Opinions on Chicago Show 2013 (1 Viewer)

[Warrior]

Konrad said it best; forget about getting kids into the hobby.

Kids lose interest once they turn 16, learn to drive a car, learn that beer and other forms of adult beverages taste good and learn all about women, need I say more.

We need people in their mid to late 30's and early 40's who are established in their careers and have some disposable income, end of story.

Right now the segment of the job market that's thriving is government workers, which explains why the shows in VA are usually good ones, connect the dots and you'll have your answer.

As I was driving home, I was recalling all the customers I've gotten to know at OTSN who weren't there this year or haven't been there the past few years, not to mention the ones I did see who came to my room and bought next to nothing.

I think the shows have become less important to collectors with the ease of internet shopping and the huge amount of information now available at their fingertips.

I do have a segment of customers who shop only at the shows as they want to see the items in person before buying, but the vast majority of my sales come off of my website.

The volume of phone and email orders that came in during the show was about equal to the amount of business I did at the show.

Pretty amazing.

 

[Sahara]

Hmmmm.....all this himmming an hawging about the decline of the hobby, high prices, low attendance etc....etc. just seems to go on an on. This hobby is what it is. We have been complaining about high prices time and time again for how many years now????? What we say sure is heck isn't having any influence on the manufacturers price decisions so why continue to beat a dead horse. I hate to say it but if you don't like the prices then don't buy it. The prospect of bringing youth into the hobby is so far fetched that its just funny to suggest anymore. Two years ago I took my son to his first Chicago show and thought to myself that I wanted to get him started on a collection of his own. Under no pressure from dad I let him pick exactly what he wanted. He worked his way from table to table all wide eyed and astonished at all the terrific toy soldiers that were surrounding him. We went from the brilliantly painted red coats of Britains Zulu war to the FL jungles of the Mekong Delta but in the end we landed in the cold harsh winter of the eastern front where he selected 2 K&C red army figures. A quick $80 later and my son was on his way to a collection of his own. So I thought? With that in mind I now take into the mind of a 10 year old.

Yup that's right, pushed way in the back of his closet behind bones is those 2 K&C figures he was so excited about the day of the show. I asked him what in the world those figures were doing in the back of his closet and he simply said I got bored with them. Bored???? What, I don't understand he loves history, loves war movies etc...... He then said I got tired of looking at them on my dresser knowing that I can't play with them. What fun is that. From a 35 yr old I see nothing wrong with that at all but from a 10 year olds perspective I get it. I then looked around and this is what I saw.



Kids aren't gonna buy the Britains, K&Cs, FLs etc..... Yeah, they think they look cool but if they can't play with them then its inevitable that they will end up on a shelf somewhere tucked away into a dark corner. I think the best thing we can do as parents, grandparents or anyone with kids in their lives is simply support any interest they have in military history. If that means buying them $1 packs of little green men that they can play with from the dollar store as opposed to the $40 figure who just sits there then do it. Watching my kid play with his armies of 1/72 plastics and his gaming figures (those are those grey figures. They are hot with kids now adays) kinda puts things into perspective because I look at him and I see myself 25-30yrs ago. Eventually the chips will fall into place and I get that feeling from him that he will want high end figures once he gets past his 20s and early 30s^&grin
Man o man I wish I was at the show this year because when I hear low attendance my eyes just light up and all I can think about is all the deals I probably missed out on. I don't think anyone should over react about 1 year of low attendance. The show I attended 2 years ago had several people in the halls checking out the various rooms and buying up the early deals. The show itself (2 years ago) was a hit IMO and had a very, very , very long line to get in. Good thing I got one of those early admittance passes because I was late coming down to the lobby and it would have been brutal standing in that line.

 

[Dragoon]

The hobby is far from being in decline, there seems to be more makers and variety of product than ever before. The internet has made a huge difference in the way things are marketed in the hobby - making it quite easy to be aware of what's new, and to make a purchase at the slightest whim from the comfort of our own home.

Went to the show again this year, this time for the Sunday show event only. I walked around, made a few purchases, and left rather unenthused - not with toy soldier collecting, but with the whole show experience. For me the OTSN show has grown old and tired, held again in the same old and tired venue.
Images of this year's London Show looked quite impressive in its new digs - bright, open and modern - all things lacking in the old Schaumburg Hyatt. IMO the 'Chicago' show could use some freshening up, big-time.

