Our changing hobby-the decline of shows and possible alternatives (1 Viewer)

theBaron

Major
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
10,324
We have a couple of discussions going elsewhere in the forum, on the theme of the decline of the toy soldier show. Not a show whose purpose is an exhibition of toy soldiers or figure, but whose purpose is to sell toy soldiers.

Good arguments have been made to explain the gradual decline in the size and number of shows. Collectors, and vendors, are getting older, their numbers dwindling. Online shopping is more convenient and less costly than traveling long distances to visit a show. The cost of staging a show on the scale of the Chicago, East Coast, or West Coast toy soldier shows is constantly on the rise and pricing promoters out of business. Those are just a few that I can recall off the top of my head, and they're all valid.

A common observation about visiting a toy soldier show is that we get to meet up with other collectors, amateurs in the literal sense, and enjoy our common interest in the hobby. It's generally agreed that online activity still hasn't replaced meeting up in person, regardless of the impact of the Internet on trading and sharing information.

But something occurred to me, as I read the updates in Louis' threads about his annual symposium. For the purposes of socializing and interacting live with other collectors, I think we will see an increase in events like the symposium. Britains holds one, too. And beyond collecting toy soldiers, I see this trend emerging in the areas of painting figures and building models. Collectors, modelers, painters, are getting together in small groups, for informal events. Even in my own clubs, I can see this. A couple of us host various small get-togethers throughout the year. We have something to eat and drink, and we show off pieces from our collections, and build and paint, as appropriate. I've seen other groups doing the same thing, here in the US, and abroad as well.

As far as sales go, I wonder if we will see more small, local events, like the show held in Annadale, VA, shows staged in an inexpensive venue, like a Legion or VFW post, or a fire hall. For merchants interested in staging a show, those logistics are more within reach, than to rent out a larger, more expensive venue like a hotel or convention center. And the cost of tables and admission can be kept low, generally. So if there is demand to get out and buy things in person, I can see the small, local show emerging as the more common type of real-time, live event.

I think these developments are already taking place in related hobbies, too, such as in wargaming. I see the gatherings at the local stores we have here in the area, such as our local Warhammer store. Warhammer fans gather there to game, and to paint their figures. And they hold small, very local exhibitions as well, awarding prizes for painting. It happens naturally, organically.

What do you folks think?

Prost!
Brad
 
Brad,

I can't disagree with anything you said, particularly your point about Symposia. In addition to the New York Symposium and the ones Britains holds, King & Country holds dinner events in Australia and the Philippines for the same purpose: bringing collectors and manufacturers together in a social setting to talk about their common interests. I, however, love the fun of attending toy soldier shows, because in addition to the good fellowship, there is the fun of hunting for obscure items and bargains not always available on the internet. The OTSN (Chicago) Show and the London Show still thrive, and are my two favorites, but there used to be a couple of shows big enough to draw manufacturers like Andy Neilson of King & Country or John Jenkins on the east (Valley Forge Show) and West (Westcoaster) coasts. Indeed, the first toy soldier show I ever attended (against my better judgment) was the Valley Forge Show just to meet Andy (whom I had faxed and spoken to on the phone) in person. That, and my second show, the OTSN, with its wonderful room trading, hooked me on shows for life. Health permitting (flying can kill my back) I intend to attend the OTSN every year, and hope to get back to London for a show in the next year as well. I never got to the Westcoaster, but if they get it going again, I hope to get there one of these days as well. The comradery is the main reason, but the fun of finding that rare item you have been after for ever, or didn't even know existed prior to the show, is a close second.

Sadly, the very thing that made collecting feasible for me, the internet (when I started collecting, I used to take the list of brick and mortar stores that came in K&C boxes, and call each store looking for what I was after once a month, but it was the advent of the internet that allowed me to really expand my collection), is putting an end to, or at least severely curtailing, the shows I love so much. I hope that Chicago and London continue to survive, and even thrive, but as my son is the only 13 year old I know who collects toy soldiers, I fear the shows, and maybe even the hobby itself, sadly, are going to die with our generation. I hope I'm wrong, and that there are a bunch a young history buffs I just haven't run into, but I doubt it.:redface2:
 
Brad,

as my son is the only 13 year old I know who collects toy soldiers, I fear the shows, and maybe even the hobby itself, sadly, are going to die with our generation.

Don't worry Louis there is always hope. My 16 year olds room is littered with toy soldiers and he has even got one of his friends collecting. However, as soon as his girlfriend comes over he hides it all^&grin. Guess it's not cool to collect toy soldiers at 16:rolleyes2: My 12 year old nephew also collects thanks to his Uncle, lol.
 
I can remember going to my first toy soldier show many decades ago and seeing those wonderful Aeroart figures for the first time. They were outrageously priced even back then but they hooked me. There was no substitute for seeing them in person. As a history and military buff, those figures were addictive (even if they took some artistic license such as making Ramses look a great deal like Yul Brenner). I find the shows depressing now, however. They remind me of the scene from The Wrestler where the aging wrestlers are selling autographs to a handful of patrons. For good or ill, it's a new day. If the prices are any indication, the hobby is still healthy but the days of the shows are numbered. Sometimes you get a nostalgic rebound but the collectors who are likely attending are getting older. It's a lot more convenient to buy on the Internet and have an item delivered to your door. You will always have some shows though. They will just be less numerous and will need an incentive like one of the major manufacturers in attendance or some exclusive figure to bolster attendance. Collectors collect and they often can't resist if there is something unique to be had at a show.
 
