So, the "Barbarians" (1 Viewer)

One more thought on bare-chestedness: I understand the Germans took their clothes off in the rain, because it was bad enough fighting barechested/naked and better than freezing because the wet wool of your shirt would not dry, but suck the warmth out of your body and restrict your movement.
 
Andanna said:
One more thought on bare-chestedness: I understand the Germans took their clothes off in the rain, because it was bad enough fighting barechested/naked and better than freezing because the wet wool of your shirt would not dry, but suck the warmth out of your body and restrict your movement.
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that's very interesting.
 
Love this thread....{sm4}

I do admire the barbarians+ Celtics Sarmatians and all those barbarians who fought the Romans, BUT; this famous battle ("Battle of the Teutoburger Forrest) was a huge mistake made by the Romans, mistake that in normally they will not make on the regular bases.
Arminius (Herman) was a in the Roman Army and he knows everything about Roman Army procedures Plus on that day Varus made many strategic errors, for example: he did not sent any reconnaissance patrol to verify the path-road, they march in a narrow corridor that sometimes could not handle more than two legionnaires at the time, they wasn’t march in Battle formation and brought many non combatants with them, it was a raining day with causes mud and heavy conditions for fast moving so the Germans attack with cavalry and heavy weaponry like long javelots, chariots etc...
 
I really thing the whole affair was a misnomer to be called "battle"- ambush in Teutoburg is more realistic though it did go on for a few days. Massive mistakes made by Varus no doubt, failed to remain vigilant.
 
The debate whether Varus made mistakes or not can go on forever. It is fact that he was very experienced and successful in other assignments of similar nature.

Further, Varus did rely heavily on reconnaissance and had a Roman noble who did not only know the people of the area, but also the best and shortest ways to the next camp: arminius who also had shown his valor and trustworthiness as a leader of the auxiliary in other battles which elevated him to the level of an officer and knight. Varus for all he knew had nothing to worry about.

In addition, the territory was considered friendly and no Germanic tribe had the power or the weaponry to pose a real threat to the roman army. There had not been any major battles in Germanica. People just did not care that much about roman occupation. Varus for all he knew had nothing to worry about. ^&grin
 
OK, I cannot let this one go: "Errare humanus est.". :rolleyes2:
 
This is a bit off the direction of the topic, but I was lucky enough recently to acquire some very nice Barbarians by another manufacturer. Is it appropriate to post the pics in this thread even if they are not FL? (I recently posted a pic of another manufacturer's version of Boudicca in the FL thread but I wasn't sure if that was appropriate, but went ahead and did it because FL's "style" of miniature in general is similar to that of the other producer. Plus I was making my case in the hopes that FL might make a version of Boudicca too.) In any case, I'm excited to see FL's Barbarians and Romans, and would like to share pics of some of my figures. Perhaps the connoisseur thread on page 2 is the better location? Looking forward to the pre-sale and hopeful that a few Barbarians might be included in the initial release.
 
Guys we are assuming that the Romans and Barbarians will cost the same :wink2: as no prices have yet been given I'm guessing they wont . Just food for thought . Regards Gebhard
 
Currahee Chris said:
I think you guys are completely missing the point of my initial post, which, I had a feeling would happen given that it was as long as it was so my bad there.

I am not naive regarding the abilities of the Roman enemies, I am in fact, rather well informed, I do believe a lot of assumptions are being made behind my post which simply are not there.

Anyway, this might help illustrate my position a bit better- recall in the movie Gladiator in the initial scene- for all that movie's issues with accuracy, I feel they nailed the Germanic tribes so far as I imagine them. Now, I am assuming many collectors here have seen the flick and recall how dingy, grubby, etc the Germans appeared in that conflict?? They did in fact show them in outfits that were probably somewhat colorful at one time though the rigors of their lifestyle led to the deterioration of the fabric and muting of the colors so they were rather drab when massed in combat. The point being, if we take those barbarians to be historically accurate- would you as a collector be willing to shovel out $50 or so for a grubby Germanic tribesman covered in bearskin or fur?? That was the point of my thread- looking at the challenge, as I see it anyway, for manufacturers to release historically accurate "barbarians" at prices comparable to the cleaner, crisper looking legionaires- that's it. Over the years of collecting Roman ranges, their barbarian counterparts have been dressed out in very splendid and colorful outfits- an almost Napoleonic-era influence on what was rather a very rough and trying lifestyle for those men and women who lived it. I have always felt that the other major producers who gave us barbarians swayed more towards artistry and sacrificed historical accuracy to a degree to perhaps help sell their figures.
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Well Chris, I think this additional information does help clarify your original post. I own a blu-ray of Gladiator and watch it rather often. I would be quite happy with FL barbarians that looked like those you mention but I would hardly call them farmers with farming impliments; they seemed to be pretty well armed to me. So if that is your question, yes I would indeed buy those.

