So................ (1 Viewer)

[Mitch]

Guy...

Otto Carius stated clearly in interview that his tank was not grey after citadel time frame. Terry and myself have been having quite a PM discussion since early yesterday about this tank and where it was when and what features it did or did not have.
Mitch

Here comes the rivet counter again.
If this Tiger is an early production Tiger 1, where are the Feifel air cleaners ? Can't see on the picture if the road wheels are rubber rimmed ( also a feature of an early Tiger). Without Feifel air cleaners one should place this Tiger in december 1943 or later. This is the picture that K&C based its model on View attachment 104193
the K& C tiger 213 could be used as the 213 belonging to Otto Carius( 502nd schw. panzer abt.) ( add Zimmerit on the cupola). His unit was equiped with Tiger 1's early and mid production types. He was commander of the 213 until the 20th of april 1944. Switched to the 217 when his own tank was damaged .
View attachment 104194
picture of the 213 /503th Schwere Panzer abteilung in Normandy during the German retreat
View attachment 104195
guy

 

[WW2]

Guy...

Otto Carius stated clearly in interview that his tank was not grey after citadel time frame. Terry and myself have been having quite a PM discussion since early yesterday about this tank and where it was when and what features it did or did not have.
Mitch

Mitch,

what were the conclusions??

^&grin

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Here is tank 123, a sister tank to 213 sometime between August 1942 and November 1942 before the introduction of track guards and feifel air filters in November 1942 and the introduction of tiger turret storage bins in January 1943. The tank has no track guards or mud flaps and has the Pz. III storage bin on the turret rear. The rear of the tank showing that a feifel has not been installed is not visible in the photo.



Here is a photo of 213 (the model) taken probably in Spring 1943 likely Ukraine south-west of Stalingrad. I think track guards have been installed but not the front mud flaps. The Pz. III bin has been replaced by a Tiger bin. And the feifel air filter system has likely been installed out of sight in the photo. The tank still looks to be all grey before a yellow or brown disruptive pattern was added.



Terry

 

[Mitch]

For me, if this was supposed to be Carius Tiger then as a selling point K&C would have stated this clearly. I was more concerned after reading the release statement that stated it was an actual tank of the 503rd at point X when in fact at that point they were not in russia in august 1942 they were in Dollersheim in Austria and were not transported to russian until december 21st beginning combat operations in jan 1943.

502nd and where they were is clearly stated in the literature but, it should be remembered they were amalgamated into the 503rd 16th jan 1943.

At this moment though I have a fair idea what its supposed to be and what it should have on or not I am unclear what unit K&C actually intended to depict here.

What would be a lot easier would be K&C to comment like they did on the Rommel figure that was questioned last month (though, this is compleytely different) on where he based his conclusions on. Then we can go from there.

Terry has just posted some pics but, again the turret bin is clearly not a Panzer III Ausf N one. I have references for that tank in the ukraine area also.
Mitch

Mitch,

what were the conclusions??

^&grin

 

[Phantom Warrior]

For me, if this was supposed to be Carius Tiger then as a selling point K&C would have stated this clearly. I was more concerned after reading the release statement that stated it was an actual tank of the 503rd at point X when in fact at that point they were not in russia in august 1942 they were in Dollersheim in Austria and were not transported to russian until december 21st beginning combat operations in jan 1943.

502nd and where they were is clearly stated in the literature but, it should be remembered they were amalgamated into the 503rd 16th jan 1943.

At this moment though I have a fair idea what its supposed to be and what it should have on or not I am unclear what unit K&C actually intended to depict here.

What would be a lot easier would be K&C to comment like they did on the Rommel figure that was questioned last month (though, this is compleytely different) on where he based his conclusions on. Then we can go from there.

Terry has just posted some pics but, again the turret bin is clearly not a Panzer III Ausf N one. I have references for that tank in the ukraine area also.
Mitch

The bins were introduced much earlier with the Ausf. H so their use on the early tigers is correct.

Terry

 

[WW2]

Mitch and Terry

thx for the info......

fascinating stuff indeed

wonder if KC will clarify this; even if not, its still a popular item am sure

 

[Mitch]

Terry..

My post should have ended ''not from a panzer III'' as in meaning it is clearly not a turret bin on that tiger from a panzer III on the second picture.
Mitch

The bins were introduced much earlier with the Ausf. H so their use on the early tigers is correct.

Terry

 

[Rob]

Mitch and Terry

thx for the info......

fascinating stuff indeed

wonder if KC will clarify this; even if not, its still a popular item am sure

From posts here and on the Dispatches thread it appears to be one of the most universally welcomed pieces of armour K&C have released, there is a very positive vibe about the Tiger already, looking forward to seeing it and any other surprises in Chicago

Rob

 

[WW2]

some #123 photos here....

 

[Phantom Warrior]

Terry..

My post should have ended ''not from a panzer III'' as in meaning it is clearly not a turret bin on that tiger from a panzer III on the second picture.
Mitch

It looks like a Pz. III bin to me. Perhaps it was altered a little to fit the Tiger.

Terry

 

[Mitch]

Terry...

Not so sure I would agree from that pic and have just found two others from this picture shot and, if it has come from a Panzer II its been so modified that its beyond Panzer III recognition and made to look like one from the Tigers!!
Mitch

It looks like a Pz. III bin to me. Perhaps it was altered a little to fit the Tiger.

Terry

 

[Phantom Warrior]

For those of us who have the K&C Snow Tiger - it's the same version as the new grey tiger but several months later.



Here is what it actually looked like in Spring(March - April 1943) SW of Stalingrad.