 

[jazzeum]

The Hyatt has to be one of the worst hotels and nothing to do with its staff (who do a great job) but the design. It's awful for room trading. I think the leadership of the Show could use some new blood. First order of business should be to change hotels.

 

[Warrior]

For me the OTSN show has grown old and tired, held again in the same old and tired venue.
Images of this year's London Show looked quite impressive in its new digs - bright, open and modern - all things lacking in the old Schaumburg Hyatt. IMO the 'Chicago' show could use some freshening up, big-time.

The hotel underwent a massive, mega expensive renovation several years ago. It's unique floor design is perfect for room trading, can't imagine another hotel having a similar layout. Not to mention the parking lot is gigantic, a lot of the hotels I do shows at have horrible parking situations, customers drive round and round looking for spots at some of them.

I've heard horror stories about the venue for the London show, the load in for vendors is nothing short of a nightmare, plus parking in the area is mega expensive.

I think the OTSN contract runs through 2015, not sure what will happen after that, ie, if it will remain at that hotel.

If it doesn't, be careful what you wish for.

 

[Hoverbug]

Right now the segment of the job market that's thriving is government workers, which explains why the shows in VA are usually good ones, connect the dots and you'll have your answer.

Speaking as one government worker who has bought from you in the past at VA shows, I can say those days are officially over. Now that I'm furloughed (not to mention whatever shutdown occurs), collecting is far from my mind.

 

[jazzeum]

Yes, the hotel is probably not the perfect place but I'm not losing that much sleep over it because I look forward to the Show each year, a chance to get away and have fun. As Andy said, thinking, breathing, seeing and talking toy soldiers for three or four days straight with good friends. Hello, what's wrong with that picture? {eek3}

Just as an example, I never get a chance to talk to Pat Wade or Konrad except at the Show. Actually, I was getting a little worried; I never saw them apart ^&grin

It's also a temporary distraction from the pressure and stresses we're subjected to in our daily lives. Again, what could be wrong with that?


Everybody seems to put down kids but they are the future. Obviously you're not going to buy them a FL piece but if you don't get them involved in some way, yes, the hobby will suffer.

Brad

 

[Dragoon]

The hotel underwent a massive, mega expensive renovation several years ago. It's unique floor design is perfect for room trading, can't imagine another hotel having a similar layout. Not to mention the parking lot is gigantic, a lot of the hotels I do shows at have horrible parking situations, customers drive round and round looking for spots at some of them.

I've heard horror stories about the venue for the London show, the load in for vendors is nothing short of a nightmare, plus parking in the area is mega expensive.

I think the OTSN contract runs through 2015, not sure what will happen after that, ie, if it will remain at that hotel.

If it doesn't, be careful what you wish for.

Well, to each his own. George, you're seeing this from a vender's point of view, and mine is that from a show patron. The floor design is certainly 'unique', but why it is perfect for room trading is beyond me. The lighting and air flow in Sunday's main show rooms and hallways is inconsistent and a mess to navigate. As far as parking goes, any major NEW hotel in Chicago's west suburbs is built with huge parking lots surrounding them. - Maybe the old Hyatt stays attractive to promoter and venders because of cost, I don't know. But I believe it no longer provides enough to keep the show fresh and to attract a large number of collectors.

If no big changes are made with OTSN show itself, I'm afraid it will die a slow death with fewer and fewer collectors attending with the intent of making many purchases.

 

[Dragoon]

Yes, the hotel is probably not the perfect place but I'm not losing that much sleep over it because I look forward to the Show each year, a chance to get away and have fun. As Andy said, thinking, breathing, seeing and talking toy soldiers for three or four days straight with good friends. Hello, what's wrong with that picture? {eek3}

Just as an example, I never get a chance to talk to Pat Wade or Konrad except at the Show. Actually, I was getting a little worried; I never saw them apart ^&grin

It's also a temporary distraction from the pressure and stresses we're subjected to in our daily lives. Again, what could be wrong with that?


Everybody seems to put down kids but they are the future. Obviously you're not going to buy them a FL piece but if you don't get them involved in some way, yes, the hobby will suffer.

Brad

Sounds like a great social gathering, but the real purpose of the show - the main reason for the venders to show up, is to sell product. If that falls off, and it's not profitable for the venders to attend, we'll all need to look elsewhere for some temporary distraction.