Don't worry Louis there is always hope. My 16 year olds room is littered with toy soldiers and he has even got one of his friends collecting. However, as soon as his girlfriend comes over he hides it all^&grin. Guess it's not cool to collect toy soldiers at 16:rolleyes2: My 12 year old nephew also collects thanks to his Uncle, lol.

I’m thrilled to hear it!😎😎. I hope there are a few others besides our kids! Lol
 
I have a friend who shockingly told me he didn't know what came first, WWII or the Korean War. I always assumed people had a general knowledge of history. Apparently not!{eek3}
 
I am not convinced the hobby in the pursuit of historical knowledge is in decline- toy soldiers maybe, but I think the love of history and appreciation of history is quite alive and very vibrant.

1- I am a casual wargamer as well as a TS collector. One can reasonably assert that they are one in the same actually. One scale is 54/60mm and the other is 15-20mm. Both hobbies essentially consist of setting up dioramas in a particular area. But in reality, that is kind of where the similarities cease and wargaming goes well above and beyond simple TS collecting. If you look at this hobby- you generally don't have to paint anything, you can whip up some scenic pieces if you want a little extra "wow" factor (or for a modest fee you can buy some from some vendors). And then set them up take pictures and chat and move on. You really don't do anything else beyond that. Wargaming you paint and assemble, you research the battles and units, research the rules, assemble the armies and battlefield and then push lead for 2-6 hours at a time. This hobby "stops short" of all of that and in a lot of ways is a fun hobby for those of us either without the talent or the time to tackle wargaming. I have yet to see anyone involved in the wargaming community complain because of lack of members.

2- Toy soldier prices are just beyond what I would consider responsible right now. Tanks are on average $350-$500+ now- why??? I get it- they look fantastic, they look real- heck, any more realism and you might as well go out and buy your own 1:1 scale Sherman or Tiger. I am spending a third of what I used to spend simply because prices are just very difficult for me to justify anymore. I feel the loss of shows and what not are perhaps a trickle down effect of this. Take your average $55 foot soldier. I can go to my favorite online war game retailers (Avalon Hill, Ares, Dan Verssen, etc) and snatch up any number of well researched titles from their libraries and solo wargame for hours on end. Again, all for the price of ONE average foot soldier in todays market. Because I chose to play out campaigns via solo wargames using chits and boards does that make my interest in history any less relevant than the dude who has dozens of foot toy soldiers?

3- With the length and depth of the War on Terror, a lot of Gen Y, Millenials, etc have been engaged either directly in war or have someone close to them involved with it as well. Frankly, and I cant blame them, they are probably tired of war and all things military. I know when I got off active duty, I took all my military history books down to the local used book seller for beer money. I boomeranged back and I believe there are scores of this generation that will as well.

Good bad or indifferent, I am of the opinion that this hobby really doesn't do much to stimulate the senses and in some regards is the ultimate "do nothing" hobby! {sm3}:tongue::p While I enjoy it, I can easily see how other history fanatics wouldn't deviate from their pursuit of historical knowledge to take on toy soldiers at today's prices.
 
Same trend as Teddy Bears some years back. Huge investment appeal. Increase in production volumes to meet demand. Bubble bursts. Reality sets in. Was the market that big. One asks oneself.
 
The Late texas show? It seems no other venue anywhere can be found to have a show of any kind at any price,
 
I have a friend who shockingly told me he didn't know what came first, WWII or the Korean War. I always assumed people had a general knowledge of history. Apparently not!{eek3}

Public school education? With a 50% dropout rate how will "everyone "go to college?
 
I once had a long conversation with the author, Tony Hillerman. He was a WW II vet, wrote a number of mysteries centered around the Four Corners area of Arizona, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. He also taught at the University of New Mexico. He was once asked by a student, "Mr. Hillerman, were there any wars after World War One?"

How about that!
 
I once had a long conversation with the author, Tony Hillerman. He was a WW II vet, wrote a number of mysteries centered around the Four Corners area of Arizona, Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. He also taught at the University of New Mexico. He was once asked by a student, "Mr. Hillerman, were there any wars after World War One?"

How about that!

Tony Hillerman is a wonderful author and a very good read. I love his "Leaphorn and Chee" Navaho detective series, having all 21 of his books.

<><><>

My wife and I owned a B&C + Restaurant a while ago. We had 5-7 busy boys and bus girls.
During the winter months the kids did their home works on nights when we were not busy.

I overheard them reviewing for a US History exam. I was astounded at the number of WRONG answers I heard given to many history questions including numerous WWII questions.

The person who was asking the question did not correct the answer so I jumped in.
Come to find out … the answers were provided by the TEACHERS!!! {eek3}

Of course I corrected them and proved my answers by showing them books and more.

