treasues and than talking about that days chase is always fun. So if you haven't been before try to make it next year for all the fun

 

[jazzeum]

One of the reasons I go to OTSN is for the people. I just don't get to see people like Greg, Rick Wang, Steven Chong, Shannon, Andy, Gordon, Ken and Ericka Osen, Gary (and even Louis, although he's only an hour away) but once a year. Moreover, if you're looking for retired items (for me it's Trophy), shows like these are a must.

For many sellers I think a show like OTSN must be similar to the department stores during the Christmas season: those sales make up a good portion of thier income for the year.

I think promotion is a must: you don't want to attract people who already collect but those who don't. For example, someone (maybe Carlos) posted an interview that Andy did with one of the San Antonio stations for the Texas Show where he showed off some of the figures. Good public relations is essential. With a show like this I would hope that one of the Chicago stations and newspapers know about it. Heck, this is supposed to be the show of the year, the place to be. Let's treat it as such and get the word out.

I can't remember how many kids I saw yesterday but as I was getting ready to leave I saw two young kids, with mouthes wide open and large eyes looking at the displays that the manufacturers had. The media can play a part by getting kids to convince their parents to bring them to the Show.

Brad

 

[BLReed]

.......The media can play a part by getting kids to convince their parents to bring them to the Show.

Sure. Then when they get there those with deep pockets can buy a single figure for $70. Or they can
go to WalMart and buy a whole bag for ten bucks. Also video games only run about $50 or they can rent,
trade with friends and etc. Newcomers are priced out of the market. I'll bet high roller regular attendees spent
far less than they did five years ago. Some places the economy is getting slightly better, but Chicago isn't
one of them. Take note: "The unemployment rate across Chicago, Joliet and Naperville now stands at 9.7 percent,
up 0.3 percent from July 2012. Illinois has one of the highest unemployment rates in the nation at 9.2 percent."

Compare to the San Antonio Show: San Antonio's jobless rate slid to 5.8 percent in August from 6 percent in July.
Texas' jobless rate meanwhile dipped slightly for the first time in months in August, to 6.4. Both San Antonio and
Texas fared better than the nation, which reported an unemployment rate of 7.3 percent in August.

I'll say again........Newcomers are priced out of the market. Let's not rationalize.:salute::

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

This is a sure, tell-tale sign that toy soldiers have gone beyond a level in pricing that is reasonable for a majority of collectors. Also, without younger collectors entering the market (and good luck getting parents to encourage their kids into this hobby at current prices!!!), stress on the hobby will be felt in the years ahead. There will be a lot of product for sale and prices will drop more on the secondary market. Don't buy to speculate on higher future prices because that is highly unlikely. It is more likely that current prices will be cut in half on the secondary market in the future especially of bigger toy soldier companies that issue a lot of product into the marketplace. It doesn't really matter if they retire items periodically because most people can't have everything... {eek3}

Other than one era that I have been waiting patiently to collect for a very long time, I have pretty much completed my collecting and will be enjoying what I have. :salute::

 

[theBaron]

One of the reasons I go to OTSN is for the people. I just don't get to see people like Greg, Rick Wang, Steven Chong, Shannon, Andy, Gordon, Ken and Ericka Osen, Gary (and even Louis, although he's only an hour away) but once a year.

That's a very good point, Brad, and I feel the same way, about every show I get to. We have instant contact, 24/7, via the Internet, but it doesn't replace getting to see everyone in person, collectors and dealers. Even if I don't buy anything at show, I like seeing old friends in the hobby.

Prost!
Brad

 

[Peter Reuss]

It's ironic that we are having this conversion...on the internet.

There was a day when shows were the way to announce new things...to get the word out...to connect with other collectors. All of those things happen on a daily basis on the internet.

Collectors used to have to wait for a show to see what wares were available. Now they just go to a couple web sites and see it all.

Collectors used to only really be able to talk toy soldiers when show day rolled around. Now they come onto a forum and chat daily.

Collectors used to only see really cool dioramas at shows. Now they see pictures posted every day.

Let's face it, the net has changed the way that toy soldier collectors act. It's not 'good' or 'bad,' it's just different. Using toy shows as a barometer of the health of a hobby is a bit misplaced.

Many younger collectors are not in a position to take time off of work and travel across the country. They would rather use those dollars for a few more sets.

This isn't to say there is anything wrong with shows...I still think OTSN provides a wonderful venue for connecting, showing off products, and having a beer with a fellow collector. It's a fabulous event that we wouldn't miss for the world. I'm already looking forward to 2014!!

 

[Raider]

I have been attending this show since 2005,my observation is that if people only go to the shows to see other collectors and have a beer,then to me its a no brainer that the show will fizzle out.You have dealers coming from the west coast and the east coast and all points between.If no one is supporting them and buying their product,at some point they are going to say forget it,it's not worth the expense!

 

[kogu]

I have been attending this show since 2005,my observation is that if people only go to the shows to see other collectors and have a beer,then to me its a no brainer that the show will fizzle out.You have dealers coming from the west coast and the east coast and all points between.If no one is supporting them and buying their product,at some point they are going to say forget it,it's not worth the expense!

I don't think that is the way it's going.
When people say that the primary reason for the show is visiting and meeting with friends, they are still doing their purchases.
But in today's time purchases can be easily made at any time of the day and from pretty much anywhere by the use of the internet.
The collectors that are going to a show will, of course, buy figures, some of them more some of them less.
But the additional value of a show or an actual brick and mortar store is that you can meet people eye to eye and talk with them, real talk not typed on a keyboard ^&grin
And that's the reason why a lot of people say that the meeting with collectors is the primary event of a show.
Purchases are still made, I am very sure.
Cheers!

Konrad