Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding? (1 Viewer)

[Tiger.Hunter]

I recently ordered my first First Legion armor piece along with a K&C armor piece from a major hobby e-tailer. They kindly gave me this warning:

We would not use these [First Legion products] with existing King & Country, Collectors Showcase and Figarti Collections. The reason is that these figures and vehicles are noticeably bigger and the First Legion are smaller in size.

This is pretty strong advice since the seller was likely to be reducing my purchase by half. And they are a First Legion retailer too. So why the warning? A) I have to think that they have had significant customer dissatisfaction and costly returns. B) They must be making a truthful clarification that heads off more costly returns and ticked off customers.

I didnt have to dig far before I found that First Legion has a whole PAGE on scale and relative size, which is fairly defensive in tone and reads like something drafted by PR and Legal -- not the designers or artists.

It says:
All of our painted figure ranges are 60mm or true 1/30th in scale. Please note that we have changed our descriptions from 54mm to 60mm simply because it more accurately describes the actual size of the figures. We have not changed the size of the figures, only the classifications!

Ahem. That smells like a not-so-small attempt at reality distortion. Why, exactly, would they NOT have known the correct scale up front? Is this competitive marketing spin trying to make up for a product design problem? Clearly having First Legion NOT able to mix and match with other true 1:30 products like Figarti and K&C would be a deal breaker for many collectors.

My trusted professional source continues to say:
We recommend First Legion WWII as a unique collection, and not one we would mix and match. We are just concerned that VEH005 may not fit in with the scale you collect.

As a 1/30th-only collector, I DON'T want a "unique" new size, and I suspect most collectors don't either. I categorically just DON'T BUY 1:32, much less 1:31!

However, I have not personally compared the two types of vehicles, though the few First Legion figures I have DO appear to be a bit shorter and thinner.

So what do the Toy Soldier Forum Experts have to say? Have you have done a good comparison of First Legion vs. other well matched 1/30 such as King and Country, Figarti and Collectors Showcase? Discerning collectors want to know!

Hunter
A 1:30th (only!) Collector
NOT a competitor or industry insider

 

[bradleyl30]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

This has been hashed and rehashed on this forum and there are many opinions about this.

I would concur that they are different sizes. I had a conversation with Matt about this over at First Legion about it and they use lighter materials which means that you actually find their products to be more accurate from a scale perspective (i.e. they don't have bulk up certain aspects to keep them from breaking.)

Many people like mixing the First Legion figures with the larger vehicles of the other manufacturers as they actually seem to work better from a true human to vehicle proportion. (I love my FL soldaten with the K&C "Hanomag.")

TCS tried to deal with this issue by making even larger vehicles to get the proportions right with the expected mixed response from people loving the idea to hating the idea.

Several members have done exhaustive measuring finding many of the K&C figures actually being 1/28 and other varieties.

In the end it will come down to personal taste.

I have found mixing some groups work and others don't.

Some K&C vehicles (older DAK and "classic" German vehicles) go great with First Legion Stalingrad figures.

A lot of Naps & ACW mix well.

TCS vehicles and First Legion troops go well.

Some TGM vehicles and even some figures go OK with FL figures.

I personally am moving more and more of my collecting to First Legion, especially when it comes to figures. Also vehicles, when I can afford them! They are expensive.

These are all my opinions and experience. Several esteemed members have done some exhaustive measuring as I have said, and they will weigh in I hope.

Larry

 

[Vezzolf]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

CS is 1:28th scale for both their figures and their AFV's....K/C is 1:28th for figures but their AFV's are 1:30th.....Therefore, CS figures and K/C figures both 1:28th scale match up best with CS AFV's which are 1:28th....First Legion 1:30th matches up very well with Figarti's 1:30th AFV's.....So if you want 1:30th scale consistency go with First Legion and Figarti they are 1:30th{sm4}

 

[Tiger.Hunter]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

Larry -

Thanks a bunch! I'm new to collecting and this is really helpful.

Hunter

This has been hashed and rehashed on this forum and there are many opinions about this.

I would concur that they are different sizes. I had a conversation with Matt about this over at First Legion about it and they use lighter materials which means that you actually find their products to be more accurate from a scale perspective (i.e. they don't have bulk up certain aspects to keep them from breaking.)

Many people like mixing the First Legion figures with the larger vehicles of the other manufacturers as they actually seem to work better from a true human to vehicle proportion. (I love my FL soldaten with the K&C "Hanomag.")

TCS tried to deal with this issue by making even larger vehicles to get the proportions right with the expected mixed response from people loving the idea to hating the idea.

Several members have done exhaustive measuring finding many of the K&C figures actually being 1/28 and other varieties.