About three days later, I received a letter from the school principle … informing me that I had NO RIGHT to correct what their teacher has said. ***!!:mad:
It went back and forth between me and the school when I received another letter from the school committee board. This said that I was to cease providing information to the kids or they school board would take action … what I don't know.

Long Story - Short, I went to the next School Board meeting and brought over 50 Q/A that were incorrect. Also three local historians and authors came with me. It was attended (as normal) by the local press. The school board really had egg all over their faces at the end of the evening. The news paper article did further damage to the schools reputation.

The history teacher was "REMOVED" thank goodness, but I lost some friends who were teachers … OH WELL!

Sad day.


--- LaRRy
 
A sad day indeed.

Sad, as in, it's sad a teacher actually lost his/her job over this.

The mind reels.
 
I "believe" that the main cause of termination was not so much that teacher was ignorant of many facts, but more to the fault of her stubbornness to do things the way she wanted to, regardless of the policy of the school and school council.

Apparently, it was not the first time attention was brought to focus on her teaching activities.
She had been doing things .. her way .. for a long time and couldn't (or wouldn't) adjust to the changing policies of the education system.

Still, even though I had no real stake in the issue, I was not "unhappy" to see her retired!

---LaRRy
 
I "believe" that the main cause of termination was not so much that teacher was ignorant of many facts, but more to the fault of her stubbornness to do things the way she wanted to, regardless of the policy of the school and school council.

Apparently, it was not the first time attention was brought to focus on her teaching activities.
She had been doing things .. her way .. for a long time and couldn't (or wouldn't) adjust to the changing policies of the education system.

Still, even though I had no real stake in the issue, I was not "unhappy" to see her retired!

---LaRRy

Hopefully she wasn't a teacher for too long a time before hand Larry with her giving the children false information and they found out the truth before they became laughing stocks !

Steve
 
Hopefully she wasn't a teacher for too long a time before hand Larry with her giving the children false information and they found out the truth before they became laughing stocks !

Steve

I am not 100% sure of the exact numbers, but I know she was over 71 years old and had been a teacher in this school system for approx. 44 years.

Her teaching focus was (General) History, Constitutional Law and Political Geography. Not sure what that last one was totally ? :rolleyes2:

As I mentioned, she had complaints lodged against her from parents, in the past. I don't know what they all were about.
I did hear that some of her "facts" were either fabricated or nonsense in here Constitutional Law class and the parents of her students were lawyers themselves who brought the issues to light.

Another faux pas of note was her referencing Yugoslavia as a "CURRENT active" model of Geopolitical study … ^&confuse

History, unlike subjects of physics or mathematics, can be open to a degree of interpretation. BUT her diatribes to the students, on her beliefs of Socialism and how Benito Mussolini's dream of a New Roman Empire was inspirational was (IMO) unacceptable. … WHAT????? I would put the 3 letter acronym here but it gets censored.

I would probably rate myself in the lower tier of historically knowledgeable folks on this forum. But when I heard what (BULL) was being told to these kids it got my shackles stirred.

For example:
* The Japanese Attack on Pearl harbor was in response to the United States attack on the Japanese fishing fleet in and around Japan.

* Only the USS Arizona was not raised and returned to operation? WHAT ABOUT THE OKLAHOMA?

* The US ARMY was the primary military branch to attack the Japanese strongholds in the Pacific war. The USMC simply played a reserve role? (THIS REALLY got me miffed)

* The atomic bomb that was dropped on Nagasaki purely a political move, directed towards Stalin as a message .. HE WAS NEXT.

I could go on but you get the idea.

Not sure how much damage was done with all the graduating classes before she left.
They probably became liberal democrats!!! {eek3}

--- LaRRy
 
"In 1943, Oklahoma was righted and salvaged. UNLIKE THE OTHER BATTLESHIPS THAT WERE RECOVERED FOLLOWING PEARL HARBOR, THE OKLAHOMA WAS TOO DAMAGED TO RETURN TO ACTIVE DUTY. Her wreck was eventually stripped of her remaining armament and superstructure before being sold for scrap in 1946. The hulk sank in a storm in 1947, while being towed from Oahu, Hawaii, to a breakers yard in San Francisco Bay."

" A view among critics of the bombings, that was popularized by American historian Gar Alperovitz in 1965, is the idea of atomic diplomacy: that the United States used nuclear weapons in order to intimidate the Soviet Union in the early stages of the Cold War."

Maybe they should rehire her...………...…..:wink2:
 
Last edited:
On top of what George has had to say, how did you think, Larry, that it was your role to get involved in this situation and contribute to making it an issue that led to her dismissal. If you were a parent, I would have a greater appreciation for your role but you weren't.

As you relate it -- and I assume you are correctly relating the mistakes she made -- none of them are egregious or material, certainly nothing to create a fuss about. In addition to the Oklahoma point, she is not wrong about Nagasaki; there is a school of thought that says it was a demonstration to the Russians that we have many Atomic weapons. Little did we know that the Russians had this information already due to Russian espionage.

Lastly, political geography is a branch of study: it is the branch of geography that deals with the boundaries, divisions, and possessions of countries.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top