Rorke's Drift~~~Where did all the $$$$$ go? (3 Viewers)

[UKReb]

Most military history students will always find a fascination of a modern army being annihilated by an indigenous people such as Isandlwana and the Custer fight. And heroic actions against insurmountable odds such as the Alamo, Charge of the Light Brigade, Pickett's charge at Gettysburg and Rorke's Drift naturally lend themselves to generate a whole plethora of articles and books to study.

But it is without doubt that movies about these actions are the primary medium to be able to lift the stories out of those dusty pages that students of war love to study and bring an immediate awareness to a whole mass of ordinary people in just one visit to a cinema.


A very good example is Disney's Davy Crockett King of the Wild Frontier- until that film was released in the early 50's people around the world (minus most Americans I suppose and especially Texans of couse) had never heard of the Alamo. Likewise before the release of Cy Endfields/Baker's Zulu movie very few Americans or indeed Brits had ever heard of Rorke's Drift.

Now do the research on how many various Alamo toy soldiers were available to collectors or even kids before 1952-however, soon after the world was flooded with them along with coon-skin hats and Old Betsy toy flintlocks. Now undertake the same exercise on the availabilty of pre-1964 lead or plastic Zulus and 24th Foot figures that were available on the market for collectors and you should come up with a fairly accurate answer to the original question.

Movies were and always will be a very powerful medium.

As an aside another poster mentioned visiting the Zulu battlefields I never got to Rorke's Drift but some years ago I did manage a flying visit to Isandlwana (I sent Joe (The Lt) a full report of that visit.) Guys trust me when I say that is one very eerie place- standing alongside those white rock cairns that mark the burial places and with a light wind rustling through the buffalo grass still haunts me today.

Reb

 

[damian]

The difference Reb is that the American West and all its wondrous mythology had a whole genre of movies to support it. Those countless forgotten now but much loved at the time Westerns certainly imprinted American history onto minds all around the world. The classics of the western genre are still much discussed and watched. Even Gone With The Wind though not really a war movie helped to sustain world wide interest in the ACW. My first toy soldiers were Britains Deetail ACW Union and Confederate Infantry. Zulu and Zulu Dawn were stand alone movies in a sense. The Sudan which also had a number of good movies "Four Feathers" and "Khartoum" is not nearly as popular as the AZW. I do not really follow Custer and the Little Big Horn but (and I stand to be corrected here) does not generate nearly as extensive a bibliography each year as the AZW. Even with toy soldiers the 7 th cavalry seem to be noticeable by their absence. The recent Black Hawk series has addressed this and there is much speculation as to whether another big manufcaturer is going to revisit that series soon.
I am not sure what the answer to the question is but I cannot complain as I do find the whole era fascinating.
Regards
Damian

 

[The Lt.]

For those of you who haven't visited the Rorke's Drift VC site the following I'm sure will shed some light on the history of the events that took place and the movie. Thanks to UKReb he brought to my attention the attached book by Sheldon Hall on the making of the Movie....The Lt.

www.rorkesdriftvc.com scrolling down to The Flim Zulu

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058777/quotes

 

[Spitfrnd]

...But it is without doubt that movies about these actions are the primary medium to be able to lift the stories out of those dusty pages that students of war love to study and bring an immediate awareness to a whole mass of ordinary people in just one visit to a cinema.
....

No doubt at all; another example is "The 300 Spartans" and "The 300". Here's to movies for making our respective favorite historical periods sufficiently popular to support a figures line.

Maybe Troy will ultimately do that.

 

[Saber]

That is too! Did you scratch build the house?

 

[UKReb]

The difference Reb is that the American West and all its wondrous mythology had a whole genre of movies to support it. Those countless forgotten now but much loved at the time Westerns certainly imprinted American history onto minds all around the world. The classics of the western genre are still much discussed and watched. Even Gone With The Wind though not really a war movie helped to sustain world wide interest in the ACW. My first toy soldiers were Britains Deetail ACW Union and Confederate Infantry. Zulu and Zulu Dawn were stand alone movies in a sense. The Sudan which also had a number of good movies "Four Feathers" and "Khartoum" is not nearly as popular as the AZW. I do not really follow Custer and the Little Big Horn but (and I stand to be corrected here) does not generate nearly as extensive a bibliography each year as the AZW. Even with toy soldiers the 7 th cavalry seem to be noticeable by their absence. The recent Black Hawk series has addressed this and there is much speculation as to whether another big manufcaturer is going to revisit that series soon.
I am not sure what the answer to the question is but I cannot complain as I do find the whole era fascinating.
Regards
Damian

So Damian I am assuming you are stating with the above comment that you believe that without the two Zulu films collecting AZW figures would be just as popular and prolific as they are today because that I believe was Scott's question unless I've got it wrong but we are on Mike's thread of a Zulu dio with AZW figures.

Those two films cemented that war/fight firmly in the sub-conscience of movie-goers which in turn prompted people to read more about it which then led collectors to put together a collection of figures depicting the era, particularly Rorke's Drift, when they first appeared on the market. I am pretty sure that the movie Zulu was the catalyst for everyone's including TS manufacturers solid interest in this era rather than just a history book. You say they were stand alone films but there have been a few Zulu movies well before these epics. One was a 1955 film called Untamed starring Tyrone Power and Susan Hayward that I remember had bags of Zulu action in it-true it was versus the Boers rather than the men of Harlech-but who remembers that movie now? it had no lasting impact as Zulu did and still has.