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

If there is no effort to get more kids involved in this hobby, the hobby will decline... I believe we are seeing that already. The only reason that I am in this hobby at all today, collecting expensive metal figures, is because of my interest in history and the fact that I had parents that encouraged me to pursue this interest by supplying me with plastic figures (Britains swoppets at the time) to develop it in my youth. The main part of my interest in "collecting" figures today is "nostalgic". If it wasn't for that, I very much doubt I would be spending big bucks for metal figures today, even when I was buying figures for half of todays prices only a few years ago. More likely, I would just be reading books to satisfy my history appetite. Don't discount the "nostalgic" side of collecting as I think it is an important aspect for a lot of us. With the current level of pricing more and more "seasoned" collectors have been cutting back in purchases for a variety of reasons. Without a follow-on group of collectors to carry the tradition, this hobby is looking grim... There may be little that can be done about it with current pricing prohibitive and the younger generation pursuing other interests that did not exist in our day to satisfy their free time... {eek3}

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

Oh, and yes, I forgot about and did not collect anything for a very long period of time between entering high school and long after entering the workforce as I pursued other interests but it was the nostalgic aspect that brought me back in 3 decades later... If I didn't have that prior base of a collection, I would have never started collecting again!

 

[Warrior]

Speaking as one government worker who has bought from you in the past at VA shows, I can say those days are officially over. Now that I'm furloughed (not to mention whatever shutdown occurs), collecting is far from my mind.

Sorry to hear that, best of luck to you in the future.

At the show I was talking to a customer who's been to a few of the East Coast shows and notices more activity there, he pointed out the government segment of the work force is growing, which appears not to be true...............

 

[Warrior]

Well, to each his own. George, you're seeing this from a vender's point of view, and mine is that from a show patron. The floor design is certainly 'unique', but why it is perfect for room trading is beyond me. The lighting and air flow in Sunday's main show rooms and hallways is inconsistent and a mess to navigate. As far as parking goes, any major NEW hotel in Chicago's west suburbs is built with huge parking lots surrounding them. - Maybe the old Hyatt stays attractive to promoter and venders because of cost, I don't know. But I believe it no longer provides enough to keep the show fresh and to attract a large number of collectors.

If no big changes are made with OTSN show itself, I'm afraid it will die a slow death with fewer and fewer collectors attending with the intent of making many purchases.

I've stayed in a lot of hotels over the past 17 years of traveling to shows and have never seen a layout like this one has. I imagine from time to time if the show were held in some of those hotels and I just don't see it, they're not big enough or else you'd have vendors on six floors and some wouldn't see a customer for hours at a time.

I don't know the other hotels in the Chicago area, so I'll defer to you, I also don't walk around the floor the day of the show (am a wee bit busy starting at 5:00am trying to get set up by 10:00am), so I'll also defer to you as far as lighting and air flow.

As far as cost, this show is by far the most expensive one for me to do, three rooms for five nights, four days of travel to and from the show, van rental for a week, food, gas and tolls, plus the show tables on Sunday, if it were moved to a newer, fancier hotel with higher room rates, it could be a deal breaker. I like it there and think they do a good job of dealing with all the vendors and they wants and needs, not sure if another hotel would be willing to put up with us for a week.......................

 

[Warrior]

Oh, and yes, I forgot about and did not collect anything for a very long period of time between entering high school and long after entering the workforce as I pursued other interests but it was the nostalgic aspect that brought me back in 3 decades later... If I didn't have that prior base of a collection, I would have never started collecting again!

Nostalgia is what brought 95% of the collectors back into the hobby in the 50 to 60 year old age bracket.

As a kid, I had all sorts of toy soldiers from Marx, Britains, MPC, Timpo, Airfix, etc, etc, so did all of my friends, we all had toys as kids, played with them as kids, then they got either packed away or tossed once we entered high school.

I got back into the hobby in my late 20's all as the result of a phone call from my cousin, he and I were big into Airfix ho/oo figures as a kid, his call prompted me to dig out my soldiers as they were in my parents attic.

As you said, the nostalgic wave hit me, they resparked my interest in them by looking at them and off I went collecting again.

The problem today is there are no toy soldiers in Woolworths, The five and dime, Sanco Toys, Grants, Filene's, Macy's, Jordan Marsh, Kresge's, Bradlees, Child World, Kings, Sparks; why, because just about all of them are out of business, you can't find toy soldiers in stores anymore, you can hardly find TOYS anymore, kids today are all into electronic gadgets, not toys.

