Russian Style vs. English Style? (1 Viewer)

Lo1863

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Not sure how to post this question but I will try my best. There seems to be two major styles of toy soldier making for matt finnish, those being called "Russian" and I guess the others a more "English/American" style. Britains vs First Legion is a great example of this. I was wondering how these styles came to be or if there is a site somewhere out there that goes into the history behind them? The visible differences are very evident. It seems that Russian style soldiers are always more expensive and are more "life-like". Can someone give me some history/background on this subject? Thanks so much!!

Also your opinions on both and how they work for you is welcome. :)
 
I don't think there are "Russian" or "English" styles of matt painting, all matt painting in the toy soldier industry was inspired by Russian style connoissuer figures. Prior to 1995, the only matt painted figures available were very expensive connoissuer figures, and all toy soldiers commonly available were glossy. Andy Neilson of King & Country saw the opportunity to make matt figures more affordable, creating a hybrid between toy soldiers and matt connoissuer figures with the release of his Arnhem series in September, 1995. This innovation may have been inspired in part by the actions of a couple of smaller makers like John Lesinski and HM of Great Britain, which did some limited production about this time in matt as well.

At the time, the matt figures produced in fairly large quantity as opposed to cottage industry levels of production by K&C, and, simultaeously or shortly thereafter, by another Hong Kong firm, Frontline, were not well received in the hobby, because (1) toy soldiers were supposed to be glossy and (2) they were made in China, by a company based in Hong Kong, and everyone knew that toy soldiers were made in Great Britain, while connoissuer figures were made in Great Britain (Chas. Stadden) or Russia (Aeroart). However, with the advent of polystone vehicles (another K&C innovation) which were far more affordable to produce and sell than die cast metal or museum quality wood vehicles, the matt figures caught on in a big way right around 1999 (aroung the time of the release of the D-Day series by K&C, which (fortuitously or otherwise) coincided with the release of the movie "Saving Private Ryan" by Steven Spielberg).

When the secondary market took off, demonstrating to manufacturers that collectors were willing to spend hundreds of dollars for single sets or vehicles, a few companies got the idea of taking toy soldiers even closer to the untra-realistic modelers approach to the hobby for vehicles (Figarti and Honour Bound), or the still far more expensive connoissuer approach championed by companies like Aeroart for figures (First Legion), raising the prices of vehicles from around $100 to around $200-300 and the price of figures from around $20 to around $50-75 for greater realism in sculpting and painting.

These new companies are closer to, but still not at the level of realism provided by the top Russian studios for their connoisseur figures, at a price somewhere between the price of more traditional toy soldiers and the very expensive connoissuer offerings. This provides yet another level of choice for the collector: Traditional Glossy toy soldiers (Little Legion, Imperial, Yeomanry, Tradition, Britains), matt toy soldiers (King & Country, John Jenkins Designs, Britains, Frontline, Collectors Showcase), semi-connoissuer vehicles (Figarti, John Jenkins Designs, First Legion), semi-connsoisseur figures (First Legion, St. George Cross) and full-fledged connoisseur figures (Aeroart and the other Russian studios), with each level having its own distinct price point for the average vehicle or figure.

It is this greater choice in quality and price which leads me to call this the "Golden Age" of Toy Soldier collecting. Having started collecting at a time when there really were only two choices, traditional glossy and expensive connoissuer, these added levels of quality and pricing make the hobby far more interesting to me.
 
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Agreed with you about the Golden Age, Louis, more companies established in the recentl years and producing different periods of toy soldiers as we can see. I just have a question for some time that how to attract more new collectors to this hobby as I am aware that most of the collectors nowadays are not young people. Sorry not an offence to those their mind are still young. Some companies made only 100 limited edition or 300 at most. That means they aims at only 100 to 300 collectors all over the world at this point of time. Even the biggest one produced 250 to 750 limited edition. Still they aimed at few hundred collectors more.

In my thought if only the current level of collectors still interested in buying toy soldiers in all forms (from $40 - $100 per each foot figure), and less new younger collectors coming to this hobby, the Golden Age may not prosperous in the next say 5-8 years. At that time once some companies owners retired, not enough collectors to purchase new items for some reasons say increased prices, retired....etc. Demand less and so supply may fall. The secondary market like ebay may still attracting some speculators and genuine buyers to complete the item but without new comers to this hobby I still afraid this hobby will decline.

Please do not think I am opposing any companies but I just worry about this hobby that I am indulged for so long.

Hon
 
I just have a question for some time that how to attract more new collectors to this hobby as I am aware that most of the collectors nowadays are not young people. Sorry not an offence to those their mind are still young.

I'm 24. ^&grin
 
I don't think there are "Russian" or "English" styles of matt painting, all matt painting in the toy soldier industry was inspired by Russian style connoissuer figures. Prior to 1995, the only matt painted figures available were very expensive connoissuer figures, and all toy soldiers commonly available were glossy. Andy Neilson of King & Country saw the opportunity to make matt figures more affordable, creating a hybrid between toy soldiers and matt connoissuer figures with the release of his Arnhem series in September, 1995. This innovation may have been inspired in part by the actions of a couple of smaller makers like John Lesinski and HM of Great Britain, which did some limited production about this time in matt as well.

At the time, the matt figures produced in fairly large quantity as opposed to cottage industry levels of production by K&C, and, simultaeously or shortly thereafter, by another Hong Kong firm, Frontline, were not well received in the hobby, because (1) toy soldiers were supposed to be glossy and (2) they were made in China, by a company based in Hong Kong, and everyone knew that toy soldiers were made in Great Britain, while connoissuer figures were made in Great Britain (Chas. Stadden) or Russia (Aeroart). However, with the advent of polystone vehicles (another K&C innovation) which were far more affordable to produce and sell than die cast metal or museum quality wood vehicles, the matt figures caught on in a big way right around 1999 (aroung the time of the release of the D-Day series by K&C, which (fortuitously or otherwise) coincided with the release of the movie "Saving Private Ryan" by Steven Spielberg).