I am not so sure about the comment on wool. Wool actually retains its insulation value quite well when wet. Leather and other cloth does not.

I also can't agree with Alex (which is rare:)) that the FL Crusaders are the least bit dull. One reason I have had no interest in the Russian Knights is that so many of them are so unrealistically colorful. Each to his own of course.;)
 
Spitfrnd said:
Well Chris, I think this additional information does help clarify your original post. I own a blu-ray of Gladiator and watch it rather often. I would be quite happy with FL barbarians that looked like those you mention but I would hardly call them farmers with farming impliments; they seemed to be pretty well armed to me. So if that is your question, yes I would indeed buy those.
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Yes sir, there we have it. That was where I was going with this whole thread. Though, I have enjoyed the back and forth discussion. There seems to be a lot (not as the posters here represent) of collectors who view the Barbarians as backdrops to the Romans.
 
Gebhard said:
Guys we are assuming that the Romans and Barbarians will cost the same :wink2: as no prices have yet been given I'm guessing they wont . Just food for thought . Regards Gebhard
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I think it's a healthy assumption- all the Roman series from all the other major producers over the past decade are in the same ball park, if not dollar for dollar. Would FL be different?? I dunno as I haven't bought any of their sets yet. ^&confuse^&confuse
 
Currahee Chris said:
I think it's a healthy assumption- all the Roman series from all the other major producers over the past decade are in the same ball park, if not dollar for dollar. Would FL be different?? I dunno as I haven't bought any of their sets yet. ^&confuse^&confuse
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Hallo Chris ,
If I had any info about pricing I'd pass it on :wink2: I'm just going buy everything else they have done . Just go to their site and have a look within every line there are price differences some times as much as $10 or so , it all depends on the amount of work that goes into it , more equipment the more time the sculptor spent on it an the more time the painters have to spend on it .In this case I don't know what would be harder a uniform or the shading of the muscles and flesh ^&confuse Anyway all will be revealed when the pre-orders go up this week or next {sm4} .
Funny you say that most use the Barbarians as backdrops to the Romans , I think for me its equal or if anything maybe I favor Romes enemy I guess it all depends on which one we are talking about {eek3}.. regards Gebhard
 
Hello Gebhard-

thank you for the insight. I really wasn't sure if price variances within FL were normal- appears as if they are- which I believe could lend to better sales for the FL Barbarians.

When I was at the gettysburg show, Warrior had about a dozen or so mounted FL Naps figures charging in a group. All I kept seeing was Crimson red and scores of Germanic auxiliary cavalry charging over a hill. This line is going to be a lot of fun!! :D
 
Currahee Chris said:
Yes sir, there we have it. That was where I was going with this whole thread. Though, I have enjoyed the back and forth discussion. There seems to be a lot (not as the posters here represent) of collectors who view the Barbarians as backdrops to the Romans.
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They will be for me as well but certainly they are an important and necessary backdrop.:wink2::D
 
Andanna said:
Is that a quote from Varus?

{eek3} ^&grin
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Well no denying that Arminius won a decisive victory but then again, Rome certainly had its revenge and then some. In the end, besides shocking Rome, all it probably did was to underscore the logistical significance of the Rhine as a practical and cost effective boundry for that time. As for Varus, he is not the most sympathetic of Roman commanders.
 
Currahee Chris said:
Hello Gebhard-



When I was at the gettysburg show, Warrior had about a dozen or so mounted FL Naps figures charging in a group. All I kept seeing was Crimson red and scores of Germanic auxiliary cavalry charging over a hill. This line is going to be a lot of fun!! :D
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I'm with ya 100% this line has made me lose sleep for thinking of the possibilities :eek: , Man this is gonna be good . Sorry for the "Rah Rah " but if someone else was doing something at this level for this price i would be over there with my "Rah Rah " too .....Regards Gebhard
 
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