All the hobby shops I visited as a kid are all gone too, so how do you get kids today into a hobby that is not readily available for them? It's a different world today and kids have different interests than I did as a kid. I used to buy boxed ho/oo sets for 69 cents, 89 cents, I remember I almost fainted when they went up to 1.19 per box. Ho/oo sets today are 10.00, 12.00, 15.00, 18.00, it's crazy when you think of it.

The problem as I see it is 20 years from now, the 30 year olds will have no nostalgic ties to toy soldiers as they don't have them now, they'll be into vintage Ipads, Ipods, laptops, desktops, tablets, etc, etc as those are what THEY had as kids.

It is what it is.......................

 

[HistoryfortheAges]

Nostalgia is what brought 95% of the collectors back into the hobby in the 50 to 60 year old age bracket.

As a kid, I had all sorts of toy soldiers from Marx, Britains, MPC, Timpo, Airfix, etc, etc, so did all of my friends, we all had toys as kids, played with them as kids, then they got either packed away or tossed once we entered high school.

I got back into the hobby in my late 20's all as the result of a phone call from my cousin, he and I were big into Airfix ho/oo figures as a kid, his call prompted me to dig out my soldiers as they were in my parents attic.

As you said, the nostalgic wave hit me, they resparked my interest in them by looking at them and off I went collecting again.

The problem today is there are no toy soldiers in Woolworths, The five and dime, Sanco Toys, Grants, Filene's, Macy's, Jordan Marsh, Kresge's, Bradlees, Child World, Kings, Sparks; why, because just about all of them are out of business, you can't find toy soldiers in stores anymore, you can hardly find TOYS anymore, kids today are all into electronic gadgets, not toys.

All the hobby shops I visited as a kid are all gone too, so how do you get kids today into a hobby that is not readily available for them? It's a different world today and kids have different interests than I did as a kid. I used to buy boxed ho/oo sets for 69 cents, 89 cents, I remember I almost fainted when they went up to 1.19 per box. Ho/oo sets today are 10.00, 12.00, 15.00, 18.00, it's crazy when you think of it.

The problem as I see it is 20 years from now, the 30 year olds will have no nostalgic ties to toy soldiers as they don't have them now, they'll be into vintage Ipads, Ipods, laptops, desktops, tablets, etc, etc as those are what THEY had as kids.

It is what it is.......................

Well then, it is inevitable that the toy soldier as well as many other hobbies from our past (i.e. trains, sports cards, etc.) will go the way of the horse and buggy in the future when the interest and sense of a nostalgic connection is ultimately lost with todays youth... I guess my collection will end up in a museum one day for future generations to wonder in amazement, "What the heck was he thinking?!".

 

[Warrior]

Time will tell what the future holds for toy soldiers or any hobby for that matter.

I enjoy my hobby, it's what interests me and makes me happy, which is really what matters to me.

 

[Peter Reuss]

I believe the future of this hobby is with those who love history, people who want to find ways of honoring and respecting (and recreating) the past in miniature form.

Not every collector had toy soldiers as a kid. It's one route into the hobby, but not the only one!

 

[Warrior]

Not every collector had toy soldiers as a kid. It's one route into the hobby, but not the only one!

True, but ask anyone in the 50 to 75 year old demographic and it's pretty much "I had toy soldiers as a kid, grew out of them in my teenage years, revisited them later in life through a newspaper story, a phone call, a tv show, etc, etc, my interest was resparked and for nostalgic reasons and a few others, I started collecting again."

I am a firm believer in the expression everything happens for a reason; it's crazy to think where my life would be or what path it took had my cousin not picked up the phone and called me, asking me about my old toy soldiers and me digging them out.

Probably wouldn't be in the hobby, or in the business, would be working somewhere at a job I could barely tolerate, married with 2.5 children and a dog, barely getting by and miserable.

Instead, I collect toy soldiers and have a ball with them, sell toy soldiers and have a ball with that, have Miss Tiffany in my life and if something happened to me at this point, it would take the funeral home director a week to get the smile off of my face.

What a difference a phone call can make.

 

[Warbuff26]

....enough said. My 5 year old after the show.

 

[Warrior]

....enough said. My 5 year old after the show.

You are a terrific parent...........:wink2:

Where did he get those BMC figures, those are nice?............^&grin

Thanks to you and him for your support at the show B..................