When the secondary market took off, demonstrating to manufacturers that collectors were willing to spend hundreds of dollars for single sets or vehicles, a few companies got the idea of taking toy soldiers even closer to the untra-realistic modelers approach to the hobby for vehicles (Figarti and Honour Bound), or the still far more expensive connoissuer approach championed by companies like Aeroart for figures (First Legion), raising the prices of vehicles from around $100 to around $200-300 and the price of figures from around $20 to around $50-75 for greater realism in sculpting and painting.

These new companies are closer to, but still not at the level of realism provided by the top Russian studios for their connoisseur figures, at a price somewhere between the price of more traditional toy soldiers and the very expensive connoissuer offerings. This provides yet another level of choice for the collector: Traditional Glossy toy soldiers (Little Legion, Imperial, Yeomanry, Tradition, Britains), matt toy soldiers (King & Country, John Jenkins Designs, Britains, Frontline, Collectors Showcase), semi-connoissuer vehicles (Figarti, John Jenkins Designs, First Legion), semi-connsoisseur figures (First Legion, St. George Cross) and full-fledged connoisseur figures (Aeroart and the other Russian studios), with each level having its own distinct price point for the average vehicle or figure.

It is this greater choice in quality and price which leads me to call this the "Golden Age" of Toy Soldier collecting. Having started collecting at a time when there really were only two choices, traditional glossy and expensive connoissuer, these added levels of quality and pricing make the hobby far more interesting to me.
Your knowledge of TS and Firms is amazing...Elect trains ..Hornby..Triang...not mentioning the much more expensive Germany Trains has seemed to have gone the way of the traditional TS....ie....made in China....Elect trains were never cheap, but you could struggle along and get a few bit and piece's now and again....now $1000 gets you nix...is this the future of TS......with the advent of computers that produce perfect 3 D model figures....cheaper plastic injected figures....rising metal costs and the decline of interest by the younger generation.....what does the future hold for the trad TS collectors......I dont see any immediate problems...but...is the hobby going to slowly fade away or blow out to be a ...richmans hobby only........what are your thoughts on this ?...TomB
 
Actually, along with the style best typified by Russian connoisseur figures, there is another matte style, which many of you collect, or rather, you collect their descendants. That's the so-called Chinese style. Details are much simpler, more toy-like, than with the Russian pieces, generally speaking. The earliest and most typical example of this style is the style used by King-White/Reeves. That style was carried forward and further developed most notably by King & Country and Frontline.

I do think that the term "Russian style" has currency in the hobby, that is, I think it's a term that most collectors would recognize and of which they would have the same image in mind. I don't think anyone has identified a distinct "English style", however, and again, I apply the yardstick of a term's currency in publications, both online and hardcopy, to reflect how many collectors use the term.

Dimestore collectors might argue that their favorites typify an "American style"--look at Barclay and Manoil--and O'Brien made a reference to a uniquely American look, compared to contemporary toy soldiers like Britains and Johilco, but I don't think the term ever really took hold in the broader hobby.

Prost!
Brad
 
These new companies are closer to, but still not at the level of realism provided by the top Russian studios for their connoisseur figures, at a price somewhere between the price of more traditional toy soldiers and the very expensive connoissuer offerings. This provides yet another level of choice for the collector: Traditional Glossy toy soldiers (Little Legion, Imperial, Yeomanry, Tradition, Britains), matt toy soldiers (King & Country, John Jenkins Designs, Britains, Frontline, Collectors Showcase), semi-connoissuer vehicles (Figarti, John Jenkins Designs, First Legion), semi-connsoisseur figures (First Legion, St. George Cross) and full-fledged connoisseur figures (Aeroart and the other Russian studios), with each level having its own distinct price point for the average vehicle or figure.

It is this greater choice in quality and price which leads me to call this the "Golden Age" of Toy Soldier collecting. Having started collecting at a time when there really were only two choices, traditional glossy and expensive connoissuer, these added levels of quality and pricing make the hobby far more interesting to me.[/QUOTE]


Thank you for your very interesting post, it teaches us a lot.

The choice depends on money and on use: ex. I would not buy "connaisseur" figures (1) because they are too expensive to me and (2) because I usually use them to make dios and the russian figures are "unique"; you can' t make an army or group with them as I think they are conceived to stay each one by itself. And to make a dio, the extreem searching for details is not so important to me as what counts is the attitude and shape of the figure more than the slightest detail in it, it is important they work well and naturally with each other....
 
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To me the English Style is gloss (gossy Britains, Trophy, Little Legion, Fusilier/T. Atkins, Imperial). The Russian style: FL and Connoisseur figures. The Chinese/Hong Kong style: K&C, Frontline, John Jenkins, Figarti, Britains matte.
Personally I prefer the 1st two, but own some and enjoy a lot of pieces part of the Chinese style.


Paulo
 
I think this sums it up well.
Mitch

To me the English Style is gloss (gossy Britains, Trophy, Little Legion, Fusilier/T. Atkins, Imperial). The Russian style: FL and Connoisseur figures. The Chinese/Hong Kong style: K&C, Frontline, John Jenkins, Figarti, Britains matte.
Personally I prefer the 1st two, but own some and enjoy a lot of pieces part of the Chinese style.


Paulo
 

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