It is whitewashed entirely, has the track guards, tiger bin as on the model - but by the Spring (snow is melted) also has the new version feifel air system installed after March 1943. Probably didn't have one during the Winter. It even has the log on the right side of the tank.

Here is the crew of 111 sometime in January 1943

Zug 1 (Platoon 1)
Tank nr. 111 PzKpfw VI 'Tiger' (Jan 6 1942, company commanders tank)
Commander: Oberleutnant von Foerster (Dec 1942 – early 1943) (Jan 6 1943 - )transferred to 'Tiger' 101
Gunner: Pan Vogel (Jan 6 1943 - )
Driver: Unteroffizer Walter Martach (Jan 6 1943 - )
Radio: Dr. Franz-Wilhelm Lochmann (Jan 6 1943 - )
Loader: Wolfgang Speckin (Jan 6 1943 - )

Terry

 

[Rob]

For those of us who have the K&C Snow Tiger - it's the same version as the new grey tiger but several months later.

View attachment 104226

Here is what it actually looked like in Spring(March - April 1943) SW of Stalingrad.

View attachment 104232

It is whitewashed entirely, has the track guards, tiger bin as on the model - but by the Spring (snow is melted) also has the new version feifel air system installed after March 1943. Probably didn't have one during the Winter. It even has the log on the right side of the tank.

Here is the crew of 111 sometime in January 1943

Zug 1 (Platoon 1)
Tank nr. 111 PzKpfw VI 'Tiger' (Jan 6 1942, company commanders tank)
Commander: Oberleutnant von Foerster (Dec 1942 – early 1943) (Jan 6 1943 - )transferred to 'Tiger' 101
Gunner: Pan Vogel (Jan 6 1943 - )
Driver: Unteroffizer Walter Martach (Jan 6 1943 - )
Radio: Dr. Franz-Wilhelm Lochmann (Jan 6 1943 - )
Loader: Wolfgang Speckin (Jan 6 1943 - )

Terry

Thanks for posting this Terry, can't remember looking forward to a new German AFV as much as this one, it deserves a dio of its own me thinks:wink2:

Rob

 

[Rob]

Guys, imagine your next ' Grey ' dio. We have these two beauties on a dusty road somewhere in Russia, with (perhaps at some point) the Grey Opel's going by in large numbers, weary German troopers slog by the roadside where an officer near his Kubel discuss progress with others. What is missing from this scene???????

Motorbikes!:smile2:

Andy, don't like to bombard you with requests all the time mate wink2 but if at some point in the future you could give us a single and motorbike and sidecar in grey it would be very welcome indeed{bravo}}

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Thinking of doing one with Totenkopf AFV's and Troops (will repaint the collars of the newly released ones) driving down a tree lined road (already have four repainted blitz grey trucks) with the civillians they have already released streaming along the country roads.

Sounds interesting for sure. These will also work well (222 and early troops) with some of the FOB releases for the chase back to Dunkirk
Mitch

 

[Rob]

Thinking of doing one with Totenkopf AFV's and Troops (will repaint the collars of the newly released ones) driving down a tree lined road (already have four repainted blitz grey trucks) with the civillians they have already released streaming along the country roads.

Sounds interesting for sure. These will also work well (222 and early troops) with some of the FOB releases for the chase back to Dunkirk
Mitch

Sounds good Mitch, any ideas for the new Tiger I ?

Rob

 

[Mitch]

Rob...

I have been building a couple lately that would fit it well. I have bought the figarti crane so, I have built a work station for repairing tigers in a wooded area primarily for the repainted Tunisians I have but, it would work for the new one in some secluded russian wood.

The other one is a group of german engineers working to strengthen a rackity old bridge in russia so that it can take the weight of the tank. The pictures are of tanks from the 503rd on 21st February 1943 in which, two Tigers attacked Anastassijewka with some Panzer III's Its a great picture and, that would be good.
Mitch

Sounds good Mitch, any ideas for the new Tiger I ?

Rob

 

[Rob]

Rob...

I have been building a couple lately that would fit it well. I have bought the figarti crane so, I have built a work station for repairing tigers in a wooded area primarily for the repainted Tunisians I have but, it would work for the new one in some secluded russian wood.

The other one is a group of german engineers working to strengthen a rackity old bridge in russia so that it can take the weight of the tank. The pictures are of tanks from the 503rd on 21st February 1943 in which, two Tigers attacked Anastassijewka with some Panzer III's Its a great picture and, that would be good.
Mitch

They sound excellent ideas Mitch, I often think dio's behind the front line are just as good as ' in action ' scenes . Look forward to see which one you go for.

Rob

 

[fmethorst]

Here are a couple pics of 2nd Company Tigers from the 503rd (2./s.H.Pz.Abt.503) at the point of its initial deployment in the vicinity of Proletarskaja Dec 42 - Jan 43. The 503rd Tigers arrived in theatre without whitewash but as the picture of Tiger 213 shows it was later applied.

Frank

 

[DM101]

Guys, imagine your next ' Grey ' dio. We have these two beauties on a dusty road somewhere in Russia, with (perhaps at some point) the Grey Opel's going by in large numbers, weary German troopers slog by the roadside where an officer near his Kubel discuss progress with others. What is missing from this scene???????

Motorbikes!:smile2:

Andy, don't like to bombard you with requests all the time mate wink2 but if at some point in the future you could give us a single and motorbike and sidecar in grey it would be very welcome indeed{bravo}}

Rob

Does this captured T-34 match well with above Grey 222 and TIGER during this period ?