In the end it will come down to personal taste.

I have found mixing some groups work and others don't.

Some K&C vehicles (older DAK and "classic" German vehicles) go great with First Legion Stalingrad figures.

A lot of Naps & ACW mix well.

TCS vehicles and First Legion troops go well.

Some TGM vehicles and even some figures go OK with FL figures.

I personally am moving more and more of my collecting to First Legion, especially when it comes to figures. Also vehicles, when I can afford them! They are expensive.

These are all my opinions and experience. Several esteemed members have done some exhaustive measuring as I have said, and they will weigh in I hope.

Larry

 

[Blowtorch]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

My trusted professional source continues to say:

You mentioned that you were an engineer on the deleted thread; what criteria did your source meet to make him trusted & professional?

And why are you ignoring the question I posed to you on the deleted thread and in private mail? Are you unwilling to answer, or unable?

 

[sammy719]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

After reading through your thread Tiger. hunter all it shows is that you had an agenda from the start with First legion with your comments towards that company, I as well would love to know the name of your dealer/seller who put out the "caution" when buying First Legion product, can you answer me that?? strange that you wouldn't post your question in the First legion section instead of the other 3 companies?? either way, it sure got alot of discussion...Sammy

 

[The Military Workshop]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

After reading through your thread Tiger. hunter all it shows is that you had an agenda from the start with First legion with your comments towards that company, I as well would love to know the name of your dealer/seller who put out the "caution" when buying First Legion product, can you answer me that?? strange that you wouldn't post your question in the First legion section instead of the other 3 companies?? either way, it sure got alot of discussion...Sammy

Sammy,

As a dealer I think you are reading too much into the "caution" by whoever the dealer was in this case.

I dont sell FL as you know but I do give similar cautions to mail order buyers if they order two items, AFV's or figures, from different brands that I think dont match in size or style. In some cases they heed my advice and others they don't.

The dealer in this case is merely pointing out a possible size difference that the buyer may not be aware of. I would say he is being a good dealer in doing so and it should not be taken as a negative comment by the dealer on FL product. In fact if the order was for a K&C vehicle and FL vehicle would that not be worth more to the dealer than when the buyer bought the Figarti instead ? I think the dealer was thinking in the interests of the buyer and his future relationship with him. Compatability seems to be an important factor for Hunter.

Regards
Brett

 

[Vezzolf]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

After reading through your thread Tiger. hunter all it shows is that you had an agenda from the start with First legion with your comments towards that company, I as well would love to know the name of your dealer/seller who put out the "caution" when buying First Legion product, can you answer me that?? strange that you wouldn't post your question in the First legion section instead of the other 3 companies?? either way, it sure got alot of discussion...Sammy

Well said Sammy....and while I agree that a dealer should do his best to HONESTLY help customers with questions concerning figure compatibility between different manufacturers......I also question the motives and people behind that thread. It sure did get alot of discussion.

 

[OzDigger]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

Sam and Neil, I have no idea who Tiger.Hunter is, or what his motives are, but neither do you guys.

Personally I think it would have been better that he posted his thread in one section of the forum rather than several, but maybe he's not used to how forums operate. I recall that Sam started a thread in the King and Country section of the forum that was more suited to the General Toy Soldier Section of the forum. That thread soon got out of control and I will admit that I had strong suspicions why Sam posted the thread there and I said some things I should not have, not the first time, but who's perfect. But that's all in the past as far as I'm concerned. It should be patently obvious to most that FL does not match some other makes. That doesn't make it better nor worse as every member has their own personal opinion of what they like and what's best for their collection. Please, let's just give the new guy a fair opportunity on the forum.

 

[Rob]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

There is so much garbage written about this subject that I felt I had to post on this.

Some people mix all sorts of producers figures and enjoy doing it. Some do not. I don't mix my WW2 very much (with a couple of TG exceptions) but admire people who blend together producers to great affect. (someone wrote to me a few weeks back to tell me that one of the more two faced FL collectors is claiming elsewhere this means I am exhibiting double standards!:rolleyes2:total garbage) again I DON'T mix WW2 much but ADMIRE those who DO. Hope the collector in question can take this on board now as its nice and clear.

I hope to mix Britain's, K&C, FL and Collectors showcase figures in an American Civil War collection that is just getting off the ground.

Hunter I would just suggest that if you'd titled your thread ' Do they mix' ' do they work together' may have been better as to use the word avoid will possibly irk some folk .

Best

Rob

 

[OzDigger]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

Sam and Neil? Can't recall, maybe should have said Sammy and Frank (Vezzolf).

 

[thebritfarmer]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

LEts not turn this thread into a witch hunt guys. You sure to know to welcome a fellow !!

