Question about new King Tiger and Char B1 bis (1 Viewer)

[Eazy]

Has it been confirmed now that the production numbers of these two upcoming tanks has been increased?

I'd like to know because the limited nature of them when first announced was an important factor in my and perhaps others preordering them.

 

[Njja]

They better not have been increased or we have a case of Fraud on our hands! You bring up a good point! I know after the original numbers of 250

for the Char, and 500 for the King Tiger was announced some dealers complained. However once numbers are released and items are sold based on

those stated production figures the numbers should not be changed. Otherwise sales have been made based on false and misleading information.

This is one for Andy C. would you please advise us on the correct production numbers for the new French Char FOB010 originally listed at 250

and the WS71 New King Tiger 2nd Version originally stated at 500. I also noticed some of our dealers have now Quietly Removed Posted

Numbers Any changes should at least be posted on the Forum where the original limited productions were announced!



Njja

 

[Shannon Reuss]

John, I can't speak for anyone else but Treefrog Treasures informed their customers via our weekly newsletter on Jan. 10 that King & Country was planning to increase numbers on the Char and Tiger and at that time pulled the old numbers off the website. Since we don't have hard numbers on production we haven't posted new numbers. Since announcing the increase I have had one pre-order cancellation but no one else has seemed to care.
I talked with Andy last week and he estimated the Tiger release at 700-800 and the Chars at 400-500.
As a long-time customer of ours I had assumed you were on our newsletter list but I see you aren't. If you want to receive it just let me know.
I see what you mean though about posted numbers. It would have been a good idea for King & Country to post the change on the forum right away, but perhaps they thought their dealers would get the word out. I don't think it was meant to deceive anyone, I just know that there was a big outcry for more since there wasn't enough to go around. In the grand scheme of things the numbers didn't increase by much but I suppose if the original number was 250 then 400-500 does seem like a lot more. 400-500 is still a very limited production in my mind.
Regards,

 

[Njja]

Hi Shannon, please add me to your mailing list, I was not aware you had one. I am unhappy to hear this turn of events, and will call you to cancel my pre-

order for both of these products. Since I first learned about these 'liimted runs" through a message posted here on the Forum, any change to these

numbers should also have been posted. This "incident" is not directed at "Treefrog" as you have always treated me wonderfully, and I hold you in Very High

Reguard. Numbers should "Never be Released then Changed" after Sales have been received, that is Extremly Misleading. I understand, that dealer pressure

forced Andy C. to apparently change his mind and I find this most unfortunate. I'm sure the origianl numbers stated came from King & Country and they should

in the interest of there customers "Allways Honor Stated Production Numbers"

Njja

 

[Njja]

Has it been confirmed now that the production numbers of these two upcoming tanks has been increased?

I'd like to know because the limited nature of them when first announced was an important factor in my and perhaps others preordering them.

I would like to personally thank Easy for bringing this "Extremly Unfortunate"

turn of event to the collectors attention. I think it would be quite

unfortunate if a collector on a limited budget re-directed his budget to one

of these "Qusi-Limited" items. Limited to me is "Non-Negotiable"

Njja

 

[jazzeum]

I have no desire to jump into this discussion but I think there is a difference between an item advertised as Limited, like the 2005 Winter Tiger, and the repainted King Tiger. The description on the King and Country website just says that it's "A new version of our King Tiger. It's in a striking two color paint scheme adopted in the last six months of the European War. The tank’s crew figures have also been repainted in different camouflage uniforms."

I don't think that makes it a "Limited" edition although that may be the effect.

 

[Njja]

Brad the problem is multiple dealers listed the production of the new tiger

at only 500 pieces, and the new char at only 250 pieces. No one Forced

them to do this, they listed it as a "Selling Feature" to intice customers to

pre-order the item. Then quietly these numbers dissapeared.

That is clearly a mis-representation of the product, and should not happen.


Njja

 

[Combat]

I agree 100% that once production numbers have been released that they should not be increased. There are some folks that purchase in whole or part for investment purposes (although the wisdom of that notion for buying new releases is questionable at best). However, I also have sympathy for the more casual buyers that purchase for fun and are out of luck with the lower production numbers. Repaints are a dubious "limited edition" concept anyway. I sort of assume it is a clever way to unload pieces that could not be sold in the first run & is "limited" only to how many remain in inventory.

BTW: these types of issues also highlight the importance of numbering the individual items in limited release scenarios to avoid any confusion (e.g on the bottom of each figure or piece "56/500").

 

[UK_BOD]

Hi everyone

I'm in full agreement with Njja, how can K&C advertise these two models at 500 & 250 and then change it. Check K&C UK they still have it at these figures. To say I am not impressed is an understatement. I look forward to hearing from K&C reference this. I still have the King Tiger on order.

After the comments made by K&C on the NMA question (Goodluck by the way Mike, see you at the London Show), I am starting to lose interest in their product. ( I own about 20 separate vehicles and a similar number of 4-fig sets. I also have a large number of Naps and Scenics) Collecting has never been a financial investment for me. I only buy what I like. I wonder what ONWTC and Conte have been doing.

Just to let anyone know, I don't own shares in NMA and I have never met Mike or anyone in their company, before people qustion my greeting to them. I just wish them luck.

Honour Bound looks' good, by the way. I wonder which Brit company will stock them?

Regards

Andy C

 

[Njja]

Combat you make an excellent point, about numbering the piece itself.

My problem with this mess is as follows:

1. Limited WS69 had certificates printed in access of 500.

2. Runs of WS71 & FOB010 bumped up after dealers list production.

3. Vietnam Sets limited to 500 pcs yet currently there are 3 different sellers

with these sets on Ebay with & without certificates! I myself have 3 boxed

sets of Vietnam Figures with no certificates. Who looses the certificates, yet

keep the box & figures? Does this mean there were 500 sets with certificates

and ?????? done without?

4. Arnhem Sets limited to 500 pcs yet again they are currently listed on

Ebay with certificates, and without them.

I think we deserve an explination to these questions? What happened to all

the certificates for these Vietnam & Arnhem Sets?

There are currently 74 worldwide dealers for King & Country if they release

250 pcs thats 3.3 each, 500 is 6.75, and 1000 is 13.5 If production is listed

as 250 pcs and some of the larger dealers are ordering in excess of 30 pieces

WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM! DO THE MATH, IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP.

Houstin We Have A Problem!


Njja

 

[erniesstudio]

I ordered two of the new tigers based on the limited numbers ,It will still not deter me to cancel,BUT..slowly and surely ,i am starting to wonder at these changes and mishaps..they seem to surface far to often????????.ern

 

[gk5717]

I have all but two of the Arnem sets and only one has a certificate. I have the VietNam series also and none have a certificate.
I don,t know about the VietNam sets, but I believe the Arnem sets there were two seperate releaseses, one with and one without certificates.
I,m sure Louis can straighten this out.
Gary

 

[Fullyautomatic]

I heard before that the Arnhem sets were released in two different runs. Same goes with me. Some of my Arnhem sets have certificates and some don't. My two VietNam sets have no certificates.

 

[Fullyautomatic]

I'm with Njja on this one. Check out the forum threads "K&C Monthly Update. "That is where we were first informed of the KT and Char news. Wording does not state limited but tends to read that thats the numbers we were going to get. A follow-up thread called "Strictly Limited" had a post from myself asking Andy what "modest increase" meant in regards to increase in numbers.
The definition that I understood from Andy in the past in regards to Limited was a entirely new piece or mold,all together different from past releases,certificate to a limited number and a more designer type box. I was to believe these others were not "Limited Edition" persay but repaints limited to those numbers first released which was 500 and 200 respectively.I guess I will also be wary the next time this is announced.

 

[Njja]

I heard before that the Arnhem sets were released in two different runs. Same goes with me. Some of my Arnhem sets have certificates and some don't. My two VietNam sets have no certificates.

I hope we get an explination on this, but the current silence from King &

Country on these issues is deafing!

1. Where are all the Vietham Set Certificates?

2. Were both Arnhem Sets Limited? If so where are their certificates?

3. Whats up with the adjusted production runs of WS71 & FOB010.

I accepted Andy C's explaniation of the WS69 Certificate Overun. His

response was timely and genuine. However for credibility to be maintained

there should be no further "Set Backs" or "Incidents" with stated production

numbers used to entice sales.

Njja

 

[jazzeum]

John,

King and Country can't comment right now. Their workday is just starting.

I also understand that some of the later Arnhem set didn't have certificates. I don't know much about the Vietnam sets so I'll pass on those.

I understand you're upset about the King Tiger and Char and Andy has apologized about the mixup with the WS 69 certificates but I don't understand why you're bringing up the Arnhem sets and Vietnam since those are very old history.

I think your main concern is the King Tiger and the Char. It's my understanding that the total run for the KT will be 800 and the Char 400, not thousands.

So, in retrospect two of these four events happened (if they happened at all) while K & C was a relatively young company, one was a mistake so that leaves with just one.

I think we should confine our focus to that one, the most recent one.

 

[Eazy]

Well i'm glad it's all out in the open now. For my part i'm cancelling my order for the King Tiger. I like the look of the new Char and i don't have the original, but i'm still unsure whether to just drop my order on principle.
I think it's been handled quite badly.

I do understand that these two items were not Strictly Limited but surely in the interest of good customer relations the originally stated numbers should have been maintained.

At a later date a third version could have been done if the demand was so great.

 

[Njja]

Thanks Brad you are certainly correct about the time frame, I didn't even

check local time in Hong Kong. I agree with your points, but to me as Andy

stated before, it is a matter of trust. The eariler Vietnam & Arnhem Sets are

simply a question which leads to credibility. Where are all the certificates?

It is hard to believe collectors would keep the boxes and loose the

certificates! Perhaps there is a simple explination.

When you consider those facts with the current adjustment to published

production numbers I believe we have a problem.

If your wheel fell off, you would certainly check all the lug nuts on all the

other tires before you drove off wouldn't you?


Njja

 

[jazzeum]

As a further aside about King and Country not yet responding, since it's Chinese New Year, King and Country may be closed for another week or so.

 

[Njja]

Bad timing for this to come out.

Njja