Panther 215 and Kruger? (1 Viewer)

[dragon53]

Does anyone have any historical information on Panther 215 (CS00354) and its commander named"Kruger"?

My meager information is that #215 was knocked out by a Sherman's lucky ricochet shot near Stoumont during the Battle of the Bulge and Kruger died from his wounds.

 

[fmethorst]

Assuming this Panther represents Panther 215 from 2./SS-panzerregiment 1 (an element of Kampfgruppe Peiper) it was indeed knocked out just past Stoumont Station December 19, 1944 as it was leading a column of Panthers around a bend. This was the farthest point Peiper's Kampfgruppe penetrated. The tank did not have whitewash. The crew consisted of Kruger, Fritsche, Schafer, Gutmann and Daub. After being hit the tank backed up and the crew bailed out. The only information I have regarding survivors is Gutmann (driver) and Daub (radio operator). The Americans later bulldozed the tank off the side of the road and it ended up upside down.

 

[dragon53]

FMETHORST:

Thanks for the info. Based on the photos and info I found on #215, I think you're correct about no whitewash.
Do you know Kruger's first name?... I've seen Jochen and another one. If I had his first name, I might be able to locate more info.

 

[fmethorst]

No I don't have the first name. I've seen Horst as a possible.

 

[lancer]

A book, "Duel In The Mist: The Leibstandarte during the Ardennes offensive, Vol.1: Kampfgruppe Peiper. Stoumont, December 19, 1944." is the best source of material on this tank. There are multiple authors, with Stefan De Meyer listed first. The action is on page 128 and there is a color illustration of the tank on page 280 (no white wash). There are also several b/w photos showing that there was no whitewash. Credit for knocking out #215 went to the 743rd tank Batt. There is no first name listed for Kruger, which is odd since the first names for the rest of the crew are recorded. -- Al

 

[dragon53]

LANCER,

Thanks. I've seen a number of excerpts from DUEL IN THE MIST and Panther #215. It's very odd that Kruger's name is never mentioned. I found a German-to-English translation regarding a Jochen Kruger ans another first name, but since German-to-English translations are unreliable, I'm still not 100% sure of Kruger's first name.

 

[lancer]

LANCER,

Thanks. I've seen a number of excerpts from DUEL IN THE MIST and Panther #215. It's very odd that Kruger's name is never mentioned. I found a German-to-English translation regarding a Jochen Kruger ans another first name, but since German-to-English translations are unreliable, I'm still not 100% sure of Kruger's first name.

I have found "Duel in the Mist" to be a great book, with incredible detail. While expensive (in the range of $110), it is worth it if one is a BoB fan. I have been awaiting further volumes as Duel was published in 2007. Patience is a virtue, or so I'm told.:rolleyes2: -- Al

 

[dragon53]

LANCER,

Used copies of DUEL IN THE MIST go for over $90.

Another question since you have the book----am I correct that Panther #215 does not have the commander's machine gun?

 

[lancer]

LANCER,

Used copies of DUEL IN THE MIST go for over $90.

Another question since you have the book----am I correct that Panther #215 does not have the commander's machine gun?

There is no photographic evidence that #215 had the commander's MG fixed to the ring. In fact, none of the photos of the 2./SS-Panzerregiment 1 Panthers (and there are quite a few photos) show that the commanders MG was fixed to the ring on any of the Panthers. Hope this helps. -- Al

 

[dragon53]

LANCER:

Thanks. I had already removed the commander's machine gun. I wanted to make sure I was correct in doing so.

 

[Beaufighter]

LANCER,

Used copies of DUEL IN THE MIST go for over $90.

Another question since you have the book----am I correct that Panther #215 does not have the commander's machine gun?

"Al The Pal",

I lucked out and thanks to this thread, picked up a new copy on eBay from the U.K. for $64.00 shipped! I think there is another listing for a similar amount. I could not resist this book especially since the action starts on 19 December-my birthday.

Hang Tough,
Marc

 

[lancer]

"Al The Pal",

I lucked out and thanks to this thread, picked up a new copy on eBay from the U.K. for $64.00 shipped! I think there is another listing for a similar amount. I could not resist this book especially since the action starts on 19 December-my birthday.

Hang Tough,
Marc

Excellent find, Marc. Congrats, that is a great price. Second hand books are best deals. A great book and I can't wait for vol.2. -- Al

 

[dragon53]

GUYS:


Is this a photo of Panther #211 or Panther #215 (CS00354) on fire near Stoumont?

 

[lancer]

GUYS:


Is this a photo of Panther #211 or Panther #215 (CS00354) on fire near Stoumont?

It is neither. It is Panther 225, commanded by Rottf. Prahm, knocked out on the N.33 road entering Stoumont on Dec.17, 1944 at approx. 0930 by the 743rd Tank Bn. -- Al

 

[lancer]

It is neither. It is Panther 225, commanded by Rottf. Prahm, knocked out on the N.33 road entering Stoumont on Dec.17, 1944 at approx. 0930 by the 743rd Tank Bn. -- Al

I made a boo-boo.:redface2: The date #225 was knocked out should be Dec. 19, not 17. -- Al

 

[dragon53]

LANCER:

Thanks a lot for clearing that up. I was hoping I found a photo of my CS #215 ablaze. I found a few other photos after it was knocked out on and off the road.

 

[lancer]

LANCER:

Thanks a lot for clearing that up. I was hoping I found a photo of my CS #215 ablaze. I found a few other photos after it was knocked out on and off the road.

Hi Dragon53. Using the afore mentioned "Duel in the Mist" as a source, it appears Panther 215 did not burn when it was initially knocked out and abandoned, (pg 128), although a picture of 215 taken with US troops (before it was pushed off the road and turned over), shows that some sort of fire had effected the suspension. As a matter of interest, #215 was a tricolor-camo dot pattern finish with no white wash or zimmerit. Turret numbers were in black with thin white outline. -- Al

 

[dragon53]

LANCER,

Yep, I knew from asking here before that 215 didn't have whitewash. From what I've read, 215 was knocked out via a ricochet shot in the belly, but I didn't know if there was a fire afterwards or not, so I was hoping the photo was 215.

 

[lancer]

LANCER,

Yep, I knew from asking here before that 215 didn't have whitewash. From what I've read, 215 was knocked out via a ricochet shot in the belly, but I didn't know if there was a fire afterwards or not, so I was hoping the photo was 215.

Panther 215 actually marked the point of furthest advance for KG Peiper as it was knocked out on the road out of Stoumont. Once it was hit, the other vehicles in the column pulled back to Stoumont and never got any further. The picture you asked about which was #225, was taken as the KG moved in to Stoumont. Panther 215 was knocked out on the opposite side of town, on the way out. -- Al

 

[jbonzo1]

Some great intel in this thread. That book sounds like a must have for Bulge fans.