 

[Mitch]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

One man's garbage is another man's banquet!!
Mitch

There is so much garbage written about this subject that I felt I had to post on this.

Some people mix all sorts of producers figures and enjoy doing it. Some do not. I don't mix my WW2 very much (with a couple of TG exceptions) but admire people who blend together producers to great affect. (someone wrote to me a few weeks back to tell me that one of the more two faced FL collectors is claiming elsewhere this means I am exhibiting double standards!:rolleyes2:total garbage) again I DON'T mix WW2 much but ADMIRE those who DO. Hope the collector in question can take this on board now as its nice and clear.

I hope to mix Britain's, K&C, FL and Collectors showcase figures in an American Civil War collection that is just getting off the ground.

Hunter I would just suggest that if you'd titled your thread ' Do they mix' ' do they work together' may have been better as to use the word avoid will possibly irk some folk .

Best

Rob

 

[sammy719]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

Sammy,

As a dealer I think you are reading too much into the "caution" by whoever the dealer was in this case.

I dont sell FL as you know but I do give similar cautions to mail order buyers if they order two items, AFV's or figures, from different brands that I think dont match in size or style. In some cases they heed my advice and others they don't.

The dealer in this case is merely pointing out a possible size difference that the buyer may not be aware of. I would say he is being a good dealer in doing so and it should not be taken as a negative comment by the dealer on FL product. In fact if the order was for a K&C vehicle and FL vehicle would that not be worth more to the dealer than when the buyer bought the Figarti instead ? I think the dealer was thinking in the interests of the buyer and his future relationship with him. Compatability seems to be an important factor for Hunter.

Regards
Brett

Sorry Brett, if this was a reverse situation and it was K&C being called out for supposedly mislead info/ etc.. as stated in his (tiger hunter) original thread you would have had a 6 page response to it, I'm not going to beat a dead horse to death or get a infractions or in a pissing contest, I'll just leave it as I have my opinions on this topic and you have yours...Sammy

 

[sammy719]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

I do apologise to Brian and collectors showcase as this thread originally started out asking a question towards CS and has gone in to a totally different direction, sorry bout that Brian...Sammy

 

[The Military Workshop]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

Sorry Brett, if this was a reverse situation and it was K&C being called out for supposedly mislead info/ etc.. as stated in his (tiger hunter) original thread you would have had a 6 page response to it, I'm not going to beat a dead horse to death or get a infractions or in a pissing contest, I'll just leave it as I have my opinions on this topic and you have yours...Sammy

Sammy,
My comment was on the behaviour of the dealer who some seem to think has acted inappropriately by pointing out size differences.

When you mention consider the reverse situation and K&C was being called out for "supposedly mislead info/ etc.. ". So the comparison you mention would be something like if K&C :

a) packed its product in boxes which clearly say 54mm and later said they were 60mm on its web page
and b) there were photographs (and K&C collector comments) clearly showing figures from different series were different scales and Andy had pretty much conceded the point..

Well in that case I would have difficulty trying to support the view that all K&C figures were 1/30 scale. But then again I have never repeatedly tried to convince people that they are so I would have no need for a 6 page response.

Hope that helps explain my view.

Regards
Brett

 

[sammy719]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

I do apologise to Brian and collectors showcase as this thread originally started out asking a question towards CS and has gone in to a totally different direction, sorry bout that Brian...Sammy

Again Brian sorry for the hi-jacking...Sammy

 

[mr colt 45]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

I have just finished a ACW dio and I mixed Britains, K&C, CS and Fl togethed all mixed into a firing line. I fell that they go together very well together. I really can not see a differance. I do not do WWII dios with vehicles so I could not give any advice. Except good collecting. "Mr Colt 45"

 

[Rob]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

I have just finished a ACW dio and I mixed Britains, K&C, CS and Fl togethed all mixed into a firing line. I fell that they go together very well together. I really can not see a differance. I do not do WWII dios with vehicles so I could not give any advice. Except good collecting. "Mr Colt 45"

Well well, what an excellent post Mr Colt 45. We are always being told you cannot mix them, but you know better as you have actually done it. Thanks for posting this, it gives me encouragement for my fledgling project:salute::

Rob

 

[mr colt 45]

Re: Should CS & 1:30th collectors avoid First Legion? Mismatch or misunderstanding?

Rob: I fell all those figures go together. This is My personnel opinion. Some of our fellow collectors may not fell the same way. I am some what new to the hobby about a year now in to 54mm. But as a child I was big into Marx and HO scale moden railroading. Again good collecting and I hope it all works out for everyone. "Mr Colt 45":smile2::smile2::smile2: