Panther vs Pershing in Cologne..... (1 Viewer)

[binder001]

On 6 March 1945, during the US drive into Cologne Germany a US unit ran into a Panther near the cathedral. In the ensuing action one Sherman was knocked out but a new T26E3 was called up and destroyed the Panther. What is unusual about this action is that it was one of the most recorded small actions of WW2.

Here is one of the best links that I have run across on the battle;

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165131

This is presented for information. We've already had the looonnngg discussions about US versus German tank design.

Gary Binder

 

[Louis Badolato]

Gary,

Great website. Terrific breakdown of the events in that famous film. I was unaware of the fact that two of the 90mm shells penetrated clean through both sides of the Panther's armor, or that the third penetrated the mantlet. The Pershing must have been some tank, perhaps even a match for the Tiger.

Regards,

Louis

 

[OzDigger]

The 90mm weapon was also used in the M36 'Jackson' tank destroyer. Some authors say Patton was to blame for the late introduction of a heavier tank and weapon because he favoured the faster Sherman tank. They haven't been able to produce any writen evidence of this. However we should note that Patton initially didn't want tanks to replace horses

Btw, I wonder if they were being a bit coy about the three Germans that were killed by 'shrapnel' as they escaped the burning Panther. Wouldn't they have been machine gunned, which was the standard procedure. Well I guess they could have been killed by subsequent HE round(s), but why use the somewhat random 'shrapnel' term.

 

[binder001]

We've been over some of this in older threads. Despite the assertion by Belton Cooper in "Death Traps", Patton didn't delay the 90mm guns. A field army commander didn't have DIRECT inluence on what the Ordnance department was developing (except for passing along "lessons learned"). The real story is based in unrealistic tank requirements issued by Army Ground Forces and adherence to faulty doctrine.

Yes, the 90mm gun M3 was basically the same as found in the M36 tank destroyer. Developed from the AAA weapon, like Germany's 88mm. Fortunately several hundred M36s were available starting after the fall of 1944 since the first T26E3s didn't reach Europe until February of 1945.

 

[Louis Badolato]

I think on the actual film it appears the panzer crewman are machine gunned as they tried to escape.

Belton Cooper's book "Death Traps" provides the source for blaming Patton for the failure to introduce heavier tanks, based on his decision at Tidesworth Downs. There has been a veritable war on this forum on the subject (with me being the chief defender of Belton Cooper's position, as I like Patton only marginally more than I like Montgomery).

 

[DMNamiot]

Hi Guys,

Having watched this film several times and recently on a History Channel show there were a lot of Machinegun rounds heading towards the Panther and its crew. Some appear to be 50 cal and others look to be 30 cal so it may have been coming from one of the other tanks involved or from ground troops. But it was pretty standard to try and nail the crew so they dont run off and get back into the next vehicle and fight you again. And not to beat the horse too much but the fact that the Pershing got into the fight at all is noteworthy, it went from concept to production to the field in a very short period of time. So I guess we should be happy it got there and did its part.

Dave

 

[OzDigger]

I think on the actual film it appears the panzer crewman are machine gunned as they tried to escape.

Belton Cooper's book "Death Traps" provides the source for blaming Patton for the failure to introduce heavier tanks, based on his decision at Tidesworth Downs. There has been a veritable war on this forum on the subject (with me being the chief defender of Belton Cooper's position, as I like Patton only marginally more than I like Montgomery).

While I like Monty only marginally more than Patton

 

[Louis Badolato]

How about we agree that they were both egotistical schmucks, and leave it at that?

 

[TLP]

Well I wasnt around for who did what in the last threads, but I do have a pretty good idea what happend here. The reason I have a good idea is because the guys who were there saw it filmed it and stated what happend! I think thats good for me.

To be fair the thread title should have read Panther vs, Sherman & Sherman & Pershing! The Panther did take out one sherman and disabled the other before it was smoked!

Good video.