I have no idea why the Sudan soldiers are not collected more, personally I find that whole Jihad story somewhat boring-loss of Khartoum and death of Gordon followed 10 years later Kitchener decides to re-capture it via Omdurman. And obviously TS manufacturers today must think along the same lines as very few have manufactured them as a new series and I dont believe for one moment that the film Khartoum had the same impact on the public as Zulu-and Four Feathers yes a good movie but pure fiction.

In the last 15 years there have to my knowledge been 117 books written on the Custer fight (I have most of them) but I have no idea how many have been written on the AZW as a comparator so I cannot argue with your statement. Why no series of figures on Custer and his men? well there have been quite a few but how would you discern between the 7th Cavalry and the thousands of lead/plastic Cavalry and Indian figures that have been primarily children's playthings for over 50 years now and maybe the Wild West just like the Western movie really has had it's day as far as serious collectors are concerned? Once again I dont know!

But like the collectors of AZW here on the forum and yourself I too am fascinated with this particular era and if not for my ACW pash and with a bigger bank-roll I would most definitely immerse myself in a personal collection of Zulus & Co.

Reb

 

[damian]

So Damian I am assuming you are stating with the above comment that you believe that without the two Zulu films collecting AZW figures would be just as popular and prolific as they are today because that I believe was Scott's question unless I've got it wrong but we are on Mike's thread of a Zulu dio with AZW figures.

Those two films cemented that war/fight firmly in the sub-conscience of movie-goers which in turn prompted people to read more about it which then led collectors to put together a collection of figures depicting the era, particularly Rorke's Drift, when they first appeared on the market. I am pretty sure that the movie Zulu was the catalyst for everyone's including TS manufacturers solid interest in this era rather than just a history book. You say they were stand alone films but there have been a few Zulu movies well before these epics. One was a 1955 film called Untamed starring Tyrone Power and Susan Hayward that I remember had bags of Zulu action in it-true it was versus the Boers rather than the men of Harlech-but who remembers that movie now? it had no lasting impact as Zulu did and still has.

I have no idea why the Sudan soldiers are not collected more, personally I find that whole Jihad story somewhat boring-loss of Khartoum and death of Gordon followed 10 years later Kitchener decides to re-capture it via Omdurman. And obviously TS manufacturers today must think along the same lines as very few have manufactured them as a new series and I dont believe for one moment that the film Khartoum had the same impact on the public as Zulu-and Four Feathers yes a good movie but pure fiction.

In the last 15 years there have to my knowledge been 117 books written on the Custer fight (I have most of them) but I have no idea how many have been written on the AZW as a comparator so I cannot argue with your statement. Why no series of figures on Custer and his men? well there have been quite a few but how would you discern between the 7th Cavalry and the thousands of lead/plastic Cavalry and Indian figures that have been primarily children's playthings for over 50 years now and maybe the Wild West just like the Western movie really has had it's day as far as serious collectors are concerned? Once again I dont know!

But like the collectors of AZW here on the forum and yourself I too am fascinated with this particular era and if not for my ACW pash and with a bigger bank-roll I would most definitely immerse myself in a personal collection of Zulus & Co.

Reb

Reb
I think you are correct in stating that it was Zulu and Zulu Dawn that pushed the AZW into collectors' consciousness. I must say that I am grateful whatever caused the intense interest that the passion for the AZW is there and is so widespread as it is. Most of us in my part of the world have a very advanced sense of cultural inferiority so to discover that a bit of local history is so passionately loved and discussed by people all over the world has been a wonderful discovery for me.
Regards
Damian

 

[marco55]

Just to stick my 2 cents in,has anyone seen Son Of The Morning Star.It was made around 93 and I think one of the more balanced views about the Custer saga.
Mark

 

[UKReb]

Just to stick my 2 cents in,has anyone seen Son Of The Morning Star.It was made around 93 and I think one of the more balanced views about the Custer saga.
Mark

Mark

Fully agree! out of the -I believe- 52 movies that have covered the Big Horn fight that TV production has been the closest to what they believe happened on the greasy grass.
But I think the definitive Custer movie still has to be filmed.

 

[marco55]

I hope so Reb,we haven't had a really good historical film in awhile.
Mark

 

[1879fanatic]

Reb
I think you are correct in stating that it was Zulu and Zulu Dawn that pushed the AZW into collectors' consciousness. I must say that I am grateful whatever caused the intense interest that the passion for the AZW is there and is so widespread as it is. Most of us in my part of the world have a very advanced sense of cultural inferiority so to discover that a bit of local history is so passionately loved and discussed by people all over the world has been a wonderful discovery for me.
Regards
Damian

Damian,
I don't know where the perceived inferiority, especially cultural, is derived from. The South African story has always been sort of like the American West, but with a more refined English overtone, though the Boer was not as refined. The Boer was more equated to a land trek of the Mayflower pilgrims. All quite romantic and glamorous, I assure you. Fiercely independent cultures are always tops in my book! Mike

 

[damian]

Damian,
I don't know where the perceived inferiority, especially cultural, is derived from. The South African story has always been sort of like the American West, but with a more refined English overtone, though the Boer was not as refined. The Boer was more equated to a land trek of the Mayflower pilgrims. All quite romantic and glamorous, I assure you. Fiercely independent cultures are always tops in my book! Mike

Mike
It is nice of you to say that. However we are rather remote from the rest of the world. This was exacerbated by 40 years of self imposed exile during apartheid when we tried to go backwards into the 18 th century whilst the rest of the world was going forwards into the 20 th. Most bands only visit here when they are are on their last legs and are hoping to cash in on one last tour.
Regards
Damian